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Lifesgood

UPDATE post #36: Is it reasonable to expect a 5 y/o FYOS to clean themselves after soiling accident?

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liveworkplay

I have a dd who has been going through similar issues for over a year. Her last years teacher (who has the mickname Princess by the office staff and other teachers as she won't even put a bandaid on a student) ignored the issue and dd was constantly coming home soiled evem after I spoke the the teacher about her issues more then once. This year I met with her teacher before school started to talk stratagies. I had tee'd up with my year 6 dd to help her if needed. The teacher didn't want to bother DD1 asked for my consent to deal with DD3 herself. I wasn't expecting her too but she told me it was all part of her job. So yes, after my experience with this years teacher I would expect the teacher to help.

 

As an aside, DD3 has a wobl watch set for toileting breaks (times in consultation with her teacher) The teacher also has an alarm set to prompt if needed. It has been going really well, DD3 even came home with a sticker yesterday telling me it was from the teacher because she did a poo in the toilet!

Edited by liveworkplay
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Paddlepop

This is a medical issue. The school needs to provide help. I recall past threads where people have said that a teacher aide was specially trained in helping a child clean up after toileting incidents. Is that an option that the school would consider?

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Oriental lily

Sorry a child coming home regularly smelling of wee is not the norm . None of my three girls did and I currently have a 5 year old in fyos.

 

Op you need to discuss this with the principal . There is certainly funding in public school for aids . I am surprised this was not talked about way last year during enrollement , all special needs children have the right to be integrated in to public schools if they can with the help of an aid .

 

Unless NSW schools are totally different to VIC schools ? My DD had an aid funded by the education system for anxiety issues and a speech delay . For two years .

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steppy

I wasn't answering you - hence the post I quoted in order to respond directly to it.

Edited by steppy

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literally nobody

would you consider sending him to a school close to where you work? it would make getting to him and changing him much easier.

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Oriental lily

Life'sgood they send a change of clothes because many 5 years old can change their clothes at that age . My first DD I sent to school couldn't but my current 5 year old certainly can .

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seayork2002

Sorry another thought - is there a shower anywhere at the school?

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Riotproof

 

 

Not every school has a school nurse. None at our primary school.

 

It's an option where there is one though.

 

I don't know. A 5 yo sitting in excrement for an hour waiting for parents to arrive sounds far from ideal to me.

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Oriental lily

Riotproof thats why a situation like that would be very very rare .

 

The OP's son has a medical condition . A child wetting their pants in the first semester of FYOS due to nerves or being to shy to go to the toilet is generally the only type of accidents ever to be faced . A child with faeceal incontienence should have a care plan written up and organized with the school leaders on what is to happen . The same sort of care plan that happens for asthma or a child with diabetes or allergies .

 

As has been mentioned a school ' readiness ' check list includes toileting, it's not just about academically ready .

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Lifesgood

DS has been 'toilet trained' since he was three. He has a medical issue.

 

I think changing schools is not a first course of action.

 

I have written to the principal just now.

 

I wasn't answering you - hence the post I quoted in order to respond directly to it.

Sorry, I am a bit close to the edge today. I'll remove my response. It was out of line. Edited by Lifesgood

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Lifesgood

That is more for pee accidents.

 

Re the admin/ first aid staff, I think they require training to help with these sort of clean-ups, something to do with bodily fluid - not a huge amount of training of course, but some, especially as the child is a student and older. I remember a teacher's Aide telling me that she had done the training and was the one responsible for toileting special needs children (Mainstream school with 2 ASD units and special ed class). Just offering this as a possible explanation for the lack of co-operation by the school.

 

Of course this does not help your child, poor love. Can you have a staff member take him to the toilet at the beginning of recess? Does the school have a loo in the first aid room that he can use for privacy?

 

Sorry, no solutions but hope you can find one

DD is at the same school (Year 5), she has cleaned him up once at OOSH when he had an accident. She would willingly clean him up if they asked her. She makes him go to the toilet at recess and lunch, but she can't go in with him (boys toilets) so he won't poo there as he has issues with sitting on public toilets. He pees happily in the trough.

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Riotproof

I'm not disagreeing with you, ol.

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Fifteenyears

Hi Lifesgood,

 

Your son has a bowel management issue unrelated to maturity that he is currently under the care of a doctor for? This should not be your problem alone. You know what your son needs, but the department of education is obliged to provide him with an education in a way that is as uninterrupted as possible for both him and his peers.

 

There is a process for structuring this type of problem solving, and it is called a health care plan.

 

http://www.schools.nsw.edu.au/studentsupport/studenthealth/individualstud/devimpindhcplan/

 

Once complex health needs have been documented this way, it sometimes can be extra evidence a school can use to apply for aide time. It would not be much (sigh, if any - it is harder to come by now than it used to be) but if they could add a couple of hours a week to the time existing aides are employed, there would be someone on hand to help when the need arises. Or someone with experience in this field might have other helpful ideas.

 

It had been a gazillion years and many restructures since my knowledge of this area or the department's support structure was up to date, so someone currently in the know might come in and say this is all wrong now, but back then there were people employed at regional education offices whose jobs were to help schools with this process.

