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Ye Shiwen

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#YKG

Considering she has been swimming against people 5+ years older then her since she was 14 and entered the international comps since 2010 she has gotten 11 gold, 2 silver & 1 bronze.

 

It looks more like she is a talented teenager rather then a drug cheat. I will eat my words if she comes back positive but honestly if she wasn't Chinese but rather British or American or Australian etc would this question even be raised ?

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BlondieUK

No, because those countries do not have a history of endemic, state-approved drug cheating.

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#YKG

So the fact that 3 athletes (non chinese by the way) have been sent home in the last 2 weeks prior to the Olympics starting doesn't make those other countries drug cheatts?

 

Lets face it that last great "haul" of chinese drug cheats was in 1994 and all have retired. How hard is it to believe that a country may turn a corner in regards to performance drugs?

 

Ireland has had most of their medals stripped from them in the equestrian arena's does that mean all irish horeses are dopped?

 

Since 1994 I have been unable to find any Chinese athlete that has tested positive at an Olympic games for performance drugs. - Your welcome to correct me.

 

Oh 1994 was not an Olympic year but was an international swimming competition. China has not tested postive in the Olympics since 1992 in volleyball

Edited by YellowKittyGlenn

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Fright bat

I wonder how many of our own athletes take performance enhancing drugs?

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bearosauraus

FYI - athletes are tested A LOT!! I have a few friends over there, and since they have been in Europe 4 weeks ago they have been tested at least twice a week. It may be sport specific, but seems to be a common thing in their sport to expect a knock on the door at all hours a couple of times a week before/during/after big events.

Half of me doubts the Chinese, but the other half of me knows that they basically breed athletes to perform at a high level, and they do nothing but train their whole life! Guess time will tell.

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BlondieUK

Yellow Kitty Glen - the article I spoke of talked about doping going on well into the 90s. So the fact that the last Chinese athlete was caught in 92 (or whenever) doesn't fill me with confidence.

 

Call it prejudice based on experience. China have been blunt in their press about their mission to show the rest of the world that they are the #1 in every sport. In those words.

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whitelights

I'm going to be honest. I tend to be more skeptical of Chinese athletes than others because as a nation, they do have a history of state endorsed drug cheating.

 

Let's not forget the gymnastics age scandals they have been involved in, both in 2000 and 2008.

 

I will question a country that gave its athletes fake passports as recently as 4 years ago so they could meet age requirements:

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-flumen...m_b_118842.html

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#YKG

The last Australian caught doping was in 1988 does that mean Australians dont dope?

 

A lot of countries have a history of serious talking themselves up and extremely publicly stating they want to be number 1 Australians included doesn't mean all the athletes from those countries are drug cheats.

 

Whitelights Romania has been doing that also for years lying about ages with fake documents. It's not just one country but hey the world needs a villan the Olympics right

Edited by YellowKittyGlenn

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BlondieUK

You're right, of course.

 

But the combination of her Nationality, the (recent) public confession of a senior state coach, and the unbelievable time make me question whether there is, at the very least, blood doping going on.

 

I agree with you that the public chest beating is not restricted to China. But they believe they are already the best in everything, and it's just a question of proving it. It's hard to define, but having lived in China (including the mainland) for a long long time, the attitudes to sport are <all> about winning. Athletes who lose have been known to return to their home villages to be publicly berated by local officials. It's just a different world.

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#YKG

Blondie China agian not alone. Romania aren't particularly nice to their athletes.

 

Personally every Irish horse in the games I'm going to assume is dopped, Every Greek Track and Field and weightlifting athlete, and Hunagrian weightlifters gonna assume they are all dopped to the eyeballs when they win their medals. I mean Greece has had 7 athletes in only 2 Olympics games banned for dopping.

 

Oh thats right they dont trash talk and train their athletes like machines they CAN'T possibly be drug cheats. (either that or no one pays attention to them)

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BlondieUK

I thought that conversation was about whether this one individual swimmer/athelete was? I wasn't making points about any other nation until you brought up British/American/Australian teams and I talked about how they did not have a history of endemic, state-supported drug cheating. I didn't say that the Chinese were the only ones with this history, and I don't know anything about weightlifting or Irish equestrian history to comment on the situations you've brought up.

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dynamitee
Tell me why a women can't be faster than a man?

 

 

I get the top point, but I look at her and see a small 16 yr old who would be a lot lighter then Phelps would be, wouldn't that glide through the pool quicker?

