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SarDonik

Ye Shiwen

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SarDonik

There has been some surprise at Ye Shiwen's amazing swim in the 400m IM and some hinting in the media that performance enhancing drugs could be behind it. Do you think this is fair or should athletes be given total benefit of the doubt until there is solid proof of doping?

 

http://au.sports.yahoo.com/news/swim-starl...-174751108.html

 

 

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ComradeBob

I think it'll be a cold day in hell before the 24/7 news reporting culture lets anyone have the benefit of the doubt.

 

There's media needs to be filled with wiht mindless "information" out there, you know! ;)

 

 

 

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VigilantePaladin

She will be tested and, if drugs are found, will be dealt with. Until then people can speculate all they like.

 

 

 

 

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casime

From what I gather of most sports at the level, they've probably all had at least 100 drug tests each in the lead up to the games, and will no doubt be tested after this performance. How about the media keep their speculation to themselves until such time as any announcement is made that she did in fact cheat?

 

I bet that if an Australian had done that performance they would be cheering about how wonderful the athlete was. Because only overseas athletes ever cheat of course. :rolleyes:

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SarDonik
I bet that if an Australian had done that performance they would be cheering about how wonderful the athlete was. Because only overseas athletes ever cheat of course. :rolleyes:

 

Yes very true.

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PixieVee

Very true JustBeige. Going by history it's not shocking that people might be suspicious.

 

I imagine that swimmers are very rigorously tested though, if that is the case leave the poor woman alone!

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red_squirrel

What? no speculations that she is actually a man????

 

The media really are slacking nowadays.

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MrsLexiK
I bet that if an Australian had done that performance they would be cheering about how wonderful the athlete was. Because only overseas athletes ever cheat of course. :rolleyes:

 

 

:clap:

 

I said in another thread, Grant Hackett said something that I agreed with (and it pains me to say this) about how the previous hosting nation usually does really well at the next olympics. Australia did better at Athens - where were the people calling us cheats?

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Tilly007

Of course she is a drug cheat.

 

It's not just about a swimmer doing well - the times she posted are not just unheard of, they are unthought of.

 

Look at the objective facts - she is a 16 year old woman who swam faster than the best swimmer of all time, Michael Phelps.

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PixieVee
Australia did better at Athens - where were the people calling us cheats?

 

Yes. And they still do.

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casime
Of course she is a drug cheat.

 

Have you personally drug tested her, or is it your psychic powers that told you so? Should she even bother taking a test, since you've already deemed her guilty?

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Liv_DrSperm_sh

Last week I would have said 'innocent until proven guilty'

 

However, I've just seen an awesome talk by an Australian involved in trying to detect drug cheats, in particular, those that blood dope.

 

Blood doping is endemic. It's horribly cynical, but I think always assuming someone is enhancing until they can prove otherwise is the only way to go.

 

Of course if she is is legit it is AWESOME for females in sport. I've always thought that females had the potential to match, if not exceed times set by male counterparts.

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MrsLexiK
Of course she is a drug cheat.

 

It's not just about a swimmer doing well - the times she posted are not just unheard of, they are unthought of.

 

Look at the objective facts - she is a 16 year old woman who swam faster than the best swimmer of all time, Michael Phelps.

 

Tell me why a women can't be faster than a man?

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purplekitty
Tell me why a women can't be faster than a man?
It's simply a matter of physiology. Testosterone and other anabolic steroids cause muscle development, and other changes that give an inherent advantage.

 

Unfortunately, I think the drug cheating science is always one step ahead of the detection capabilities. We are very reliant on on the integrity of the countries involved.

 

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MrsLexiK
It's simply a matter of physiology. Testosterone and other anabolic steroids cause muscle development, and other changes that give an inherent advantage.

 

Unfortunately, I think the drug cheating science is always one step ahead of the detection capabilities. We are very reliant on on the integrity of the countries involved.

 

I get the top point, but I look at her and see a small 16 yr old who would be a lot lighter then Phelps would be, wouldn't that glide through the pool quicker?

 

Your second point I do agree with totally. But I don't think we should be calling people cheats just because they have good times. Thorpe, Phelps and Lochte are called amazing.

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purplekitty

I think there are some amazing athletes who give some unbelievable performances without doing it illegally and I hate the media being so quick to say "drugs" ,but I don't think we can depend on testing to be definitive answer.

 

I'm just talking in a general sense, I don't really have an opinion on this Chinese swimmer. I'll see how she performs in the next few years.

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SarDonik
I get the top point, but I look at her and see a small 16 yr old who would be a lot lighter then Phelps would be, wouldn't that glide through the pool quicker?

 

erm no. It doesn't quite work like that.

 

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SarDonik

Unfortunately for Ye Shiwen, she's Chinese and they will be forever tainted by previous drug scandals. They have a terrible track record with doping. Knocking 5 secs off her pb is huge, she is young however so it's more of a possibility than if she were an adult.

