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COVID-19 coronavirus thread #7

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Lucrezia Bauble

lol, the Gary Bloody Owen Hotel. not sure if that will be the smoking gun for sydney - normally (pre Covid) you could fire a canon through there and not hit anyone. so, sorry to disappoint, don’t think that will be the one for sydney. maybe i’ll be proven wrong - the Tangara school is worrying .

 

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Just Another Cat
7 hours ago, purplekitty said:

There's an enquiry in process which DA has appeared at.

Journalists continuing to dominate DA press conferences with the same 'gotcha' questions day after day is doing the public a disservice.

I have to ask why Gladys isn't facing the same for the Ruby Princess.

Victorians have wanted to hear information about restrictions and COVID numbers, the things that are effecting them at this minute.

It's like firemen standing at a fire arguing over who started the fire for hours rather than putting out the flames.

 

The journalists just want their next headline, so annoying.

I like the firemen analogy. 

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purplekitty
2 hours ago, ljbellus said:

 

I feel torn between the two sentiments. I want answers and agree it's his job as boss of the state to provide them but it is getting sad now and I feel sorry for him. He looks out of his depth and he would know that some areas of his cabinet made decisions that resulted in the situation we are in here in Vic. This must weigh on him terribly. Just the decisions someone made about not using ADF are bad enough and I fear there will be more. Maybe he should reduce the amount of time he spends doing these briefings?

In a statement, Ms Reynolds said an application for 850 ADF personnel to assist with quarantining returning travellers was made on June 24 before it was withdrawn the following day.

“ADF officials asked whether Victorian authorities required assistance with its mandatory quarantine system on multiple occasions,” she said.

“No request for quarantine support was subsequently received from Victoria at that time.

“On 12 April 2020, Victorian authorities reaffirmed to ADF officials that all quarantine compliance monitoring operations were within Victorian authorities’ capacity.”

Are you sure this is what happened?

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ljbellus

Looks like it and more. I just watched the replay of today's questions. Too much time on my hands (lockdown) and a nerd for this stuff.  Find it fascinating!  but it is not looking good for some in the current Vic gov already.

If anyone else is interested.

https://www.parliament.vic.gov.au/paec/inquiry/1000

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purplekitty
46 minutes ago, ljbellus said:

Looks like it and more. I just watched the replay of today's questions. Too much time on my hands (lockdown) and a nerd for this stuff.  Find it fascinating!  but it is not looking good for some in the current Vic gov already.

 

According to Ms. Reynolds.

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Wonderstruck
3 hours ago, JRA said:

Sadly I can see things going downhill in Sydney. Excerpt from the ABC blog. I must admit I am not sure why they just dont take away their licence

The Garry Owen Hotel in Rozelle has been slapped with $10,000 in fines after being declared the worst pub in NSW for COVID-19 safety by the industry regulator.
   
The NSW Liquor and Gaming Authority described the hotel in Sydney's inner-west as having a "complete disregard for mandated COVID safety measures".
  
Liquor and Gaming's director of compliance, Dimitri Argeres said the breaches shocked COVID safety inspectors.
  
"This would probably be the most blatant non-compliance we've seen with the public health orders so far," Mr Argeres said. 
   
Inspectors identified several issues during their visit, including management not enforcing sign-in registration, not maintaining physical distancing and not ensuring patrons were seated.

I used to live in the area and am moving back in later in the year. It doesn't surprise me to see this, not for the particular pub necessarily, but the area (there are many more popular pubs in the area). Most cafes/restaurants and pubs in the area and most parts of Sydney's Inner West are run out of small cottages and terraces. Pre-covid you'd have tables and people packed in. Most are lucky to have a tiny courtyard or just a few small tables on the footpath. 

We'll be sticking to takeaway for a while longer. It's not possible to easily social distance in such places not to say they shouldn't be trying their hardest.

We are mostly living in stage 3 restrictions by choice - it feels like the right thing to do. We work from home unless we have to attend the workplace for a particular reason. We do the groceries. DD goes to day care. I take her to physio, OT and swimmimg lessons. I go to antenatal appointments...That's about it. 

I don't even mind people going out for a  occasional meal - I don't get the going from place to place or being out everyday. Just because you can do it doesn't mean you should. 

