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Anonandanonandanon

Photos of unknown minors

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Anonandanonandanon

Hypothetically speaking, and if anyone knowledgeable about the law can answer that would be great. If someone, hypothetically, were to walk past a local school where young skaters hang out, and hypothetically saw them breaking a) covid restrictions and possibly b) graffiti-ing, can that person hypothetically take a photo of the group from a distance to send to snap send solve? Checking for a friend.....who was told hypothetically by the group that they didn’t give permission for them to take their photo as they were minors and it’s illegal. Hypothetically this phrase kept being repeated and was obviously well planned,used in the past.

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caitiri

As far as I am aware there are no laws against taking anyones photo in a public place 

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caitiri

Here's a quote 

There are no laws preventing an individual taking your photo in a public place and posting it online.

But, if someone has taken a photo of you while  on your property, you may be able to take legal action against them for trespass and may be able to prevent the photos from being taken used or published.

 

That's from www.yla.org

 

Edited by caitiri

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Luci

I don't have any expert knowledge on this and I am not a lawyer. However there is quite a lot of information on the internet on various sites that clearly says it is not an offence to take a photo of a minor in a public place. 

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seayork2002

Wouldn't it be simpler to call the council/police to report?

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Anonandanonandanon
1 minute ago, seayork2002 said:

Wouldn't it be simpler to call the council/police to report?

I have to ask, but it’s purely rhetorical. Did you read the OP? 

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Feral-as-Meggs

It’s not illegal and doesn’t require consent.     You’d need consent to use the images commercially or (in many states) if you want to record sound.
 

Hypothetically I’d call the rangers or police for graffiti/vandalism.  For COVID-19 I think teens In outdoor areas should be given a break - the medical hazard doesn’t outweigh putting them in conflict with police.   Kids have lost their lives fleeing police.  

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Meepy

Grafitti-ing a local school is criminal behaviour and should be reported to the police.  Depending on the school and the nature of the graffiti it will cost money to remove and may mean part of the school being placed out of bounds until it is removed.  This is money that would otherwise be used by the school for other purposes, for example to educate kids.

pp has mentioned kids losing their lives fleeing police.  This is uncommon in Australia unless the youths choose to drive away recklessly.  Unlikely in this case as they are skateboarding.  Covid19 does not excuse stupid behaviour.  Skating is fine, causing problems for others to fix is not.  My school spent $25000 one year fixing problems caused by people out of hours - it is not a victimless crime, especially if it contains slander, images or profanities that young kids shouldn't be exposed to.

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Feral-as-Meggs

There’s been at least 3 I can remember off the top of my head - TJ Hickey on a bike and the 2 kids who drowned in the river in WA(?).  
 

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Meepy

As previously stated, uncommon, you could even say rare.  Compared to all the youth that police would speak to, the chances of that happening are extremely low.  Not ringing the police because you fear what will happen when they come is not something that should be generally considered in Australia.  If we were in America and they were people of colour, a different story altogether.

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Lou-bags
2 minutes ago, Meepy said:

Not ringing the police because you fear what will happen when they come is not something that should be generally considered in Australi

I don’t think this is a true statement for all Australian children. 

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Meepy

Hence why I said generally.  There will always be exceptions.  However I find the easiest way to not get in trouble with the police is to not break laws.  

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Lou-bags
18 minutes ago, Meepy said:

Hence why I said generally.  There will always be exceptions.  However I find the easiest way to not get in trouble with the police is to not break laws.  

Unless you’re Blak... 

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panda eyes
27 minutes ago, Meepy said:

Hence why I said generally.  There will always be exceptions.  However I find the easiest way to not get in trouble with the police is to not break laws.  

Actually I think the best way to not get in trouble with the police is to be white and middle class. 

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PuddingPlease
1 hour ago, Lou-bags said:

I don’t think this is a true statement for all Australian children. 

I understand your point but surely the solution is not to stand by while a group of kids vandalises a school?

At what point would you consider calling police? Presumably most people would report an assault but what about a fight? What if it was someones house being vandalised? Or a block of flats? 

If it was your child's school, would you be more inclined to report it?

I agree with not feeling compelled to report teens for covid breaches, there are groups of teenagers at the skate park near us constantly and I have found it annoying but have not felt compelled to report it. But if they were spray-painting the local high school then it seems like a stretch to suggest that I shouldn't report them to police in case they die trying to run away. 

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Lou-bags

 

57 minutes ago, PuddingPlease said:

suggest that I shouldn't report them to police in case they die trying to run away. 

I suggested no such thing. My point wasn’t to do with the OP at all- it was directed at a PPs comment which I feel comes from a place of ignorance and privilege. 

But since you asked the specific question- would I call the police if a group of Indigenous youths were vandalizing my kids school? I don’t know.

I called the cops when I saw two young white kids scaling the fence of our old school two years ago, I worried they were going to do damage. They had backpacks and they were looking around nervously. And I think back then yes I’d have called regardless of colour.

Now I’m not so sure. I’ve learned too much lately to feel the same as I once did about crime and police and race in Australia.

I might yell out from my car (in this hypothetical I’d be driving past, because we live too far for me to have any reason to be on foot outside of a pick up or drop off). 
 

If I believed someone’s safety to be at risk (a fight, a home break in, an assault) its a complete no brainer to call the cops, I would have thought. But that is all an extrapolation of the OP (not that I was addressing the OP at all anyway). 

Edited to add that the outcome of police attendance for an Indigenous child is not limited to death. And bad outcomes are not as rare as PP seems to suggest. 
Indigenous youth are 25-ish times more likely to be in detention than their non-Indigenous counterparts. All those exceptions...  

