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mumof3girls2019

Pulling out of prep

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DaLittleEd
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Bam1

We have had a simliar problem with our DS and pulling out this year does seem to be best but be aware that you may just be delaying the issue if its school structure that’s causing the issue. She can’t learn how to deal with school if she is not in school. Another year of maturity may help but may not be the full solution.

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mumof3girls2019

In the state school system in Qld our department has already advised us (principals) that some parents may wish to push pause on prep for this year and re-enrol next year, given the dodgy start to the year.

 

I also had a premmie (mine a 27 weeker) and prem babies can have higher anxiety rates which can certainly lead to meltdowns. (though the study was based on babies born prior to 30 weeks)

 

If you do restart prep next year I highly recommend she engage in Kindy for a few days per week. It is in my opinion an vital preparation for the formality of prep and we note a big difference in those who haven't been to kindy.

 

Very interesting that this is the advice that the principals are given in the state system. Our principal told us that BCE are pretty much dead against repeating (at the same school anyway) but I told them on no uncertain terms that there would be no blood lost there! I never thought I’d be one to be so vocal towards our school principal but there’s so many things about the school and it’s routine that I wasn’t expecting and I find a bit counterintuitive.

 

Yes she absolutely would be going back to a kindy, this is a non-negotiable for us!

 

And yes I’m aware of premmies having higher rates of emotional dysregulation and anxiety, it is something we were made aware of by our OT very early on given her high needs traits. And although she was born at 32 weeks, she was very growth restricted so was the size of a 28 weeker. Which we believe made a difference!

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Babetty

I have no experience or expertise at all in this area, but it sounds as though the current school is completely the wrong fit for your child anyway. So it seems as though the choice is whether to transfer her to prep at the state school now (well, when face to face teaching goes back) or enrol her in kindy again.

 

One aspect that might be worth considering is that if you go the kindy option it's 2 changes - to kindy then to state school. Whereas if she sticks in prep, it one change, to the new school.

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quartz85

Have a look at this.

 

https://ricepsychology.com/behavior/the-after-school-restraint-collapse-helping-your-child-overcome-their-emotional-buildup-from-school/

 

My son had meltdowns most afternoons during his FYOS. The perfect angel all day. Then the minute we walked in the front door it was just horrible.

 

Things that helped was feeding him the minute he was picked up at school. He often walked to the car eating a banana. Not talking to him or asking anything of him.

 

He spent all day regulating his behaviour at school (and doing really well at if, thriving), when he was in his safe space at home, the primitive brain took over and let everything out. Year 1 has been so much better. But last year was rather distressing.

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kerilyntaryn

I would switch to the public system this year, they generally are more supportive than private, anxiety and perfectionism are big things with girls with ASD. Another year in kindy won't really help, I say the best thing is see a developmental pediatrician or a psychologist specialising in ASD. Use this time off school to sort the medical issues, girls with ASD are hard to diagnose, but the sooner they can get support the better

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PrincessPeach

Qld state schools are not a fan of repeating kids either, but it is at least possible without needing formal reports or paperwork.

 

I know of 2 kids at our school who repeated prep - principal was not happy with one (i was talking with her mum) but the parents just said this is being done - end of story.

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.Jerry.

Agree that we are normally not a fan of repeating kids, however what we are talking about is not really repeating, but pausing.

It's not doing a full year then again, but writing off the first 7 weeks and just trying again next year.

 

Repeating can have long term negative impacts on students, but if you are going to do it, prep is when to do it.

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FeralZombieMum

My oldest, DD1 started school at 4 years of age, and didn't turn 5 until the end of April. Some of her classmates were turning 7 in FYOS!

 

We eventually had her repeat grade 6.

 

My youngest is end of March - we waited that extra year and it was the best for him.

 

I had one who had similar issues but has ASD (subsequently diagnosed Aspergers back then, after a few years in school). Prior to the diagnosis though they were challenging with a lot of what you describe - note, I am in no way implying your child has ASD, and saw a psychologist to try and assist them with anxiety and behavioural issues.