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Fahrook

I’m a little tired of the LNP, Murdoch press and others peddling the lie that ADF support was offered and repeatedly knocked back.  It simply isn’t true.  ADF were only offering transportation and planning support.

Statement from the Victorian Emergency Management Commissioner regarding ADF Assistance for Hotel Quarantine - 

“I can confirm that the Australian Defence Force (ADF) were involved in the initial planning of the hotel quarantine program. Representatives of the ADF participated in the Operation Soteria planning and coordination meetings on 27 and 28 March 2020. During these discussions I did not seek nor did representatives of the ADF offer assistance as part of the hotel quarantine program.

Subsequent communications with the ADF on the 12th and 15th of April did not relate to ADF assistance as part of the program.

As the Victorian Emergency Management Commissioner I am enormously grateful for all of the assistance our colleagues in the Australian Defence Force have provided as we have responded together to the coronavirus pandemic.”

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WaitForMe
12 hours ago, ljbellus said:

 

I feel torn between the two sentiments. I want answers and agree it's his job as boss of the state to provide them but it is getting sad now and I feel sorry for him. He looks out of his depth and he would know that some areas of his cabinet made decisions that resulted in the situation we are in here in Vic. This must weigh on him terribly. Just the decisions someone made about not using ADF are bad enough and I fear there will be more. Maybe he should reduce the amount of time he spends doing these briefings?

In a statement, Ms Reynolds said an application for 850 ADF personnel to assist with quarantining returning travellers was made on June 24 before it was withdrawn the following day.

“ADF officials asked whether Victorian authorities required assistance with its mandatory quarantine system on multiple occasions,” she said.

“No request for quarantine support was subsequently received from Victoria at that time.

“On 12 April 2020, Victorian authorities reaffirmed to ADF officials that all quarantine compliance monitoring operations were within Victorian authorities’ capacity.”

June 24? The horse had well and truly bolted by then. I remember at the time being a little surprised by that but then the hotel quarantine program was put on hold shortly after.

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IamzFeralz

Was the ADF also slow to offer help to other State hotel quarantine programs such as NSW?  Not sure what proportion the Sydney program was overseen by the police or the ADF.  If there was a similar reaction  by the ADF of just hanging around the margins with other States and letting other agencies doing the dirty work as well then that would be a pattern.

It should have definitely been a Federal matter since it’s so interconnected to immigration and detention.  Does anyone know which parties advocated for it to be run by the States?

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Ernegirl
13 hours ago, Ruf~Feral~es said:

I don't think he looks out of his depth.  I think he looks exhausted, but in control, and very calm in the face of hostile, and often stupid, questions.

It is the same questions over and over again.  He has an independent inquiry looking into it.  He is getting on with the job of managing TODAY and TOMORROW - the questions of why we didn't learn the lessons of overseas, the aged care breakouts, quarantine will be dealt with, and are bigger than just Dan Andrews.

I have the utmost respect for him fronting the media day in and day out.  I have less respect for the inane questions over and over again.  And less again for Scomo who is not copping the same treatment about Aged Care, which is squarely his issue. 

Ditto.

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Ernegirl
13 hours ago, Fifteenyears said:

And there is a chance that putting the entire senior school into 14 days isolation the day the first case was notified might prevent it from spreading too widely either within the school population or outside it.

That's true. 

I believe Ireland is mandating masks for high school students when they resume schooling shortly.

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WaitForMe
1 hour ago, IamzFeralz said:

Was the ADF also slow to offer help to other State hotel quarantine programs such as NSW?  Not sure what proportion the Sydney program was overseen by the police or the ADF.  If there was a similar reaction  by the ADF of just hanging around the margins with other States and letting other agencies doing the dirty work as well then that would be a pattern.

It should have definitely been a Federal matter since it’s so interconnected to immigration and detention.  Does anyone know which parties advocated for it to be run by the States?

Yeah definitely should've been federal - biosecurity, customs, immigration, even our dogs quarantine is a federal issue.

If theres one thing Scotty is good at it appears to be shirking responsibility. "Let me know if you need anything..." appears to be his idea of leadership.

 

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Fahrook
1 hour ago, IamzFeralz said:

It should have definitely been a Federal matter since it’s so interconnected to immigration and detention.  Does anyone know which parties advocated for it to be run by the States?

