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What would your gut reaction be?

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HolierThanCow

Is this carer easy to talk to?

 

It's probably nothing to be alarmed about (perhaps its something he played with his own kids or family?), but if it makes you uncomfortable, you should say so.

 

If you don't want to make a big issue out of it, you could frame it like, 'I know it's completely innocent, but we're trying to teach our children about body autonomy and would prefer you didn't play that game.'

 

I'm thinking about my childcare centre, and unlike most here I don't think I would be bothered by a tickling game (I think one of the middle-aged female carers has played something like this with my son). However, the social weirdness of putting it on 'for show' would make me uncomfortable and probably make me feel as you do.

 

Parents are perfectly entitled to give input (centres are supposed to encourage collaboration for best practice, are they not?), and I think it's important to let them know if something has made you uneasy or uncomfortable.

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Tiara15

Regardless if it was male or female doing that, it would make me uncomfortable and I would demand they stop immediately and report it. I think its completely inappropriate. We/they should be talking to the kids about personal space and boundaries and this behavior is not conducive to that. We don't want kids thinking its ok for anybody to touch them.

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#notallcats

It's not revolting or hypocritical to not want men in daycare settings with non-verbal and vulnerable children. . Not all men are child sex abusers but most abusers are men, and considering the stats for women who were abused in childhood it's completely understandable why parents would be wary. Same as why people are wary of putting their kids in catholic schools.

 

If the centre knows it's going on, I'd seriously consider moving on as their judgement and training is highly inadequate. .

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Crazyone26989

I’m not able to quote right now but notallcats, it is revolting. Childcare centres should have procedures in place to stop ALL staff behaving inappropriately. If this isn’t happening, then that is an issue. Having male staff is NOT the issue.

 

By your logic mothers should never leave their children alone with their fathers or other male relatives or close friends because that is who presents the most risk to children.

Edited by Crazyone26989
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SummerStar
On 21/02/2020 at 11:28 AM, #notallcats said:

 

 

Edited by SummerStar
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Dolled

I’m not able to quote right now but notallcats, it is revolting. Childcare centres should have procedures in place to stop ALL staff behaving inappropriately. If this isn’t happening, then that is an issue. Having male staff is NOT the issue.

 

 

Isn't the whole point of this thread about our own interpretations of "inappropriate"?

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SummerStar

Edited by SummerStar
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Crazyone26989

 

 

Isn't the whole point of this thread about our own interpretations of "inappropriate"?

 

Yes? I think most posters, myself included, have said that the way the carer in the OP is acting is inappropriate.

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TigerQueenofSheeba

My brother works in child care. I’m not against men in child care.

 

I am against men who play inappropriate games with children in front of the parent to gain ‘permission’ for such close unnecessary touching, grooming said parent and child.

 

I wasn't referring to you.

 

There is only one. Why not quote them and challenge them?

 

Because I couldn't be bothered at the time :shrug:

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3babygirls

When I read it I assumed female and tickling in itself wouldn't bother me. Counting the ribs bit isn't really ok.

 

I'd go with my gut feeling on this one. I know that my daughter is very affectionate and loves cuddling her educators, and i've seen her do that and never gotten a 'bad' feeling. However, if you're watching this game and it makes you feel uneasy, then bring it up.

 

As for all the comments about men not belonging in childcare, that is just awful.

Four of my friends sons have just begun working in childcare in the last 2-3 years and 2 of them have since quit because of parents automatically labelling them pedophiles and people pulling their kids out of daycares because they have men working there. It's absolutely awful. These two young men were amazing and fun carers, fantastic role models for young boys in particular. Now they are finding new careers because they couldn't take the suspicion and nasty comments from parents.

It's great seeing men in carer positions, showing how man can be caring and sensitive and nurturing.

 

I suppose fathers probably shouldn't be left alone with their kids either..

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TigerQueenofSheeba

Omg that is awful :no2:

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SummerStar
On 21/02/2020 at 12:55 PM, Bigbaubles said:

 

 

Edited by SummerStar

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~Jam~

That’s unnecessary regardless of the gender of the teacher. But I can understand why you feel even more uncomfortable when it’s a male.

 

My DD had a swimming teacher who was quite a large woman who was excessively handsy with the kids. Always trying to carry them from one place to another in the pool when DD was 5 or 6 and quite capable of walking/swimming there herself. And DD hated it as she likes to have her personal space. So I asked to be moved to another class with a different teacher. I explained our concerns simply but I don’t think the pool cared really.

 

just out of curiosity, what does her size have to do with anything?

 

and to the original post, yes, trust your gut and please speak up.

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Jennifaraway

DD4yo's daycare has one male educator. He's lovely and lots of fun. He does tend to do more sporty and "rough" type play than the women (who are more girly as a whole). But I noticed that he never just goes to touch the children without their permission - he does a lot of high fives etc. Of course the kids will climb all over him but that's on their own terms. I was really glad when he started there because he's a great role model.