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Ruf~Feral~es
Of course she is a drug cheat.

 

It's not just about a swimmer doing well - the times she posted are not just unheard of, they are unthought of.

 

Look at the objective facts - she is a 16 year old woman who swam faster than the best swimmer of all time, Michael Phelps.

 

 

With "facts" like yours, you could get a job with the Australian Media.

 

The actual "facts" are:

 

Phelps world record for the 800m IM is 4.03 seconds.

3 people in his race swam faster than Phelps - he came 4th after swimming it in 4.09

 

Ye Shiwen finished her race in 4.28 - by my calculations, 9 seconds SLOWER than Phelps.

 

Yes, she swam a blisteringly fast final 50m. But that was not the race. It was an 800m race. I doubt she would beat any of those boys over a straight 50m.

 

 

 

 

I have no idea whether she is using drugs or not. But really, must that be the first thing we think of when faced with success?

 

Time will tell. It is just such a shame that a 16 year old is going through these allegations after her success. How very sad, if she isn't taking any drugs.

 

ETA: AS far as her times being "unthought of" - in 2002, Phelps swam the 800m IM in 4.11. New world record. I'm sure 4.03 would have been "unthought of" at the time. But he did it. 4.03 is his current world record.

 

Yes, I know they had new suits, blah, blah, blah. But that would mean that anyone who can now break a WR without the suit must also be taking drugs, wouldn't it? But I'm sure it will happen.

 

 

Edited by Ruffles

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so_very_tired

I think it would be very naive to think that the Olympics are drug-free.

 

You'd be surprised just how little actual testing goes on, and besides, the compounds some of them use are undetectable a week or two after cessation, and by that time the extra strength/mass is there to stay (at least for long enough to compete).

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Tilly007

Seriously, are people really this naive?

 

The time she swam in the last 100m was on par with what Lochte swam, and she was faster than him in the last 50m.

 

Is the PP serious when she asks why it is assumed that men swim faster than women????

 

Her last 100m split time, combined with the FACT that the Chinese swim program has been caught cheating on a large scale just over 10 years ago, really leads to the inescapable conclusion that she yes she is a drug cheat.

 

She may not get caught, because as a PP pointed out, the drug cheats are way ahead of the drug detectors.

 

Lots of the Eastern European athletes were never caught either, but it is pretty much accepted as "common knowlege" that they were drug cheats.

 

Ever heard of Flo Jo? She set a world record of 10.49 in the women's 100m in 1988 and no-one has ever come close. She died of a heart attack at the age of 38. Hmmmm wonder why that happened. She was never "caught" but again it is accepted pretty much universally that she was a drug cheat.

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Ruf~Feral~es
really leads to the inescapable conclusion that she yes she is a drug cheat.

 

I still don't agree.

 

OK, so it looks that way. The signs might be there. I'm not naive, I'm well aware that there is a history, and that drugs are ahead of the testing mechanisms.

 

But I am still willing to give any athlete the benefit of the doubt. If it is PROVED, by more than speculation, then I will condemn. Until then, I just want to watch the olympics for what they are.

 

Just a question - if you were going to take performance enhancing drugs and cheat, why would you make it so obvious? Surely you would not want to draw attention to yourself, and would ensure that you won by a comfortable, rather than huge, margin?

 

ETA - she is also not the only one to have broken a swimming world record at these Olympics, so it is nothing to do with the lack of the lycra suit.

Edited by Ruffles

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Tilly007

But I am still willing to give any athlete the benefit of the doubt. If it is PROVED, by more than speculation, then I will condemn. Until then, I just want to watch the olympics for what they are.

 

Just a question - if you were going to take performance enhancing drugs and cheat, why would you make it so obvious? Surely you would not want to draw attention to yourself, and would ensure that you won by a comfortable, rather than huge, margin?

 

Oh sure at the moment we can't "prove beyond reasonable doubt" that she's a drug cheat. But then, EB is not a court room and we are not a jury, and we have been asked for our opinions. Which I expressed.

 

To your last point, she probably didn't know how far ahead she was. Once she's gone past them, she can't look back.

Edited by Tilly007

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prettypenny

I know it's not very PC of me but I think it's quite probable that she has used drugs. It's an extraordinary performance from a swimmer who's country has had a confirmed dopping culture.

 

Ben Cousins proved that drug takers don't always get caught, so even if she has used drugs she may never be detected.

 

 

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BlondieUK

There was an article in the UK press last with - an interview with a Chinese ex-coach. He said they pretty much did everything - steroids, blood doping.......back in the 80s and 90s......but not now..........

 

Yeah right.

 

I have no doubt in my mind that the girl in question is a great swimmer. I also have no doubt that she has been the subject of dubious 'training' techniques.

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