It was a national cabinet decision so not sure who advocated for it to be run by the states, but we do know that if Dan hadn’t pushed Scomo for the hotel quarantine set up that international returnees would still have been trusted to isolate at home.  Given Scomo’s lack of leadership I would think he was more than happy to let the states run it.

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JRA
8 minutes ago, WaitForMe said:

Yeah definitely should've been federal - biosecurity, customs, immigration, even our dogs quarantine is a federal issue.

If theres one thing Scotty is good at it appears to be shirking responsibility. "Let me know if you need anything..." appears to be his idea of leadership.

 

Federal are great at quarantining every animal that comes in to Australia, but it seems when it was people, and not illegal immigrants, it became a state responsibility. One can only wonder

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Riotproof

And these are questions journalists should be asking at a federal level. But they are not. 

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Soontobegran

One thing I have learned about Daniel Andrews is that he is unlikely to lie. I am not sure about anyone else but I think the man is a decent and honest person and if he says he was not personally consulted about having the ADF then he wasn't.

I watch with interest.

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can'tstayaway
15 hours ago, born.a.girl said:

The difference in the frozen goods, if those surfaces are responsible, is the length of time the virus had to sit there, deteriorating all of the time.

From all accounts, if you had five infected people all over the school, then left the school vacant for ?X days, then the virus wouldn't survive.

That's why I'm wondering, if it is on a surface, if it's been on there for many, many days, or only minutes.

 

There are plenty of reports that Covid19 survives for longer in cooler temperatures. I think it was a Hong Kong or Singaporean study that showed it surviving at 4C for 2 weeks and for several months in a frozen state.  The virus was still viable afterwards. The surface was important too. It’s less likely to survive on cardboard but highly able to stay viable for days on plastic at room temperature. 

It’s not the food itself that’s the risk but the packaging being handled by different people. If one person touched a contaminated parcel,  and then rubbed their nose, it is a potentially point for transmission. Good hygiene practices are so important. 

I think one of the reasons Australian schools have been relatively successful in managing the spread of Covid, is that if a case is identified (with our mass testing), the school is closed.  Students are meant to stay home and the school is deep cleaned. It stops the potential for further transmissions from surfaces as well as from each other. This differs from some schools overseas (for example Israel) which was only asking for the infected students to isolate without closing the school for deep cleaning.  

It’s a multi prong approach that is working when the initial case can be identified quickly. 

15 hours ago, RichardParker said:

Yeah but we can increase the diagnostic capability  - its not cheap, but it's nothing compared to the economic cost of lockdowns.  The PCR machines are available in Australia - they take up the space of a largish printer - they could be installed in every hospital in the country - the kits themselves are relatively cheap and plentiful - there is an army of unemployed people able to be trained - take the staff straight from the airlines, perhaps.

The cynic in me thinks that the centralised pathology labs are making a killing at the moment and don't want any competition.  At the beginning of this pandemic, there were only about 7 test kits registered on the ARTG, now there are over 60 - but the testing rate hasn't increased by the same proportion. There's a bottle-neck somewhere.

Unfortunately, the economic cost can be broken into two categories - public or private.   Although costs to the private sector will have flow on effects to the public sector (reduced taxes, more supports etc), it’s rarely taken into account when determining ‘cost’ to the government. 

It no longer is just a matter of access to the testing equipment, it the value of the test results for the cost of running them. The information is like the NAPLAN - it’s a point in time snapshot. Today’s result isn’t as relevant tomorrow, except as part of a trend. For the cost of the testing, those resources could be better deployed elsewhere.  

In Victoria, it seems one of the consistent weak points are Covid positive people not following quarantine protocols.  There were the hotel quarantine breaches and the hundreds of people who should have been quarantining at home still going out. Those people are the ones causing restrictions needing to be extended because they are out and about, knowingly spreading the virus. Potentially, that is where resources should be spent.  Theoretically, if everyone did everything perfectly, level 4 restrictions would work in just 2 weeks. Unfortunately, that’s not how people behave which is why it needs longer to succeed. 

