I was having lunch with a friend over the weekend. Sitting across from us was a boy (aged about 4?) with his Mum and I commented to my friend, 'he's such a cute little man.'

This lead onto a convo about the use of 'little man' and how that is used so often; yet 'little woman' is rarely, if ever, used. My thoughts went on the patriarchal tangent, in that there is more impotance placed on becoming a man than a woman and although it really is perhaps just a figure of speech now, it still rests on patriarchal foundations.

Why do you think 'little man' is an ok term to use when referring to boys yet 'little woman' is not, or is not as common?

Little lady is more common.


Little woman sounds like the book.

this is what I thought straight away

"little man" flows off the tongue easier then "little woman"

Most of my friends who used "little man" most persistantly were black and/or referring to black children, and a lot of men did not want to refer to their sons as boy even when they were very tiny due to negative connotations.

Girl was not seen as half-pejorative or loaded the same way.

I really don't like it. To me it seems to take something away from just being a little boy.
Of course I am aware it's only a saying and that those who do use it probably don't mean anything by it, but to me it sounds even a bit bogan. Don't know why.

My DH calls DD (3 years) 'baby girl' and DS (1 year) 'little man'

He has some gender stereotyping issues.

I have two sons and it makes me cringe whenever friends call them 'little man'.

It really rubs me the wrong way!! Why is everyone in such a rush for my sweet little boys to be men? Plenty of time for that.

I'm expecting a girl now and I seriously doubt she'll have the same pressure put on her.

My boys are boys - and may they be boys a long time!

Little man rolls off the tongue far more easily than 'little woman' does.

We use little lady or little miss ... never little woman.

I have a sweet 'little man' - he is a bit of an old soul at times and the nickname suits him well.

Bogan? Interesting! I would never have thought that. I wonder why that is.

I understand the feeling that it takes something away from being a little boy. I feel that way too but as another PP said, 'little man' just seems to roll off the tongue easily for me. I don't really know where it came from - my parents perhaps?? If it did, that could explain the 'bogan' link - my family do have a tendancy to be a little boag.

Yeah, interesting topic.

I feel it's along patriarchal lines, and due to more importance being placed on becoming a man than a woman.

As an aside- I have been retraining myself in the way I address groups of women as a way of taking back the concept of "womanhood". I became increasingly aware through my studies (and a FB group for my all-female student colleagues) that everyone always addresses groups of women with things like- "Hi girls" "Hi ladies" "Hey guys", but never as women. Well, we aren't girls, we're certainly not guys, and ladies has particular anti-feminist connotations that I've only begun to be aware of.

So long story short I'm now addressing groups of women as exactly that, "women". I now fail to understand why no one actually refers to women as women.

There was a thread on this a year ago and it completely opened my eyes to how pervasive gender stereotyping really is.

Before that thread (thanks silentmoose) I would unthinkingly, call someone's boy a little man but not in a million years would I patronise a girl by calling her a little woman.

The connotations are entirely different because little woman is traditionally an insult. And it's far more acceptable to baby young girls by calling them little princess or baby girl than it is to baby boys. Boys are men in waiting. Girls are little dolls.

Now I cringe when I hear little man.

Funny you say that, our discussion lead to that same topic. Woman or women can feel so unnatural to say and I committed myself to a similar goal - to be able to use woman/women rather than ladies/girls which seems easier to say. We're clearly thinking along the same lines - you should have been there to join our discussion on the weekend!

Yes exactly - it's ok to become a man but not to become a woman. It's certainly something I want to stop saying. I don't like it but find the words just rolling off my tongue. It's a habit I absolutely want to break.

I don't really want to be called that. Its not as grating as "females" (bad experiences with that, personally, it actually gives me a bit of a chill) but I'm not a fan.

And I like "little man," I would use that if I had one. (Hope I do, eventually).

I think it's a very clear reflection of what we value in girls/women versus boys/men.

