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COVID-19 coronavirus thread #7

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purplekitty
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Ozquoll said:

Hmm, I was sceptical of the Russian vaccine success story, and it seems I may have been right to be - there are quite a few respected Russian scientists saying that the vaccine may not be safe and the testing protocols were nowhere near adequate:

https://mol.im/a/8622761

(Daily Mail.link)

They skipped phase 3 trials I believe.

 

Edited by purplekitty
extraneous word.
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purplekitty

 

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Just Another Cat
1 hour ago, purplekitty said:

 

How do they know who got it first though?

It seems that the Manager was probably more likely to have caught it from the security team since five of them were infected and they had direct contact with returned travellers not the other way around. The manager simply got tested first.

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Soontobegran
2 hours ago, Just Another Cat said:

How do they know who got it first though?

It seems that the Manager was probably more likely to have caught it from the security team since five of them were infected and they had direct contact with returned travellers not the other way around. The manager simply got tested first.

There are  two hotels involved, unless the night manager was employed by both hotels then he/she can not be patient zero.

 

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Just Another Cat

What’s ridiculous is that the hotel manager was able to isolate at the hotel but the security guards were stood down and sent home to isolate. Being casuals they wouldn’t  have been paid for this. It was just stupid.

Something needs to be done about the casual and subcontractor culture in Australia. There are people that have worked the same job for years but aren’t permanent staff, it’s getting ridiculous. 

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Soontobegran
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Just Another Cat said:

What’s ridiculous is that the hotel manager was able to isolate at the hotel but the security guards were stood down and sent home to isolate. Being casuals they wouldn’t  have been paid for this. It was just stupid.

Something needs to be done about the casual and subcontractor culture in Australia. There are people that have worked the same job for years but aren’t permanent staff, it’s getting ridiculous. 

Which is why some of those guards went on to do Uber driving the same night.

I think the sub contracting was a huge issue here. Looking on Gumtree for anyone who called themselves a security guard is inexcusable.

Edited by Soontobegran
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IamzFeralz
6 hours ago, Ozquoll said:

Hmm, I was sceptical of the Russian vaccine success story, and it seems I may have been right to be - there are quite a few respected Russian scientists saying that the vaccine may not be safe and the testing protocols were nowhere near adequate:

https://mol.im/a/8622761

(Daily Mail.link)

I am not usually into conspiracy theories but part of me wonders if the Russians have strategically  done this knowing it might reduce worldwide trust in vaccines in general?  And therefore keep Western countries in a long term state of paralysis because they cannot get the vaccine thresholds high enough due to lack of public trust.
 

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Riotproof

I think Russians just like to be first. That way they are “the best”. 

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Etta
1 hour ago, Soontobegran said:

There are  two hotels involved, unless the night manager was employed by both hotels then he/she can not be patient zero.

 

It depends on the timing between the two outbreaks (and I don't know if there was a gap between the two), but security guards may have spread it across the hotels if they were working at different locations.

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Gumbette
1 hour ago, Riotproof said:

I think Russians just like to be first. That way they are “the best”. 

They're like China in that respect.  Yes you can't vote us out but why would you want to?  We're fabulous.

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born.a.girl

The Golden Child of Covid, New Zealand, has the majority of its quarantine guards never tested for Covid.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/08/nearly-two-thirds-of-nz-s-covid-19-border-isolation-staff-had-never-been-tested-a-week-ago.html

 

(I don't mean 'Golden Child' in any sort of narky way, just that it's possible nowhere much has a perfect system, that will prevent any outbreaks.)

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Vicbitt9
33 minutes ago, born.a.girl said:

@bornagirl That means it was Winston Peters who is to put it politely, a nutbar.  His source apparently was a journalist so nothing factual yet.

I think NZ have done well so far in spite of him, as Jacinda keeps him out of the way of the important stuff!

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Soontobegran
1 hour ago, Etta said:

It depends on the timing between the two outbreaks (and I don't know if there was a gap between the two), but security guards may have spread it across the hotels if they were working at different locations.

I think according to the dates we were told that there were positive guards in hotels was simultaneous but it will be interesting.

It will come out in the enquiry, not all guards were working for the same companies but some companies were working in all hotel quarantine hotels, not just the two which have been the subject of the outbreak.

I think it shows that there were individuals who handled their responsibility better despite the fact they had the same issues with casual employment etc so i am really against all guards being tarred with the same brush, I think that is sad.

The hotel manager being named has only come about from an apparent leaked email to the Age. It will be interesting if this is true but as usual where there is smoke there is usually fire.

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born.a.girl
6 minutes ago, Vicbitt9 said:

@bornagirl That means it was Winston Peters who is to put it politely, a nutbar.  His source apparently was a journalist so nothing factual yet.

I think NZ have done well so far in spite of him, as Jacinda keeps him out of the way of the important stuff!

I thought it was a bit odd, but didn't really know his reputation. What was odd was repeating it to a radio station before even discussing it with the Prime Minister.  Interesting that The Guardian chose to write an article about it, given you'd think enough journalists would know his reputation.