As for the pathology labs making a killing - the one private lab I know about, Covid is hurting their business but they are participating because it’s the right, community minded thing to do. The government rebate just covers costs of the materials and labour to collect and process the samples. The costs of setting up pop up clinics is being borne by themselves to help protect their staff and other patients in the regular clinics. There are/were reduced numbers of people getting other tests done (their regular business) because people have chosen to not go out/be a burden on the health system.  This hasn’t been a booming profit generating period for them. 

15 hours ago, WaitForMe said:

Given its airborne or at least droplets in the air, I think it demonstrates that kids aren't big transmitter, which is what the experts have said.

I can't really compare to gastro as thats a primarily surface transmitted virus. I have become increasingly vigilant with hygiene over my parenting years and now frequently manage to avoid it... except that time a child vomited on my face *shudder*. But I don't need to wear a mask, for instance.

TMI warning - gastro talk...

Gastro isn’t a respiratory illness but it can be transmitted via airborne particles (vomiting, toilet flushing etc). Masks would help reduce the chances of catching gastro for the mask wearing person because it would reduce the chance of airborne particles getting into the mouth. 

It’s still early days about the information we know about Covid and how it responds in different people. There have been cases where young children have had very high viral loads detected and other studies that show children have very low levels. It’s questionable whether older high school students are categorised as children or adults because they are adult like in body size.  I don’t think we have had Australian data that’s been released of schools/childcare where there have been outbreaks without a family source.  It’s not proving or disproving the theory that children are not big transmitters. 

What the Australian context is showing, is that widespread testing for early identification and a school closures and deep cleaning is also important. 

7 hours ago, Fahrook said:

I’m a little tired of the LNP, Murdoch press and others peddling the lie that ADF support was offered and repeatedly knocked back.  It simply isn’t true.  ADF were only offering transportation and planning support.

Yes. 

2 hours ago, WaitForMe said:

June 24? The horse had well and truly bolted by then. I remember at the time being a little surprised by that but then the hotel quarantine program was put on hold shortly after.

Yes, international arrivals to Melbourne was put on hold 29 June along with the restrictions across specific postcodes. 

It would make sense to rescind a request for extra personnel to supervise hotel quarantine if there were not going to be anyone in quarantine. 

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purplekitty
1 hour ago, Soontobegran said:

One thing I have learned about Daniel Andrews is that he is unlikely to lie. I am not sure about anyone else but I think the man is a decent and honest person and if he says he was not personally consulted about having the ADF then he wasn't.

I watch with interest.

This campaign by trolls on social media and Murdoch minions is because he is a threat in State and Federal politics.They are terrified he will transfer to Federal  politics.

I hope he does, he would make a great PM.

It terrifies me that Australia,which has always has some radar for BS,seems to be following the US in its gullibility.

 

 

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purplekitty

 

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Lucrezia Bauble

the NZ cases are truly bizarre - could it be that they never actually eradicated it but it was there all along, bubbling away among non symptomatic people until it got someone who came down with symptoms?

the NSW numbers are still making me nervous, although i thought this graph was interesting (it’s from the smh - it’s embedded in their front page online blog)

 

DDFE62A6-85FA-42CE-9BD4-3678CB27EF77.jpeg

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can'tstayaway

^^^  I was never much of a fan of Brendan Murphy and his behaviour here is just demonstrating how much of a political lackey he is. 

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Zeppelina
3 minutes ago, can'tstayaway said:

^^^  I was never much of a fan of Brendan Murphy and his behaviour here is just demonstrating how much of a political lackey he is. 

Yes I was disappointed but not at all surprised when reading about this yesterday.

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blimkybill
4 minutes ago, Lucrezia Bauble said:

the NZ cases are truly bizarre - could it be that they never actually eradicated it but it was there all along, bubbling away among non symptomatic people until it got someone who came down with symptoms?

the NSW numbers are still making me nervous, although i thought this graph was interesting (it’s from the smh - it’s embedded in their front page online blog)

 

DDFE62A6-85FA-42CE-9BD4-3678CB27EF77.jpeg

I have been somewhat reassured this morning, NSW numbers are low again. And nearly all the cases in NSW in recent weeks have been traced, no mystery cases. 

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Riotproof

I think that seems to be the thing Nsw is doing really well, the tracing. 
I imagine once you get to higher numbers, it is just that much more difficult to try and track the source for each case. 

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