For adult women, the valued characteristics are youth, inexperience and good looks - sometimes characterised as "innocence". "Girl", and "Lady" fit in well with different aspects of that, but "Woman" doesn't, so much. We're very happy to call adults "girls" and "ladies" but as PPs have noted, we're more reluctant to call ourselves "women" so obviously we don't use that term for our girl children either. Also, the adjective "womanly" brings up connotations of sexual maturity and motherhood, which most people are reluctant to associate with our children.

For men, on the other hand, we value strength, expertise and risk-taking. "Man" fits the first two of these, "Boy" the second. Men are occasionally willing to be regarded as "boys" (eg, "going out with the boys") but not when they're trying to be taken seriously. "Gentleman" - the male equivalent of "lady" is very rarely applied to men by themselves, because it has connotations of softness and wussiness along with politeness and good breeding - it's recognised as a compliment, in a way, but it's complimenting the wrong thing, so people aren't keen on it. Hence you can hear "little man" or "little boy" for boys, but rerely "little gentleman" except in really specific circumstances.

Society is fascinating .

I don't really see this changing in the near future either - a lot of this is quite hard-wired into us, the desire to have the female/nurturer and male/acheiver as our archetypes.

"Little Woman" is usually said by a man referring to his wife. I agree with PP's, for a little girl I would be more likely to say "little lady"

I call DS little man and i call DD little lady.

Starseed, it's so true. I'm going to start saying "Hello women" from now on.

I loathe the "hello ladies" greeting, likewise women who talk about their "girlfriends". You'd never hear a man talk of their "boyfriends".
Why can't we just say "my friend Simone" or 'My friends" ?.

Yes 'little man' sounds cute at first, but the more you think about it, the more onus it puts on machismo, whereas girls get burdened with the obverse of the hyper feminine 'lady' and 'princess' or 'doll' or 'sweetie' even.

I would say little man.. it doesn't really mean any great thing. Little woman is not used so much because men say it about the little woman in the kitchen or the little missus. So we tend not to use that I think.

I don't think there is any sinister motives in saying little man.

I call my girls little ladies. Not always, but then I don't refer to friends' male children as little men all the time either. However, I have been known to use both. I remember when I was a child, being called a little lady by mum as well.

I don't see the big deal.

Also, for those who say that women should always be referred to as women (never girls, ladies, etc), does your DH or DP never "go out with the boys"?

I think context is so important when talking about these things. I have no problem saying DH is "going out with the boys" or saying I'm "catching up with the girls" as to me it indicates that we are getting together for activities which are of a less serious nature, maybe even having some fun in the spirit of childhood, and that is why boys and girls are used. "Going out with the men" seems so serious! And "having lunch with the women" makes it sound like I am going to visit my grandmother's friends!

I'm as feminist as they come and I have no issues with "little man" - it's what I call my DS . I do have issues with dressing him like an 18 year old, I keep him in cute, neutral, "kid" clothes. Calling him "little man" does not mean that I want him to grow up quickly. I also call him "bug" as a nickname (long story). Does that mean I have insect issues?
If I had a girl, I don't know what nickname we would bestow upon her; i would DEFINITELY not be calling her princess or fairy etc. Little lady is fine, in fact, I would like her to grow up with some manners and behave like a lady. But not a princess Ha ha ha!

Same. I also have been called a feminist by family members hehe. I have also used little man once or twice lately but normally we use his funny nickname. DD is little miss but we say it in Japanese from when we were in Japan it became her nickname.

And sometimes we actually use their names!

Sweetie, sugar, boo, darling, bubeleh... to me those are all unisex. I would call a boy or girl either. And I'd use all of them. There's no femininity to those to me, just affection. I also call my husband most of those (not bubeleh, unless I'm joking around).

The only time I hear the reference of "little woman" is from an older man(say 50's plus) in reference to his dear wife.

I guess, as the other PP's have said, "Little lady" is more appropriate-sounding then "little woman"

Good bloody grief.