 

This is my DD1 too - she has ASD (diagnosed at 9 years) and ADHD (diagnosed around her 6th birthday)

 

In our case, even though they were young and turning 5yo soon after starting school the psych felt that we may as well send them as we would be in the same position no matter how many years we left it. Other kids may be different though with different development and needs so expert opinion combined with parent knowledge of child is best.

 

This is what we were told year later for DD1, but I do think an extra year of maturity would have helped some issues she experienced in FYOS.

 

 

I guess the thing for us is, she has always been a high needs kid with trouble with emotional regulation but she apparently holds it all in very well at school

 

Very common for some kids to hold it in all day. They use up so much energy to hold it in, and once school is finished, they are able to let go. They can also behave worse for the person they feel safest with - ie mum.

 

Think of her like a coke bottle, being shaken throughout the day. When school is over, is when the lid is taken off and coke explodes everywhere. ;)

 

I believe most of the strategies are not about dealing with the meltdown but helping put in supports and strategies so it doesn't get to that point.

 

Very much this.

School could assist with some interventions. Even after school you can make changes. My DD1 didn't like to be asked about her day. It was best to not ask her questions when I collected her, and to give her about an hour to wind down after school. On the worst days, going straight to have a bath with bicarb in a cup to play with (for sensory play), made a huge difference for us. I also didn't take her anywhere after school - like to the shops - I learnt that one a few years too late.

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FeralZombieMum

Yes we have also wondered about ASD but the psychologist seems pretty adamant this isn't an issue and is more likely anxiety, perfectionism etc. I have another appointment with the psychologist tomorrow and will bring this up with her.

 

My DD1's traits were perfectionism and anxiety.

 

My DD's paed dismissed ASD for a few years, I actually asked him at a few visits. We saw a psychologist a couple of times. Neither were qualified to diagnose ASD, and it felt like we got the run around for a few years before we saw a psychologist that specialised in ASD.

 

It wasn't until years later (thanks to EB) that I found out about developmental paeds. If only I could have gone back in time.

 

If I were you, I would find a specialist, and have her assessed properly - that way you know how best to help your DD.

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blueskies12

 

My DD1's traits were perfectionism and anxiety.

 

My DD's paed dismissed ASD for a few years, I actually asked him at a few visits. We saw a psychologist a couple of times. Neither were qualified to diagnose ASD, and it felt like we got the run around for a few years before we saw a psychologist that specialised in ASD.

 

It wasn't until years later (thanks to EB) that I found out about developmental paeds. If only I could have gone back in time.

 

If I were you, I would find a specialist, and have her assessed properly - that way you know how best to help your DD.

 

I completely agree. Is it possible that you have her checked by a developmental paed?

 

I am also not saying that your daughter has ASD. My son has ASD, also was a prem. He is repeating his second year of kindy this year and was coming home after kindy and having meltdowns. Since the holidays and since stopping kindy he is so much better. Not perfect, but much improved. He said he doesn't miss kindy. So this makes me think that we just need different strategies in place.

 

I definitely think you know what is best in regards to the school.

 

I don't think it would make much difference finishing this year with kindy and looking at a developmental paed/OT etc.

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Chaotic Pogo

Another ASD family - if you are able to get an appointment with a dev paed please do.

 

She does check a number of flags. That does not mean she has ASD, just that she meets the 'screening criteria' to have a proper assessment by a professional / specialist in the area.

 

So many of us wish we could turn back the clock - so much more you can do the younger you know about it, if that is what is going on.

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Froggilicious

Just coming in to say that if you were in Vic, she wouldn't even be in prep until next year (I know this has been said by PPs but worth repeating).

 

My DD is 5 in June, was born at term and didn't have any of the challenges you've had with your little one. And I am still so glad I didn't have to send her to school this this year like my nieces and nephews of the same age in different states.

 

So, no experience and not a recommendation as such, but your DD will be fine if you hold her back for a year :)

 

Given she is a feb baby she would be within the cutoff for school in Vic.

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Julie3Girls

Joining the choir here..

 

A lot of what you are saying matches my oldest. We ended up with a borderline ASD diagnosis in her teens.