Edited by Lou-bags
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PuddingPlease
9 minutes ago, Lou-bags said:

 

I suggested no such thing. My point wasn’t to do with the OP at all- it was directed at a PPs comment which I feel comes from a place of ignorance and privilege. 

But since you asked the specific question- would I call the police if a group of Indigenous youths were vandalizing my kids school? I don’t know.

I called the cops when I saw two young white kids scaling the fence of our old school two years ago, I worried they were going to do damage. They had backpacks and they were looking around nervously. And I think back then yes I’d have called regardless of colour.

Now I’m not so sure. I’ve learned too much lately to feel the same as I once did about crime and police and race in Australia.

I might yell out from my car (in this hypothetical I’d be driving past, because we live too far for me to have any reason to be on foot outside of a pick up or drop off). 
 

I understand your point but I think the question of privilege is not as straightforward as your post would suggest. 

Schools provide a lot of supports for their students during the year from a finite budget. Clean up from one incident of vandalism may not be significant but if it happened 3-4 time in a term then the thousands of dollars for cleaning and repairs need to come from somewhere.

As a PP pointed out, these aren't necessarily victimless crimes. Programs like breakfast clubs and lunch-time activities all come with costs and if there is less money in the budget than anticipated then they get cut. My kids can get breakfast before they leave for school but for kids who can't, there are real ramifications to reducing breakfast club from three days a week to two, etc. Damage to schools (and other public building for that matter) is likely to disproportionately impact the already disadvantaged.

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Lou-bags

You’re still not getting my point I don’t think?

I am not talking at all about the OP or the vandalism on any school or anything like that.

I am literally only addressing the comment that the PP made (“Not ringing the police because you fear what will happen when they come is not something that should be generally considered in Australia.”) which comes from a place of extraordinary privilege. Doubled down on with a just don’t do a crime and you won’t be get in trouble (just, no). 

There are so very many Australians who would not call the police for allll kinds of things because they fear what will happen if they do. Indigenous women who won’t call when they are being assaulted by their partner because they might have some unpaid fines, and they might get taken away instead (and while they are away their baby might die, or they might die in custody or...).

There are kids doing petty, minor sh*t who get a custodial sentence while their white counterparts get a stern talking to and are free to get on with their lives.

I’m not going to derail further, apologies OP. 

Edited by Lou-bags
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PuddingPlease
2 hours ago, Lou-bags said:

You’re still not getting my point I don’t think?

I am not talking at all about the OP or the vandalism on any school or anything like that.

I am literally only addressing the comment that the PP made (“Not ringing the police because you fear what will happen when they come is not something that should be generally considered in Australia.”) which comes from a place of extraordinary privilege. Doubled down on with a just don’t do a crime and you won’t be get in trouble (just, no). 

There are so very many Australians who would not call the police for allll kinds of things because they fear what will happen if they do. Indigenous women who won’t call when they are being assaulted by their partner because they might have some unpaid fines, and they might get taken away instead (and while they are away their baby might die, or they might die in custody or...).

There are kids doing petty, minor sh*t who get a custodial sentence while their white counterparts get a stern talking to and are free to get on with their lives.

I’m not going to derail further, apologies OP. 

Well yeah but it was the sixth post after the OP. Was it really necessary for the person to specify that their response related to this particular situation and not every potential call to police Australia-wide? I assume the kinds of situations you have listed are the reason for the qualifying "should not be generally considered" which is different to saying that it should never be considered. 

The post was attempting to counter one that suggested that calling police over kids vandalising public buildings is a bad idea because the police pose a much bigger threat to the teens than the criminal activity does to the rest of the community. 

Edit: Have re-read and I think that the PP was only talking about not calling police if the sole issue was curfew or covid-19 gatherings. That seems infinitely more reasonable, my apologies for misrepresenting that post. 

Apologies OP - I will also cease derailing now

Edited by PuddingPlease
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gruidae

.

Edited by gruidae
going into hiding
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Lou-bags

@gruidae thanks for that post! That’s really useful information regarding the council and youth services. 

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Meepy

Lou bags my comments were not directed at any race and I fail to see how you get any privilege from it.  I teach at a low socio-economic, incredibly diverse school with many different CALD people.  It does not come from a place of privilege.  My students are regularly discriminated against, even when they are on excursions with me.  However if they are committing a crime they should be reported and face consequences.

What I was saying is that graffiti and criminal damage costs schools a lot of money, there is very little chance of being killed by police in Australia  and if you see people committing crime you should report it.   

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PuddingPlease
5 hours ago, gruidae said:

Photograph the graffiti not the kids, send to council. Many councils deal with it via restorative justice, making them clean it up - avoiding some of the pitfalls with the young people/police nexus. More often than not, they can be id'd via their tags.  If not, councils will often refer to a local generalist youth service who does outreach to send someone down there for a chat. 

I'm not being deliberately dense but why would a photo of the graffiti (not the kids) result in restorative justice?

Isn't the point of the photo to provide evidence of who vandalised the building? Why would a picture of the damage result in the perpetrators being identified. In the absence of that, the most likely outcome would seem to be that the damage is repaired at the schools expense and the person or people responsible are never identified, regardless of whether the picture is sent to police or council. What am I missing?

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gruidae

.

Edited by gruidae
going into hiding
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YodaTheWrinkledOne
20 hours ago, panda eyes said:

Actually I think the best way to not get in trouble with the police is to be white and middle class. 

or white and rich. That helps too

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