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Ozquoll
2 hours ago, Lady Sybil Vimes said:

From The Times:

 

 

Here's the letter:

 

I'm so glad that letter has come out! A little disappointed it took this long - I wonder if #RIPJKRowling precipitated it? Anyway, it's out, and hopefully a few more prominent people will locate their backbones and condemn abusive behaviour in future. 

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steppy

Who really wants to watch women's sport if people who transition are in it anyway? Not me. I don't like sport enough to watch it much anyway, but I already don't watch women's sport unless it's level playing field stuff - like skiing or surfing. I could not give 3 hoots about any female team sports. The men are too much better to watch. The only thing that could make women's sport more boring is watching women get beaten by transwomen. If that's going to happen, I'm happy to get rid of half the sport in the world and make it all open gender, and then just watch the best men compete and win.

 

 

 

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Ozquoll
1 minute ago, steppy said:

Who really wants to watch women's sport if people who transition are in it anyway?

The madness has gone deep in the US - there's now many instances of transgirls beating biological girls in high school sports. There's videos of spectators booing the ostensible winners of running races because it's so obviously unfair to let biological males compete in women's sporting events. Maybe the female athletes need to go on strike?

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nori_roll
11 minutes ago, Ozquoll said:

The madness has gone deep in the US - there's now many instances of transgirls beating biological girls in high school sports. There's videos of spectators booing the ostensible winners of running races because it's so obviously unfair to let biological males compete in women's sporting events. Maybe the female athletes need to go on strike?

Yes and these girls that are losing to the trans athletes are missing out on college scholarships - imagine a world where that can happen! Oh wait...

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nori_roll
20 minutes ago, Ozquoll said:

Maybe the female athletes need to go on strike?

Sad as it is - it would make much much more of an impact if male athletes took some kind of action. 

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kadoodle
25 minutes ago, nori_roll said:

Sad as it is - it would make much much more of an impact if male athletes took some kind of action. 

They wouldn’t care enough to do it.

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nori_roll

The lovely Tony Robinson has also tweeted in support of JK:

 

image.png.8699e98493cad418590422834fab9af5.png

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Bam1

Netball is a sport that you would think due to most women starting to play early and most men only starting to play late and maybe only after not being able to make it in their boyhood sport, that woman may have an advantage- but no, the men’s team would still be expected to beat the women’s team. 

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kadoodle
13 hours ago, nori_roll said:

Yes and these girls that are losing to the trans athletes are missing out on college scholarships - imagine a world where that can happen! Oh wait...

It’s a shame that the only way, for many people,out of intergenerational poverty and the chance at higher education is via athletic scholarships. Education for everyone is “socialism” though.

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nori_roll

And these two tweets from John Cleese:

 
It is sad that those who believe themselves to be purer than they are, always end up being outstandingly nasty Thus the Inquisition burned people alive Witch hunting flourished during the period in England, when Puritanism was at its strongest
 
And woke people, who can hardly believe how spotlessly moral they are, are mindlessly spiteful towards those who do not agree with them Like those who give JKR's book one star ratings without having read it It's pathetic that they wear such dumb viciousness as a badge of honour
Edited by nori_roll
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nori_roll

@kadoodle - you might be interested in reading this piece, the author is from Ireland where self id is a thing.  It’s really long but worth a read, I’ve lifted a couple of quotes - they kind of reminded me of you and your worry about accidentally becoming a conservative - you don’t need to worry about that I don’t think.

Socialism, Feminism and transgender politics

Why has a conflict arisen between Transactivists and Feminists?  What should a Marxist approach to this issue be?

‘...So, to summarise, feminists and socialists have, for a long time, seen gender ideology, and gender roles, as a tool of oppression which restricts women, and men to some extent, and they think dismantling this ideology is necessary for the liberation of women.

Marxist/Feminist arguments are not at all like that of Conservatives, as claimed by some Transactivsts. They only agree with Conservatives that biological sex is fixed, but not that women are naturally more emotional and submissive, less rational and intelligent, and uniquely suited to a supportive role....’