ASD is really hard to diagnose in girls, they are so much better at hiding it than boys, they don’t have the same traits. Anxiety and perfectionism are massive signs.

Many girls aren’t diagnosed until they hit their teens, when the social issues become more of a problem.

 

Of course, it might not be asd, but it honestly sounds like there is some issue there, she is obviously using so much energy to fit at school and meet expectations, (academically, socially, emotionally?), that when she gets home to her safe place, with you, she just lets it all go, dumping all the stress of the day.

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mumof3girls2019

Thanks everyone for your replies- I’ll try to reply individually but I just wanted to give an update to the post.

 

We have decided to pull her out of prep and send her to the local C&K kindy. She is having her first day today.

 

We visited there yesterday and she had a little play and she just looked so happy and carefree. My gut told me instantly that that was where she belonged this year. And the Teacher there was very understanding of our position and seemed very supportive in helping DD build her emotional resilience this year.

 

There were no tears at kindy drop-off this morning which was also incredible- there wasn’t one day all of term 1 of prep that she didn’t bawl her eyes out. Granted I could stay for a bit at kindy to settle her in but that’s the beauty of an environment like that.

 

It’s hard to get past the fact that she’s so much taller and therefore appears so much older than the other kids but when I watch her interact with them, this doesn’t seem to even be an issue. Kids don’t notice these sorts of things I think and if they do, they are so matter of fact about it! Haha.

 

We have started the process of getting her assessed by our psychologist for anxiety and then to a paediatrician if she believes there is underlying ASD - most probably not but it’s something we’ll keep in mind.

 

Will keep you al updated as the year goes on!

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mumof3girls2019
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mumof3girls2019

Joining the choir here..

 

A lot of what you are saying matches my oldest. We ended up with a borderline ASD diagnosis in her teens.

ASD is really hard to diagnose in girls, they are so much better at hiding it than boys, they don’t have the same traits. Anxiety and perfectionism are massive signs.

Many girls aren’t diagnosed until they hit their teens, when the social issues become more of a problem.

 

Of course, it might not be asd, but it honestly sounds like there is some issue there, she is obviously using so much energy to fit at school and meet expectations, (academically, socially, emotionally?), that when she gets home to her safe place, with you, she just lets it all go, dumping all the stress of the day.

 

Thank you for your reply. I’ve never met a parent with a child with a “borderline” ASD diagnosis so it’s interesting to hear from you! I’ve only ever met overt ASD kids and it’s very obvious that isn’t what we are dealing with!

 

Yes I think (although I’m no expert!) that we will end up with a very borderline ASD diagnosis. She has some of the traits (massive sensory seeker - can’t sit still even to watch TV, oversensitivity to loud noises, perfectionist, separation anxiety, and is impatient when the attention isn’t on her.)

 

But she has some very normal traits too, she’s very articulate, socially very adept, emotionally very aware of her and others emotions, academically mid-range/slightly above average. She doesn’t have any perculuar hobbies or obsessions either.

 

Anyway it will be interesting to see how the rest of the year pans out!

 

How did your daughter’s diagnosis impact on her and yourself?

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mumof3girls2019

 

 

My DD1's traits were perfectionism and anxiety.

 

My DD's paed dismissed ASD for a few years, I actually asked him at a few visits. We saw a psychologist a couple of times. Neither were qualified to diagnose ASD, and it felt like we got the run around for a few years before we saw a psychologist that specialised in ASD.

 

It wasn't until years later (thanks to EB) that I found out about developmental paeds. If only I could have gone back in time.

 

If I were you, I would find a specialist, and have her assessed properly - that way you know how best to help your DD.

 

After our appointment with the psychologist yesterday she actually changed her tune and has said that she thinks that is is now worthwhile to look into an ASD diagnosis, but that we need to explore the avenue of anxiety alone first and then once she gets to know DD more she’ll decide whether it’s worth the referral to the developments paed. I’m open to it to be honest, although of course we’d be somewhat disappointed if she does have ASD, it would in fact explain some of her behaviours.