 

Your second point I do agree with totally. But I don't think we should be calling people cheats just because they have good times. Thorpe, Phelps and Lochte are called amazing.

 

It's not that she's doing so well, but because she's doing things which are virtually impossible from a physical standpoint (if we are to follow the natural progression of swimming). Swimmers are always gradually getting better but the leap here is too great.

 

I was reading a breakdown of the physical attributes that made Michael phelps such a good swimmer such as his long body, short legs, long arms and large feed. It makes sense.

 

What this 16 year is doing doesn't. To actually have a freestyle leg where she could beat someone of Ryan Lochte's calibre just doesn't make sense. Women will destroy other women in a race, men other men, but this is just odd. If there were at least a couple of others female swimmers from different countries who were remotely close then maybe but the last time I felt this way about the chinese swimmers was back in 1994 and we know how that turned out.

 

Plus one of her former teammates was caught in march for blood doping. The whole situation just smells bad.

 

I would love to believe she was clean but I just can't. I'm calling BS.

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#YKG

Blondie yes but had she been a chinese teenager born and competing for another country and acheived the exact same thing no one would bat an eye lid and call drug cheat.

 

The simple fact she is Chinese and her ability being questioned and people wanting to label her a drug cheat is the issue.Quite a few in this thread have stated that the fact she is Chinese is raising eyebrows and having people question what very well may be natural talent. She is being tarred by the same brush as athletes that competed 18 years ago.

 

Maybe people need to look into the current countries that have had a lot more cases of dopping in the last 8 years instead of dredging up something that is 18 years old and stop suspecting people of doing wrong when it may not be case for this young girl.

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MrsLexiK
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It's not that she's doing so well, but because she's doing things which are virtually impossible from a physical standpoint (if we are to follow the natural progression of swimming). Swimmers are always gradually getting better but the leap here is too great.

 

I was reading a breakdown of the physical attributes that made Michael phelps such a good swimmer such as his long body, short legs, long arms and large feed. It makes sense.

 

What this 16 year is doing doesn't. To actually have a freestyle leg where she could beat someone of Ryan Lochte's calibre just doesn't make sense. Women will destroy other women in a race, men other men, but this is just odd. If there were at least a couple of others female swimmers from different countries who were remotely close then maybe but the last time I felt this way about the chinese swimmers was back in 1994 and we know how that turned out.

 

Plus one of her former teammates was caught in march for blood doping. The whole situation just smells bad.

 

I would love to believe she was clean but I just can't. I'm calling BS.

 

Lance Armstrong is being investigated - does that mean his team mates are cheats as well?

I hate that I am quoting Grant Hackett but he said in Saturday night (or Sunday morning can't remember) that the benefits for a host nation are not normally seen until the following Olympics. Look at us in Athens, and how great we were in the pool in the past 8 years. Her overall time was still slower then Lochets was it was only the last 50 mts she swam faster but overall her whole race was slower then Lochets and therefore Phelps.

 

 

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Soontobegran

Hmmmm? I don't know!

I'd like to give her the benefit of the doubt only because she has no physical characteristics of having taken performance enhancing drugs...unlike those massive Chinese women of the past.

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pili-pala

MrsLexiK - lance Armstrong is not a good example since its his former drug cheating team mates who robbed him in, so yes in his case, I do expect most of his team to be involved!

 

What I found interesting in the revelations of doping was that some of the athletes didn't know they were being doped. Also interesting is the identification and training instead of education that the children go through and how they dropped as soon as medal chances diminish which means a lot of Chinese athletes aren't on the world stage that long, as they won't have access to training etc.

 

As to whether she is a cheat, well unless she tests positive, like any other athlete at the games, I will assume she is using legal methods. I haven't read any theories about her body type etc, which was all the discussion when Usain Bolt started to easily win and break records although the drug question was raised.

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MrsLexiK
14787905[/url]']

MrsLexiK - lance Armstrong is not a good example since its his former drug cheating team mates who robbed him in, so yes in his case, I do expect most of his team to be involved!

 

What I found interesting in the revelations of doping was that some of the athletes didn't know they were being doped. Also interesting is the identification and training instead of education that the children go through and how they dropped as soon as medal chances diminish which means a lot of Chinese athletes aren't on the world stage that long, as they won't have access to training etc.

 

As to whether she is a cheat, well unless she tests positive, like any other athlete at the games, I will assume she is using legal methods. I haven't read any theories about her body type etc, which was all the discussion when Usain Bolt started to easily win and break records although the drug question was raised.