 

‘...The Left, if it were to apply a Marxist analysis, would reject Gender Identity Ideology for its subjectivism and misogyny, and would be opposing the attacks on women’s rights which are currently taking place in the name of the Trans-Rights-Movement. If we can oppose discrimination against religious people without adopting their religious ideology, or without supporting the establishment of a theocracy, we should be able to do the same on this issue.

Instead, unfortunately, many left-wing groups have taken the path of least resistance and capitulated wholesale to this anti-materialist individualistic ideology. This will do immense damage to the left in the long-run. My concern is not for the survival of these groups for their own sake, but for the impact the further weakening of the organised left will have at a time of great economic and social crisis.’

 

http://socialistdemocracy.org/RecentArticles/RecentSocialismFeminismTransgenderPoliticsPartOne.html

Edited by nori_roll
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nori_roll
34 minutes ago, Lady Sybil Vimes said:

Post from a US criminologist on the problems with California’s bill to allow self-id in prisons:

https://callieburt.org/2020/09/24/against-californias-sb132/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

The self id thing is so so dangerous.  I’m not sure that the general public is aware that it’s literally any man who says he feels like a woman that can identify into the women’s prison. This is currently the policy in Ireland and there’s a horrific case playing out there - ‘Barbie Kardashian’ which is very disturbing.

 

Some really good points in that article:

 

’the bill prioritizes gender self-identification over (biological) sex, ignoring the reality of differentially sexed (male and female) bodies. This despite the fact that international standards, such as the UN’s Minimum Standards for the Treatment of Prisoners, prescribe sex separated facilities. Transwomen are not (biological) females (or they wouldn’t be trans); therefore, SB132 violates international standards for the separation of male and female prisoners.

Notably, SB132’s replacement of gender with sex is neither defended in statute nor justifiable in light of continued male violence and sexual harassment of females, which is facilitated not only by their greater size and strength (attributable to sex, not gender) as well as male socialization. Research shows that transwomen offend at a rate that is statistically indistinguishable from (non-trans) men; both offend at a rate much higher than that of non-trans women....’

 

’...Housing in the women’s estate is not an answer to the problems that transwomen face—which include abuse and violence. Importantly, a 2019 study by UC Irvine researchers found that most transwomen in prison prefer to be housed in the men’s estate.  SB132 would do nothing to increase the safety, respect, or dignity for those nearly 65% of transwomen who would remain in the men’s estate...’

’...Many incarcerated women have been targeted by male physical and sexual abuse, and evidence suggests that at least one in five suffer from PTSD—a rate that is eight-fold higher than the general population rate. Yet, SB132 would require females to be housed with transwomen–85% of whom retain male genitalia and many of whom have lived most of their lives as men. 

Notably, SB132 has no gatekeeping whatsoever, so that any male (not just sincere transwomen) could self-ID into the women’s estate simply by saying “I feel like a woman”. It’s one thing (and a good one at that) to prohibit the firing of people for being transgender. It is another thing entirely to say that females have to share jail or prison cells with any male who is willing to say “I identify as a woman” to gain access to the women’s estate. 

What this means is that any male can opt to be housed in the female estate. Even males convicted of serial rape of women can simply say they ‘identify’ as women and they would be treated in every way as if they were female under this bill. That’s not simply misguided, that’s absolutely absurd and displays a callous disregard for the well-being of imprisoned females.’

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Hands Up
12 hours ago, nori_roll said:

And these two tweets from John Cleese:

 
It is sad that those who believe themselves to be purer than they are, always end up being outstandingly nasty Thus the Inquisition burned people alive Witch hunting flourished during the period in England, when Puritanism was at its strongest
 
And woke people, who can hardly believe how spotlessly moral they are, are mindlessly spiteful towards those who do not agree with them Like those who give JKR's book one star ratings without having read it It's pathetic that they wear such dumb viciousness as a badge of honour

Spot on, John Cleese. It’s only one side issuing rape and death threats.

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Bam1

Good to see John jump in as well even if he does seem more concerned with the one star rating than the rape and death threats

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