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mumof3girls2019

I would switch to the public system this year, they generally are more supportive than private, anxiety and perfectionism are big things with girls with ASD. Another year in kindy won't really help, I say the best thing is see a developmental pediatrician or a psychologist specialising in ASD. Use this time off school to sort the medical issues, girls with ASD are hard to diagnose, but the sooner they can get support the better

 

Yes this was definitely one of the options we considered. It’s so hard at the moment with all the school closures though. I think if schools were open as normal then we would have done this. The deputy of the local state school is fully supportive of our decision either way, but she said that she wouldn’t recommend that DD starts there until school starts back full-time, which she was guessing would be term 3.

 

The problem here is that she very well may miss out on the entire curriculum of term 2 if we do that, as 1) we are doing hardly any homeschooling at all right now, maybe 30 minutes a day- DD is so willing but her two younger sisters make it almost impossible. And 2) I don’t want her going back to her current school once school reopens in term 2. So we are stuck in a weird limbo where she would have basically missed all of term 2.

 

However of course the deputy of the state school admitted herself that she doesnt really know what’s going to happen with the schooling system, she was just guessing that students would go back part-time for the remainder of term 2. She was hesitant to have DD start at the state school part-time as it would only add to her separation anxiety. Understandably.

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Julie3Girls

 

 

Thank you for your reply. I’ve never met a parent with a child with a “borderline” ASD diagnosis so it’s interesting to hear from you! I’ve only ever met overt ASD kids and it’s very obvious that isn’t what we are dealing with!

 

Yes I think (although I’m no expert!) that we will end up with a very borderline ASD diagnosis. She has some of the traits (massive sensory seeker - can’t sit still even to watch TV, oversensitivity to loud noises, perfectionist, separation anxiety, and is impatient when the attention isn’t on her.)

 

But she has some very normal traits too, she’s very articulate, socially very adept, emotionally very aware of her and others emotions, academically mid-range/slightly above average. She doesn’t have any perculuar hobbies or obsessions either.

 

Anyway it will be interesting to see how the rest of the year pans out!

 

How did your daughter’s diagnosis impact on her and yourself?

Going back to age 5 ..

Dd started school at 5.5 (June birthday). She could have started a year early (nsw) at the very young end, but having having her preschool it was an easy choice - all the friends she made were in the younger half of the group, she didn’t end up the oldest anyway.

 

Anyway at 5, there were really no signs. Academically she was very bright, she was having no problems socially. Very in touch with her emotions. Very imaginative, very loving. No obsessions. A bundle of energy (which is why we put her into dance) but still had good attention span - would happily sit and do puzzles, colour in, watch a movie.

Year before school, we would still often get tears at preschool drop off.

But when she started school at 5.5, we had absolutely no issues. Headed off without a backward glance. She thrived in school, loving the structure.

 

Problems started showing up around yr2. Started to get seperation anxiety again, perfectionist traits were increasing - not wanting to answer questions in class unless she was 100% sure of an answer.

 

In upper primary, the social stuff really started to show through more. ASD girls tend to model on other girls, and as a result, social problems don’t really show up early on. Not quite fitting in made her a target for bullying, which increased the anxiety.

I spoke to the school so many times, all her teachers always assured me there were no issues to worry about, that there was nothing wrong.

 

Yr7 was when the world collapsed - massive anxiety issues, the school picked up on some issues, both emotional and academic . We started with psychologist. Ended up with a diagnosis of dyslexia. Testing showed she was incredibly bright, but big problems with her spelling and writing. Reading was ok, just a bit slower.

Because she was so intelligent, the dyslexia brought her grades down, but still in a high/average category rather than showing how bright she really is. So since she wasn’t struggling in terms of grades, the teachers didn’t notice. But Dd was also working incredibly hard to get those grades, especially when she saw how much easier it was for other kids, so it was a big factor in her anxiety.

 

We talked about “other” issues at the time, but the psychologist at the time was unsure - she was showing some ASD traits, but not enough, and it all fitted with anxiety. Ended up at that point with dyslexia and generalised anxiety disorder.

With help for the dyslexia and anxiety, things balanced out a bit.