 

In your place I think I would wait to see what the principal has to say, as they may have a satisfactory solution for you. If they are stumped too, my next step would be to call the regional office, ask for the disability program consultant (or whatever they are called these days) and just ask for a discussion about available support for keeping your son in school.

 

Not in a going-over-heads /dobbing in the school sort of way - (principals generally outrank the support teachers at area offices anyway!) just in a seeking out fairly specialised information sort of way.

Edited by ElevenYears
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soapy

Some schools won't let the teachers helped. It happened to a friend of mines child. They were able to instruct them but not touch them to help. So silly.

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LittleMissPink

I thought the rules were they had to be able to clean up after themselves before starting kindy/school?

 

Actually no.

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becstar101

The continence foundation can be a great resource for information and support. You can't be the first family in this situation - can you contact them for advice?

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LittleMissPink

My DD started school last year at 5.5 not toilet trained completely. She also has encopresis, and low tone, and she was assessed by the school as having physical developmental needs (toileting/hygiene) and a teachers aide was assigned to change her if she had an accident.

 

Its a hygiene/safety issue for the school. If the child has an accident in the classroom and it gets on the carpet, floor or chairs, then there is a cleaning protocol that has to be implemented. So, soiling is a hygiene issue.

 

Ask for a health care assessment to be done on your child. His ASD, along with the encopresis entitles him to having teacher aide time, and someone to clean him up.

 

As it was, my DD started school wearing pullups in case of poo accidents, but she would wee in the toilet fine. By the end of Term 1 she was wearing undies, and gradually had less poo accidents as the year progressed, until Term 4 she only had 1-2. This year in grade 1 she has had 2 accidents-but started at a new school.

Edited by LittleMissPink
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Froggilicious

Oh my goodness. I cannot believe some of the replies in here. And thank goodnessEleven Years for coming in and speaking sense. This boy has a medical problem. would you exclude a child from school for having a broken leg? No. Would the school have to implement stratigies to enable a child in plaster to continue to access education? Yes. same should apply here.

 

I agree that it would be too difficult for the teacher to assist as they do have to be around for the other students. However stratigies like the ones mentioned by a PP (who's DD has a fabulous proactive teacher) like an alam and reminders etc. what is DS's issue with public toilets? Would he consider using a staff toilet? Maybe there is a toilet in the school he could be given special permission to use that DD could go into with him.

 

Op talk to your principal. They have to be able to provide a workable solution which doesn't require DS to sit in faeces for an hour until you arrive.

Edited by Froggilicious
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Natttmumm

I haven't read all the posts but simple answer to me is no a 5 year old cant usualy do that.....they should have called you up straight away.

 

That being said a teacher shouldn't have to do that either - if this is an on going issue there needs to be a management plan. e.g spare clothes in the office and wipes and a call to mum straight away

 

Edited to say - I believe all schools should be able to handle this issue respectfully and without upsetting the child

Edited by Natttmumm

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YodaTheWrinkledOne

At my children's primary school, a note is sent home on the first day of kindy which address toileting expectation. For at least the 1st term, all new kinder children are t take a spare change of underwear/clothes + a plastic bag for any soiled clothes. Teachers will assist if your child has one toileting accident. But parents are also encouraged to ring principal or teachers if they anticipate toileting problems. If it happens more than once, the teacher/principal apparently ring the parent to discuss options. I don't know what options are discussed as this hasn't happened to us, but it must happen frequently enough that the school is proactive about it.

 

From a practical point of view, I can't imagine teachers can simply leave the classroom whenever a child has a toilet accident. A once off, maybe. But if it happened regularly, I think the parent needs to contact the school to discuss a contingency plan.

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steppy

 

Sorry, I am a bit close to the edge today. I'll remove my response. It was out of line.

 

It's okay - I figured. No offence taken.

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Mummy_Em

Telling someone to homeschool because their child has a medical need is exactly the same as telling parents of a child in a wheelchair that they have to go to a specialist school because the public school isn't wheelchair accessible. The law says that all children are entitled to be educated in mainstream public education. It's not acceptable on any level to exclude people from their community based on medical needs or disabilities.

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Freddie'sMum

I hear you OP and I have a child who is nearly 11 still having ongoing 'poo' issues.

 

I think if you could sit down and talk to the teacher and principal - as the other PPs have mentioned above - get a care plan for your DS - get everybody on the same page and take it from there.

 

*hugs*

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IkeaAddict

Teachers at DS school aren't "allowed" to help children with accidents. This was stressed to us at orientation and through all the enrolment stuff etc. If a child is unable to clean up a toileting mess then perhaps a mainstream school isn't the right environment for them. That aside, DS's class doesn't have a teachers aide. It shouldn't be expected that the other kids be left unattended (actually, it isn't allowed) while the teacher organises the cleaning up of a child after a toileting accident.

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Nobodyelse

It doesn't sound right that he isn't entitled to an aid. Or that you have to organise it yourself. I'd be following up on that. He clearly needs extra assistance.

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