 

You are right total bad example on my behalf but it was the first one I came up with. The way China pick their athletes it does not surprise me that they found one so fast or with the ability to be so fast, she will probably be dumped after 2016 games.

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HerringToMarmalade

I was thinking that maybe she has just been training harder for longer than most other athletes. We know what China can be like in terms of promoting winning and achieving, its not hard to imagine that their athletes may have been training at an elite level from quite young, which may mean they're been able to develop stronger through training at such a young age.

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MummaDiva

HGH and EPO are near impossible to detect when the dopee knows they are going to be dope tested. Sporting bodies try to convince the lay person that it is not so, and seem to have done this successfully. Any sports physician can pretty much set up a masking mechanism. The fact that her teammate got caught a few months back is surprising.

I hope the "officials" don't do her too much harm.

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dynamitee
Blondie yes but had she been a chinese teenager born and competing for another country and acheived the exact same thing no one would bat an eye lid and call drug cheat.

 

The simple fact she is Chinese and her ability being questioned and people wanting to label her a drug cheat is the issue.Quite a few in this thread have stated that the fact she is Chinese is raising eyebrows and having people question what very well may be natural talent. She is being tarred by the same brush as athletes that competed 18 years ago.

 

Maybe people need to look into the current countries that have had a lot more cases of dopping in the last 8 years instead of dredging up something that is 18 years old and stop suspecting people of doing wrong when it may not be case for this young girl.

 

I think any female who swam like she did (virtually beating Lochte) would leave a question mark in many minds. I'm sure there's many women swimmers who can beat male swimmers, but not in the super elite, not a chance.

 

Lance Armstrong is being investigated - does that mean his team mates are cheats as well?

I hate that I am quoting Grant Hackett but he said in Saturday night (or Sunday morning can't remember) that the benefits for a host nation are not normally seen until the following Olympics. Look at us in Athens, and how great we were in the pool in the past 8 years. Her overall time was still slower then Lochets was it was only the last 50 mts she swam faster but overall her whole race was slower then Lochets and therefore Phelps.

.

 

I think members of armstrongs team have admitted to doping.

 

From my understanding, the concerns that are had with the chinese swimmers (and it isnt across the entire team) is the way they are finishing races. The natural fatigue that occurs just isn't happening. This is what many are saying is suggestive of doping to increase stamina.

 

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whitelights
Whitelights Romania has been doing that also for years lying about ages with fake documents. It's not just one country but hey the world needs a villan the Olympics right

 

Romania and the USSR have done it in the past yes, but China have done it much more recently than Romania/countries which made up the USSR, which is why I consider it a little relevant when calling into question China's 'honesty' at the Olympics.

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dynamitee
I was thinking that maybe she has just been training harder for longer than most other athletes. We know what China can be like in terms of promoting winning and achieving, its not hard to imagine that their athletes may have been training at an elite level from quite young, which may mean they're been able to develop stronger through training at such a young age.

 

Dennis coterell the Australian coach was brought in to assist the Chinese with their swim program as they weren't having much success post 1994 doping.

 

I think the above reasoning just doesn't work for a number of reasons. If it did, most other countries would already have been adopting these practices.

 

As I've said I would love to think she was clean but knowing that a teammate was caught doping in march plus seeing the swims of a couple of other of their swimmers who have come from nowhere just doesn't sit right.

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BlondieUK

Going back to the point about Romania altering age information - China got badly sprung in the 2008 Olympics - local officials posted pics of the girls' original birth certificates online, showing that a few were not of the legal age to compete. Miraculously, the next day, these had all been taken down, and the 'real' certificates were shown in Beijing. These same girls are now claiming to be 20 at the 2012 Olympics.......???

 

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8...1832312,00.html

Edited by BlondieUK

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miriams

I don't know. I suppose she would be tested, like others, and that's the only basis we can fairly judge her on. A boy in my DD's class emigrated from the PRC. He's in the national levels for his age group in swimming and just won a full scholarship to King's because of it (he also did well in the selective school exam). His dad takes him to the pool every morning at 5:30am where he is coached. He does jogging/pushups/chinups/light weights etc with him in the evenings. I'm sure that when he gets a bit older, they will be doing more serious weightlifting as well. I think a lot of Australians have this mental image of Chinese people being a bit weedy and not as naturally built for sports as us but a lot of people from the north of China are actually quite tall and athletic - this boy's dad is at least 6'2 ".

 

If she achieved it on her own merits, good for her.

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