 

We needed her reassessed in yr11 for hsc provisions. This was when we formally got the level 1 ASD diagnosis, with comments from the psychologist that the diagnosis is borderline.

It was a hard call, because most of the asd traits only were an issue at school, in an environment that was causing her anxiety. Socially, things got so much harder in those last few years of school, coping strategies she had worked out from early years stopped working.

 

In a one on one, she has always been much better. She’s great with adults, and younger kids adore her.

 

Impact of the diagnosis ... from me, it was a bit scary, putting a “label” on her. ultimately, made no real difference, it just gave an explanation for some of her quirks.

But Dd found it was a relief. It explained to her why she had so much trouble fitting it, that it wasn’t something she did or didn’t do, it was just how she was. I think it made feel more at ease with herself?

 

No negative impact of the diagnosis. It actually helped a bit at school, with a few teachers responding better with a label, Other, better teachers, had been accepting of her quirks regardless.

 

Honestly, if I was you, I’d do a bit of research specifically into asd in girls. There are quite a few good books around. It presents very differently to boys, so all the “usual” identifying characteristics don’t necessarily apply.

 

Whoops, probably far more than you wanted to know! Lol

 

 

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Chaotic Pogo

I’m Level 1 myself and not diagnosed until I was 43.

 

DD and I got our formal diagnoses on the same day.

 

I did a lot of reading about ASD in girls/ women, plus plenty of personal experience. The more you say, the more it fits the classic ‘girl’ profile.

 

You will never know less about ASD than you do right now - that’s just the way it is. We might all be barking totally up the wrong tree - but please try to see a ‘good’ dev paed as soon as possible, no matter what the psych says.

 

If the psych is a general kids psych and not one that does ASD day in day out, EB experience suggests they will miss the girls / delay an extra 2 years than boys.

 

Don’t even ask for the GP s opinion, just tell them you are there to get a referral to dev paed named xyz because it was recommended. GPs usually know less about it than general psychs.

 

Post a thread asking EB to PM you recommendations for a dev paed in your area. They take a long time to get into so it’s worth getting onto a wait list right away, especially right now with he virus.

 

You can always cancel, but you can’t go back in time :)

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mumof3girls2019

Going back to age 5 ..

Dd started school at 5.5 (June birthday). She could have started a year early (nsw) at the very young end, but having having her preschool it was an easy choice - all the friends she made were in the younger half of the group, she didn’t end up the oldest anyway.

 

Anyway at 5, there were really no signs. Academically she was very bright, she was having no problems socially. Very in touch with her emotions. Very imaginative, very loving. No obsessions. A bundle of energy (which is why we put her into dance) but still had good attention span - would happily sit and do puzzles, colour in, watch a movie.

Year before school, we would still often get tears at preschool drop off.

But when she started school at 5.5, we had absolutely no issues. Headed off without a backward glance. She thrived in school, loving the structure.

 

Problems started showing up around yr2. Started to get seperation anxiety again, perfectionist traits were increasing - not wanting to answer questions in class unless she was 100% sure of an answer.

 

In upper primary, the social stuff really started to show through more. ASD girls tend to model on other girls, and as a result, social problems don’t really show up early on. Not quite fitting in made her a target for bullying, which increased the anxiety.

I spoke to the school so many times, all her teachers always assured me there were no issues to worry about, that there was nothing wrong.

 

Yr7 was when the world collapsed - massive anxiety issues, the school picked up on some issues, both emotional and academic . We started with psychologist. Ended up with a diagnosis of dyslexia. Testing showed she was incredibly bright, but big problems with her spelling and writing. Reading was ok, just a bit slower.

Because she was so intelligent, the dyslexia brought her grades down, but still in a high/average category rather than showing how bright she really is. So since she wasn’t struggling in terms of grades, the teachers didn’t notice. But Dd was also working incredibly hard to get those grades, especially when she saw how much easier it was for other kids, so it was a big factor in her anxiety.

 

We talked about “other” issues at the time, but the psychologist at the time was unsure - she was showing some ASD traits, but not enough, and it all fitted with anxiety. Ended up at that point with dyslexia and generalised anxiety disorder.