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Ozquoll
3 hours ago, IamzFeralz said:

I am not usually into conspiracy theories but part of me wonders if the Russians have strategically  done this knowing it might reduce worldwide trust in vaccines in general?  And therefore keep Western countries in a long term state of paralysis because they cannot get the vaccine thresholds high enough due to lack of public trust.
 

4d chess 😉🤨

Russia has had nearly a million Covid-19 infections, and more than 15,00 deaths. And that was during the warmer months - it is likely to spread further once the cold weather sets in. I suspect the rushing of the vaccine trial process is mostly due to an understandable desire to stop the situation getting even worse. And the vaccine may well work, and be safe - but they haven't tested it enough to be sure. 

FWIW, I am sceptical of the safety of ANY new drug or vaccine (remember Vioxx?) and would be reluctant to have a Covid-19 vaccine myself until it's been around for a few years and there's no sign of long-term ill-effects. 

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can'tstayaway
1 hour ago, born.a.girl said:

The Golden Child of Covid, New Zealand, has the majority of its quarantine guards never tested for Covid.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/08/nearly-two-thirds-of-nz-s-covid-19-border-isolation-staff-had-never-been-tested-a-week-ago.html

 

(I don't mean 'Golden Child' in any sort of narky way, just that it's possible nowhere much has a perfect system, that will prevent any outbreaks.)

It again demonstrates that we can’t rely on people to self select for testing.  

All staff were regularly offered testing but only 37% participated.  All staff were temperature tested and asked about symptoms daily.  They have changed policy to require all staff members to be routinely tested now. 

Having approximately a third of staff tested would give an indication of Covid cases amongst staff so long as that one third is evenly distributed across all the different areas - customs, immigration, Biosecurity, Air NZ ground staff and hotel quarantine staff. 

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Fifteenyears

China has done it too - are vaccinating their military with a vaccine that looked good in stage two trials (although they are still also completing a phase three trial on that product).

I imagine the reason they are doing it is because they can.  Authoritarian governments don’t need the permission of the people to get on with things.   I suspect if the vaccine in Russia fails (and 95% of vaccines that reach phase three do fail) it will be hushed up and quietly replaced when a better product appears rather than weaponised to decrease vaccine take up elsewhere.

Besides, the rest of the world is likely to shrug and go ‘yep, dodgy rushed Russian vaccine, totally to be expected’.    The real laugh Russia might get would be if this thing actually works but nobody trusts Russia enough to actually take it up without phase three trials of their own.

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Ozquoll

Okay, this article sheds more light on the Russian vaccine story:

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/08/russia-s-approval-covid-19-vaccine-less-meets-press-release

Apparently the approval granted to the vaccine by the Russian Ministry of Health stipulates it cannot be used widely until January 2021. The article also states that Phase 3 trials will commence in August on about 2000 people in several countries. So, questions remain, but this sounds a lot better than 'Vaccine approved, let's give it to everyone, yeah!'

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purplekitty

Russia has a huge COVID problem,it can risk the safety of its people with a possibly dodgy vaccine with no repercussions so it does.

I'm not too concerned about having the vaccine myself, it will go through pre-approval trials with the whole world of medicine and science watching.

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purplekitty

So what about the weeks of saturation news that a security guard slept with someone in quarantine and was the sole cause of the outbreak?

Journalists and the media need to offer a few apologies and corrections.

They have been behaving like employees of the National Enquirer, I'm surprised there weren't alien babies involved.

Investigation before publishing was a thing once.

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born.a.girl
4 minutes ago, purplekitty said:

So what about the weeks of saturation news that a security guard slept with someone in quarantine and was the sole cause of the outbreak?

Journalists and the media need to offer a few apologies and corrections.

They have been behaving like employees of the National Enquirer, I'm surprised there weren't alien babies involved.

Investigation before publishing was a thing once.

I was part of a zoom group, and one said that their partner had a friend who was part of Covid Intelligence (?!?!?!?) - my bullsh!t meter went off even at that point, and that a security guard had had sex with six different women. I'm not sure who was counting.  Don't people's own 'plausibility' meters kick in?

Fortunately another member of the group had a friend who was a nurse at the 'hot hotel' and had said that just about everything we were hearing was no more than rumour, and scuttlebuck. 

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purplekitty

 

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Etta
2 hours ago, born.a.girl said:

I thought it was a bit odd, but didn't really know his reputation. What was odd was repeating it to a radio station before even discussing it with the Prime Minister.  Interesting that The Guardian chose to write an article about it, given you'd think enough journalists would know his reputation.

I didn't know anything about him until I heard him on ABC RN last night. I missed the very beginning of the interview but then I realised that he had just received this info as a leak from a journalist and was sharing this info with an international audience before he had even shared it with Jacinda, much less his own country! Everything he said and how he said it was really really odd. He seemed a very strange person to have as Deputy PM. I was second guessing myself thinking he was in opposition - no, Deputy PM is on the same side as Jacinda. Wow - some really weird vibes there. That is another feather in her cap - leading her country with him as her deputy. She is even more amazing than we already knew.

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Romeo Void

Oh wow....that's interesting isn't it!

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