.

Can you afford a nanny rather than daycare? Some very experienced nannies take on 'challenging' children preferentially because they like the challenge. It would give you a break and bring in someone else who can work with him one on one with his exercises etc.

I am presuming that his hearing has been checked many times?

DS1 was a late talker (ie less then 10 words at 24m but by 36m was "Mummy I think perhaps a train may be coming soon").

DS2 was similar, but when he started talking more at 2.5yrs it was incomprehensible... I realised it sounded like he was hearing underwater and sure enough hearing tests showed fluid filled ears. Grommets in at just before 3yrs but it took nearly until 4yrs before his hearing tests came back within the 'normal' range. As his hearing has been variable over that time he has had moments of 'progress'. His speechie says he is all over the place. Doing some things you would not expect until 6yrs, but failing to do others which you would expect at 2yrs. He also had a habit of when he didn't know what words to use he would insert his own 'jargon' which meant that he basically became incomprehensible (as you had to only listen to the REAL words which were also not clearly pronounced).

His default action is to have a meltdown rather then use his words (which makes life hard).

We are at 4.5yrs, one year before starting school and about to embark on a full re-assessment to try and identify all the 'gaps' in his speech/language/receptive language.

So yes it can be hard.

You might have to find a more specialized speech therapist. The tantrums could be related to frustration as a result of his lack of speech. Has the speech therapist suggested using sign language or the Pecs system?

Have you had an assessment by a speech pathologist? My DD had similar issues, and has a severe expressive and receptive language disorder. Therapy has improved her speech, and her levels of frustration, no end. That assessment guided her Program, and although it involved constant work, improvement was noticeable over several months.

If you want the name of our Speechie, she's now in Sydney, I'm happy to PM you.

My first daughter was like that before. Didn't really speak until 4.5 years despite she started speech therapy since she was 1. We also worried that she had Austism but she didn't . She was diagnosed to have language delay. Fast forward now, She is 6.5 years and doing great despite still lacking behind her peers. She still has weekly speech therapy.

One thing to consider is Sleep Apnea. She didn't have any symptoms of sleep apnea but on one occasion, the dentist was concern about her teeth and mentioned she might be breathing on her mouth. Went to do sleep study and Bang! She had moderate sleep apnea that makes her a fussy eater and fussy sleeper. Once the tonsil and adenoids out, she is a happy child, eating and sleep well and the most important thing is concentrate better.

Good luck OP

Felicia

Hi

I just wanted to say hang in there. My DS is three and a 1/4 , and it's only been in the last month that his speech has come on, in fact, even the last two weeks. He also has been to a paediatrician, speechie etc and they've all said he's fine. We have a speechie in the family who insists he's fine too, and that kids talk when they want to talk!

I've had a breakthrough this week with him finally saying "I'd like a ..." or "I want a ..." - I must have been through it 1000 times with him about I'd like a... and finally, it's sunk it!! So, don't give up!!

I can really relate to how frustrated you get - it drives me mad sometimes!

Good luck!

Tantrums = frustration at lack of ability to communicate. DS2 has tantrums because when he tries to communicate other's don't understand (both from an inability to express what he wanted and from trying to express what he wanted and still not being understood), so has actually gone backwards as his efforts to communicate have not been rewarded IYKWIM?

DP.

I agree with PP - get him assessed by a Speech Therapist. His problems may only be speech related so that would explain the absence of an Autism or other diagnosis.

Two of my three children needed speech - my son was probably my worst - his speech was very unclear although as his parents, my DH and I could understand him.

Our speech therapist told us she can assess and work with children from the age of 2 years of age - we had our third child assessed around 2.5 just to reassure us she was developing "normally" (although she was assessed as normal I still think she lacks a bit of clarity at times). She also said speech problems can run in families hence why we had our second and third child assessed.

Get a proper speech assessment done on him - you will be amazed than when shown the types of exercises you do with your child how quickly their speech comes along and for us, how less frustrated our kids got when they were able to get across more difficult requests.

Good luck.

Again, assuming his hearing has been recently checked and is fine....
How experienced is your speechie? It seems like quite a severe language dealy....is his receptive language also impaired (his comprehension?), as this would make it difficult to manage his behaviour if he is not fully comprehending the messages you are trying to get across. And how is his auditory processing? Has your speechie given you some techniques to communicate clearly with him? i.e. give clear commands and if he doesn't appear to listen to you the first time, wait at least 5 seconds and repeat the command in the exact same words (rather than rephrasing) as it limits the demands you are placing on his language processing...etc.
I would suggest perhaps looking for a speechie very experienced with kids with language delay.

It does sound like ASD to me, mainly because your DS sounds a lot like mine did at the same age and my DS has ASD. However that has been ruled out by two very reputable sources (and my DS is a Lizard boy).