With help for the dyslexia and anxiety, things balanced out a bit.

 

We needed her reassessed in yr11 for hsc provisions. This was when we formally got the level 1 ASD diagnosis, with comments from the psychologist that the diagnosis is borderline.

It was a hard call, because most of the asd traits only were an issue at school, in an environment that was causing her anxiety. Socially, things got so much harder in those last few years of school, coping strategies she had worked out from early years stopped working.

 

In a one on one, she has always been much better. She’s great with adults, and younger kids adore her.

 

Impact of the diagnosis ... from me, it was a bit scary, putting a “label” on her. ultimately, made no real difference, it just gave an explanation for some of her quirks.

But Dd found it was a relief. It explained to her why she had so much trouble fitting it, that it wasn’t something she did or didn’t do, it was just how she was. I think it made feel more at ease with herself?

 

No negative impact of the diagnosis. It actually helped a bit at school, with a few teachers responding better with a label, Other, better teachers, had been accepting of her quirks regardless.

 

Honestly, if I was you, I’d do a bit of research specifically into asd in girls. There are quite a few good books around. It presents very differently to boys, so all the “usual” identifying characteristics don’t necessarily apply.

 

Whoops, probably far more than you wanted to know! Lol

 

Thank you for your reply! Quite a lot of information there BUT very appreciative, to see what the future could possibly hold.

 

Our behavioural psychologist does in fact specialist in ASD kids so we are in the best hands. She is currently treating DD Just for anxiety BUT she said the possibility of ASD still exists. It's hard to tell just yet as she doesn't quite know DD well enough. Is the ASD coming through as Anxiety, or is the Anxiety manifesting with ASD-Like traits? Anyway we are hoping to have a clearer idea of the situation by the time she starts Prep again next year.

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mumof3girls2019

Just a follow-up to my post.

 

DD is doing so well at Kindy, she is so confident walking in there and her separation anxiety has all but vanished. Even at home she is willing to separate from us a lot more. So she has definitely had some organic growth in her emotional maturity even without specific strategies for that.

 

She is unfortunately one of the oldest in her cohort at kindy (a lot of kids born jan to june 2016) but she's found some lovely girls who are also born 2015 (albeit later in the year) that she's made friends with already. She doesn't even mind the younger kids really. I really did think this would be a huge issue but she doesn't even care. I guess that she's got her little girl posse and the teachers are so lovely that the other things don't matter.

 

We are still working closely with our lovely behavioural psychologist and the question is still there as to possible ASD but as many of you mum's know, it will be a hard diagnosis to make. DD is currently being treated for anxiety but that is pretty minimal at the moment. It will be interesting to see how she goes at Prep next year. I'm hopeful that things will be much better than they were this year, based off her improving in her emotional maturity but also with the strategies from the psychologist. I'll keep you all updated!

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BusbyWilkes

After our appointment with the psychologist yesterday she actually changed her tune and has said that she thinks that is is now worthwhile to look into an ASD diagnosis, but that we need to explore the avenue of anxiety alone first and then once she gets to know DD more she’ll decide whether it’s worth the referral to the developments paed. I’m open to it to be honest, although of course we’d be somewhat disappointed if she does have ASD, it would in fact explain some of her behaviours.

 

please consider getting a referral now to a dev paed who has experience in girls with ASD. It can take a year or more to get an apt. You could get a referral, book the next available apt (which will be next year) and then continue with the great plan that you hav3 developed - back to kindy, working with a psych re anxiety etc. You can always cancel the paed apt closer to the time if you don’t need it, but you can’t get an apt quickly if you do need it.

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José

 

 

She is unfortunately one of the oldest in her cohort at kindy (a lot of kids born jan to june 2016) but she's found some lovely girls who are also born 2015 (albeit later in the year) that she's made friends with already. She doesn't even mind the younger kids really. I really did think this would be a huge issue but she doesn't even care.

 

This sounds like an indicator her social skills are delayed. She's more comfortable with the younger kids, she can understand what's going on and is herself functioning at That lower level.

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