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SarDonik

Ye Shiwen

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MrsLexiK
I am definitely in the innocent until testing shows otherwise camp. And I loved that SMH piece linked above that gave a balanced objective view of her acheivement that compared her progress to other swimmers including Stephanie Rice in the last Olympics - Rice had a bigger improvement than Ye did and also broke records.

 

This is what the sticking point for me. I also read that Ye thought she was losing as she couldn't see anyone else and just gunned it home.

 

You can't compare Rice to Ye Shiwen. Rice comes from a country who has close to an impeccable record when it comes to swimming and drugs. Ye Shiwen comes from a country whose record is terrible. You would be justified in speculating on Ye Shiwens performance you would not be justified in speculating on Rices's performances. If Ye Shiwen came from any other country then sure, compare away. China is a completely different story. Throw in to the equation Ye Shiwens teammate was also banned for doping. In an ideal situation Ye Shiwen would be given the benefit of the doubt, but because of her countries record there is speculation, justifiably so.

 

No you can, you are basically saying that any athelet from China is guilty of dopping or a drug cheat until proven innocent. The world doesn't work like that. I think the fact that the American's have backed away from the statements made by there DH coach or ex coach or who ever he is now is telling. Also I haven't heard an actual athelet commentor say what the "journalist" commentators are saying. I am actually very proud of Grant Hackett (just saying that makes me :sick: )for sticking by and standing up for this poor girl. Innocent until proven guilty, it is not up to commentators to prove her guilty but the people that carry out the tests - if they feel they need to investigate they investigate.

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SarDonik

Innocent until proven guilty - yes that what it should be. But in the eyes of a very disillusioned public it's pretty easy to see how a swimmer from China that has just smashed the world record and has had her training partners banned for doping can be suspected of drug abuse. You cannot criticise someone for challenging her. It would be incredibly naive of a sports commentator or journalist not to mention doping.

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MummaDiva
And as far as I know it's out of your system pretty quickly and virtually undetectable?

 

There are a lot of different ways to improve performance using drugs - some of which can never be detected. It's pretty common knowledge that just before a big meet, marathon runners train at altitude to boost their performance - well, the same effect as training at altitude can be drawn from EPO et al. EPO is out of the system pretty fast, and, anyway, drugs can be masked by taking "vitamins" - Chinese herbal medicine is incredible at producing results of this style. And if an athletes thinks that they are going to be tested / caught, they will sometimes throw the race. Some athletes take in spare vials of pee.

 

Though, for the most part, I would say that the athletes themselves may not even be aware that they are being drugged. Could you imagine thinking that you were putting up world records, only to learn that you were in fact a drug cheat? How devastating would that be?

 

Do you remember the Australian pentathlete (?) that was done in for drug use after a round of fencing - he claimed to have had too much coffee + cold medicine. Which is quite likely - that's the kind of thing that "drug testing" picks up - anomolies and just weird-looking readings. Chronic, systematic and medically overseen drug taking is very very rarely picked up.

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maxim
Sorry - but she looks quite like a short, squat Chinese man to me in many pictures.

 

She 5'8", 4 inches above the average height of women in Australia and only 64kg. :rolleyes:

 

It's just became a tit for tat situation between the Chinese and the Americans. Really silly, IMO.

 

FINA has revealed that she's passed 4 doping tests over the last 12 months with 2 just before the games.

 

Anyhow, time will tell, I presume, though as a PP say, they may not even know that they've been given or have taken a cocktail which could be deemed as performance enhancing drugs.

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Ruf~Feral~es
You can't compare Rice to Ye Shiwen. Rice comes from a country who has close to an impeccable record when it comes to swimming and drugs. Ye Shiwen comes from a country whose record is terrible. You would be justified in speculating on Ye Shiwens performance you would not be justified in speculating on Rices's performances. If Ye Shiwen came from any other country then sure, compare away. China is a completely different story. Throw in to the equation Ye Shiwens teammate was also banned for doping. In an ideal situation Ye Shiwen would be given the benefit of the doubt, but because of her countries record there is speculation, justifiably so.

 

Ultimately, they are two swimmers. One has been training since she was 3 - mostly away from her family. The other has grown up vert differently, and trained very differently. Both have had similar times/improvements.

 

But only one is "one of us".

 

 

Innocent until proven guilty - yes that what it should be. But in the eyes of a very disillusioned public it's pretty easy to see how a swimmer from China that has just smashed the world record and has had her training partners banned for doping can be suspected of drug abuse. You cannot criticise someone for challenging her. It would be incredibly naive of a sports commentator or journalist not to mention doping.

 

I am part of the "disillusioned public". I tend towards cynicism and am SO peeved at the media and their crap. Still willing to give her the benefit of the doubt though.

 

It would be an incredibly decent journalist to not mention doping. (But how many of them are there?)

 

I am so glad that some of the swimmers - even the ones she has beaten - are bigger than many of the people here. I was impressed to see Alicia Coutts congratulating her after their race, and defending her in the media.

 

 

Just the fact that a 16 year old girl was able to keep up with a male Olympic champion over 100m

But she didn't. She swam the last lap of an 8 lap race faster than someone else swam their last lap. Nowhere near the same as keeping up with a male olympic champion.

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Ruf~Feral~es

Just thought I'd repost this from earlier - to hopefully stop the whole "She swam faster than the guys" comments.

 

 

Phelps world record for the 800m IM is 4.03 seconds.

3 people in his race swam faster than Phelps - he came 4th after swimming it in 4.09

 

Ye Shiwen finished her race in 4.28 - by my calculations, 9 seconds SLOWER than Phelps.

 

Yes, she swam a blisteringly fast final 50m. But that was not the race. It was an 800m race. I doubt she would beat any of those boys over a straight 50m.

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