Did the paed or Lizard give you any indication on what it could be or provide any advice on strategies to deal with his behaviour and speech delay?

What worked with my DS was speech therapy and ABA, which is a popular form of therapy for children on the spectrum. We had loads of non compliance issues and frequent meltdowns, after 6 months of very intensive therapy (25 hours a week) the difficult behaviour has decreased substantially due to his increased language skills and compliance training.

So to answer your questions, yes my DS spoke late. He was diagnosed with severe language delay at 3 and 2 months. The speechie treated the symptoms rather than the label (ie ASD), and we started off with play-based therapy to build up motivation to communicate, using extremely simple language. If he spoke one word, we'd extend it by using that word combined with another eg "car", we'd say back "push car" and do the action with a toy car so he'd understand. Over time this led to short phrases and requests. Now his speech has normalised we are focusing on social communication, ie using his language skills to connect and interact with others, especially peers.

It's good you've commenced speech therapy although how do you feel about the therapist? We tried 4 before we found our current one, the others just didn't have the right rapport with DS and as a result we saw little progress.

Good luck OP, and good on you for being proactive about things. It can be frustrating trying to work out what's going on.

My son also had speech delay (first words at about 15-17 months, single words at 2 y.o, 2 word sentences at 3 y.o), and would actually have tantrums and significant difficulties controlling his emotions. a lot of this was because he felt he wasn't understood and was really frustrated by this. The first speech therapist we went to didn't go well, he didn't bond with her and refused to interact with her during the lessons and didn't improve much. Once we changed to another speech therapist recommended to us by his childcare's director, his speech improved heaps. The other thing I found reduced his tantrums and acting out (eg, 'not listening', being really distracted and hyperactive, not being able to sit down to listen or concentrate on books etc) was banning TV/Ipod/Computers eg Youtube etc and increasing his outdoor time- whenever the weather was sunny and warm, I put on the sprinkler and let him play with buckets of water. One internet program that was an exception was ABC reading eggs (readingeggs.com.au)- for some reason, although this is designed to help kids read, it's really improved his speech a lot! The days he was outside for at least a couple of hours, his eating improved heaps (hehe, my son literally has a 'vegie allergy'- he would actually run away from broccoli!!) and he would be more settled. Ahh, I look forward to my kid-free days too, totally empathise with you there! Best of luck!

Sound like a significant speech language disorder. Definitely see a speechy.

Hi junipertree:

I remember your situation very clearly. I am really sorry that your son is continuing to struggle with his speech & behavior. I can appreciate how HARD that must be for both him and you. I can just hear the anguish in your post.

Please forgive me for the 20 questions, but I'm asking so that maybe I/others reading this can give you better advice.

I remember that you were able to get a limited amount of time with a very senior speech therapist at the Lizard Centre (who works almost exclusively with kids on the spectrum). Did she have sufficient time to do a full assessment of your son's speech? And did you have time to brief her on the other concerns you have (beyond lack of speech - the sensory issues, the tantruming, etc.), or was the focus solely on his speech? What were her explicit recommendations to you based on the time she spent with your son?

I can't recall which paed you saw, but did he/she do a formal assessment for ASD (this would have included at the very least a lengthy parent interview and a play based observation session of your son)? Was it a developmental paed or a generalist paed?

I am asking all of these questions not because I am trying to grill you but because sometimes parents think things like ASD and other developmental issues have been ruled out completely when they actually haven't been fully probed. If you did have a full assessment, then please just disregard the line of questioning above! And if you didn't have a proper assessment, I would strongly encourage you to seek the counsel of a good developmental paed (specialist paed) as soon as possible. Since your appointments were several months ago, and your son apparently has had a regression in skills, it is important that professionals be aware of that.

The "diagnosis" that your son is "willful and spirited" (and that is the root cause of his behavior) just seems -- well, lacking, frankly. From a good paed, I would have expected some concrete suggestions on how you might address the behavioral issues and other potential issues to explore, even if the paed didn't believe ASD was in the cards. Likewise, I would have expected L to have given you some recommendations with speech strategies, even if she didn't have capacity to take your son on as a client.

bubba raises a great point about the "fit" of your current speech therapist with your son. It may well be that he needs a different therapist or much more therapy...or both. And like bubba, we saw enormous behavioral changes with our daughter once her speech started to kick in and so did the effects of ABA (behavioral therapy).

I wish I had a magic answer for you. I think if I were in your shoes, and depending on the answers to the questions above, I would simulataneously be:

* Booking a great developmental paed (again, assuming the paed you saw was not a developmental paed and/or didn't do a formal assessment)

* Looking for a speech therapist who tends to work with kids with ASD (not because your son necessarily *has* ASD but because these types of speech therapists will be totally familiar with things like severe receptive & expressive language delays, extreme meltdowns, sensory issues, running off, etc.)