 

The pulling up shirts and tickling thing is really off though. It's just a weird thing to do - unless you're the parent/family AND you know the child likes it. Doing it as a performance is even weirder. I think this needs to be taken up with the director rather than the staff member, really - if he IS dodgy and thinks you're suspicious, he's more likely to hide it better next time. If he's not dodgy then the director could organise more training for all staff, or something like that.

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born.a.girl

Isn't the whole point of this thread about our own interpretations of "inappropriate"?

 

No, not just the single word 'inappropriate' for any of the story.

 

Just the behaviour.

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born.a.girl

Because I couldn't be bothered at the time shrug.gif

 

 

That's fair enough, but there was only one, and it was referred to as 'comments', which leaves others, as you've seen, wondering if you're referring to them, and they might like the opportunity to respond, but can't if it's just a vague 'comments'.

 

Quite a few of us have mentioned the gender of the person, but not because it's inappropriate to have them there, and we've not even vaguely suggested that.

 

Our comments have clearly been along the lines of mine: that I thought men, in particular, would be aware of certain behaviours being unacceptable, and be going out of their way to avoid them.

 

That's not saying, by any stretch of the imagination that the behaviour is worse coming from a man, but in my opinion, it's certainly more surprising.

 

EFS

Edited by born.a.girl

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MuffinQueen

About 10 years ago, when my son was 3-4 years old he attended Occasional Care. One younger lady who worked there was lovely - however my son came home one day and told me this lady had been taking photos of him on her personal mobile phone. I instantly felt it wasn't right and spoke to the Manager of the Centre. She assured me that the lady had been doing it for fun - so I said to her, would you feel the same if it was a male taking photos of a child? She then agreed it wasn't ok. Not sure why it had to be explained to her in that way to make her realise it wasn't ok. Both genders can do inappropriate things to children - it's just most people assume males are instantly guilty but not females.

 

I don't have a problem with males in childcare - as a PP stated, there are females in those positions who abuse children as well. Let's forget the gender of the worker and look at their behaviour.

 

Go with your gut.

Edited by MuffinQueen
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Ozquoll
Edited by Ozquoll

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IamOzgirl

 

 

just out of curiosity, what does her size have to do with anything?

 

and to the original post, yes, trust your gut and please speak up.

 

Because she was carrying them unnecessarily and that large (and therefore often) big breasted women it hard to escape having to have your face in their boobs!

 

To OP - trust your gut. I didn't know tickling was a no no, but de makes sense. And even if it wasn't tryst your gut.

 

And as for males in childcare, I'm said that men are still feeling like they can't do the role. As someone going down the route of donor sperm, I would be very happy for my child (m or f) to have another male influence in their life.

Edited by IamOzgirl

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#notallcats

It actually is hypocritical if you believe in gender equality except that men shouldn't do certain jobs... Perhaps women should go back to the kitchen and men can do the work then no childcare would be needed?

 

It's a disgusting attitude and assumption. But you're either for gender equality or against it so its good to know your position on it. There is no "for gender equality except certain genders shouldn't do certain jobs". Revolting attitude, though not surprised.

 

If your son wanted to do childcare do you let them? Or say no son that's a woman's job.... Can't believe some people's thinking on this in this day and age...

 

Are you this outraged when women are discriminated against, like all the time? So poor men get a little discriminated against because vulnerable, non verbal children are involved. It has nothing to do with gender equality, I don't understand your argument at all. I didn't say childcare is a woman's job. Equality doesn't mean even or exactly the same btw, so no we don't have to treat genders in the exact same manner to want gender equality. It's ok to recognise the risk factors. It's not revolting or hypocritical to recognise some people will have a personal history that will sway their decisions. I didn't even say where I stand on the matter, I said it's completely understandable that some people are uncomfortable with male carers for non-verbal or very young children.

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SummerStar

Edited by SummerStar
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Kallie88

I was abused as a child, I'm very vigilant with my kids. But I don't have a problem with men in childcare, my husband works in childcare. He would never engage in a game like that with children, it's not appropriate, and he wouldn't allow female carers to either for the same reason. It's incredibly valuable for young children to see men in caring roles.

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71Cath

DS(20) has got his first job in after school care. He is really enjoying it but I wonder how many parents have the attitude that he shouldn't be looking after their kids?

 

Trust your gut OP.

 

:(

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robhat

Yes OP, you are right in feeling uneasy about this interaction between your child and the carer. A well trained educator should know not to engage in this sort of activity simply because it can be mis-construed and make parents feel uneasy when it is most important that they feel comfortable and safe to leave their children at day care.

 

Ask to have a chat with the director. Tell her about the incident, without any judgement. Explain that you don't feel comfortable about it and expect a higher level of professionalism from her staff. Let her deal with it. This is important because, either the carer is grooming (and you will have effectively reported it) or he's just a bit clueless and needs more professional training (which the director is responsible for ensuring he gets). I would not talk to the carer involved, best take it up with the director.

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GlitteryElfFarts

In cases where someone has experienced or has knowledge of someone else experiencing abuse, I can understand them being uncomfortable with either male or female abusers.

 

With a non-verbal child I would be wary of any teacher or early childhood worker.

 

 

 

ETA Yes OP, I would feel uncomfortable with the original scenario.

Edited by GlitteryElfFarts

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