* Trying to get more support in the home -- be it in the form of more help from my partner (edited to add that UKBlondie is spot on!), family members, or at home therapists to help lighten the load.

Good luck. I really hope that you start to see the sun from behind the clouds soon. Three was a very hard age for us on this end, too. But with a lot of early intervention, we did see great progress. I hope things improve soon.

Badmammajamma - as always - gives good advice.

OP - One thing jumped out at me from your post:



Speech delay (and possible other learning issues) are not just 'child raising' issues. They can have a huge and lasting impact on the person;s ability to communicate and function throughout their whole life. Do not let your DH get off the hook by being the one who 'works' - apart from anything else, with any kind of behavioural or speech issue, it takes consistency from everyone involved to help aid improvement. that means you, DH, grandparents, teachers, carers, even parents of friends.

I hope you get some answers soon.

hi OP
sounds very simular to my 7yr old DS, he was tested doesnt have ASD but has quite a few behaviours of it at 3 he wasnt talking wasnt even babbling, by 4 he was talking slightly it was only till he was 5 he got to school and his language went up heaps..he has had speech therapy since before he was 2 and I really think i took him to the wrong speechie we lived country and he was diganoised with mild speech delay, then we moved to melbourne from WA (when he was 4) and he gets diganoised with severe expressive delay with moderate delay in other speech area (ive gone blank!!) I hope you get some answers OP

The others especially blondieUK and baddmammajamma have given good advice. But I will also repeat what another PP said about the fit with the speech therapist and the program they use.
My eldest has around about a 12 month speech delay (not sure what level that is but he is roughly at the level of an almost 2yr old and is just over 3. He has 2 words at 2 bye and dad) and it has only been since changing how our speech pathologist changed the way she was operating with Tristan that things have improved significantly. The main thing was that he needed very regular contact and sessions to encourage and further his language development as otherwise he just refused to interact with the therapist. We also do play based therapy (about to attempt something a bit different but it has been play for now) and it has been tailored to his interests and his personality. Also going once a week for the last 6 months has helped enormously, now instead of being the silent child that would just sit with his car in the corner ignoring the therapist he actually talks to her and looks forward to the sessions and we are finally convincing him that talking is a good way to communicate and more effiecent then trying to figure things out for yourself

Sounds like a few issues are going on. What popped out to me is tiredness as well as maybe hearing issue. It's a process of elimination. It's good you can rule out what has been tested. Our DD has always spoken well but if she's tired she falls to bits. Tantrums screaming kicking falling over etc If you saw her on a bad day you would be sure something is wrong. If she sleeps well she's an angel. we have had her tested only to find out its spirited personality etc

deleted

As I said my DS2 (who has had variable hearing) is/was doing "jargon jargon jargon I want this one" type stuff too. It was actually his speechie who picked up on him while doing a Language test. When she actually wrote down what he was saying (using 'jargon' for unintelligible words rather then babble) you could actually see he was talking about what was in the picture around the 'jargon' the 'jargon' was when he knew he wanted to express something but did not have the words.

Also when tired or excited or upset totally incomprehensible too.

Juniper:

Thanks for taking the time to clarify. It sounds like you did have some thorough assessing done. I hope my questions didn't offend you -- it's just hard to tell on email what the full scoop is. I think I tend to go into "overly cautious mode" because it's pretty common for parents to think they are in the clear simply because a GP or generalist paed has ruled out something. Sounds like you have some pretty hefty professionals on your side (well, I certainly can vouche for Liz, who is top notch!)

From your earlier descriptions, I was assuming that your son had receptive language issues and wasn't speaking in phrases at all, but from your latest post...no wonder you are confused by your son's ability to pepper his babble with meaningful, well articulated phrases!

I wish I had something more valuable to add other than my on line support. I hope you are able to get to the bottom of the issues and that your son's speech and behavior start to improve soon.

I know that cost is NOT insignificant, but if you have a chance to work with the team at Lizard, that would be fantastic. All of their speech therapists are also ABA trained (behavioral therapists), which can be helpful if you have a child with speech issues who also has some behavioral challenges!

I would also look into if your council or similar runs a Hanen 'It takes two to talk' programme as it could be useful. The Speech pathologist may know if this is available in your area.

http://www.hanen.org/hanen-programs/progra...nt-program.aspx

Good luck. It must be very frustrating for you all.

Hi OP, just wondering how your DS is progressing now? My DS is nearly 3 and there are many similarities, so just curious!!Hope things have improved