You know it's got nothing to do with that, right? it's just a term of endearment - like sweetie, or mate, or monkey-bum or whatever other nicknames you've got going for your kids.

You’re way overthinking it.

Now that I think of it most of the time I say little rabbit or little possum.. hope I am not offending the animal population lol

I use little man (wee man), because Little boy to me is this


For girls I use little lady or the wee madam.

eta... The 'wee' is for the Scotty dad. Scotty nan calls the little lady 'wee hen'.

wow. people really over think things. seriously.

the reason why people get so ""affected"by "ingrained stereotypes" is because they spend too much time sitting around thinking about things to be affected and insulted by. honestly. it's ridiculous.

I think it's just a way of describing the little adult that is in all of them. For DD it meant calling her 'Little Miss' at those times, and for DS it's 'Little Man'. I still call them both baby boy/baby girl at times when that's what I'm feeling about them too.

Does anyone actually ever address groups of men as "Hello men"??

You're right. There are no ingrained gender stereotypes at all. In fact, there's no sexism. Boys prefer blue and girls prefer pink because of biology.

Either that, or you're under thinking it.

We sometimes refer to our unborn DS as 'little man' (along 'little boy' and 'little monkey' and a million other things). Didn't realise I was already offending people.


That's exactly what I was thinking.

Sometimes we need to question ingrained societal habits, otherwise how would we change?
I never questioned calling grass trees 'black boys' or wood burls 'nigger heads' until I was old enough to realise what I was saying.

Those might be very obvious examples but it doesn't hurt to question the norm every now and again and ask why little man rolls off the tongue more easily than little woman.

I call DD little woman and DS little man.

Sounds like something out of WWII, doesn't it?

I can't stand the term "little man".

Another one who hates the term "little man". No, he is a child, a boy, not a small adult.

because the girl is generally called "the princess"

hehe Yes it does!

When it comes to using women/woman rather than girls or ladies, I don't think I could ever use it in quite that way ... 'hello women' I do think I need to change some of my internal thoughts though and be more proud of woman.

I caught myself saying "good man" the other day to my nephew, at the same time as I was saying "good girl" to my daughter. I cringed, then sighed, had a little think about the pervasive effects of unconscious sexism even upon those, such as myself, who should be a bit more clued in about it all *sigh*

And I resolved to make sure that in future I say good boy. He's two, he's not black, so there are none of the connotations that la di dah mentioned and there is plenty of time in the future for him to be a man.

I think it's a bit tongue-in-cheek. I call DS little man sometimes, because there's something cute about it. Obviously he's not a little man, but a boy. I usually call him 'Dumpling', though, and he's not a dumpling either. Not sure what I'll call daughter-to-be when she arrives.

Don't ever hear this, and can't imagine using "hello women"

If I walk into a room, I don't say "hello girls" or "Hello ladies". I generally say "Hello everyone"

My boss walks into a meeting, and uses any number of varieties.
Hello People/ Everyone/ Lady and Gents/ boys and girl (yes, I'm the only woman in the group).

I'm another that thinks people are over-thinking a very common nickname for little boys that is in no way insulting or degrading. Many completely benign nicknames could be construed to be 'wrong' after a good over-analysis session.

We don't actually use 'little man', not because we don't like it, just because DS got the sometimes-used nickname of 'Little Mister' very early on and it stuck (mostly we use his name). Maybe it's just as 'wrong/bad/insulting/sexist' to some people, but people don't seem to have a problem with 'Little Miss', or the common (but in my opinion completely cringeworthy 'Little Princess').


Not quite, but I do greet my staff in the morning with 'Hello chaps!'. They also greet each other with 'Hello chaps' or 'Morning chaps'.

When I was in the military they would sometimes use "all right, females" or "males, this is how its gonna be" or whatever (as recruits we were always males or females and never men or women, which was a privilege of graduation).

If they didn't know who you were they'd just yell out "hey, female!" or "hey male!" to a recruit to grab them, and you really didn't want them to know you personally.

Much like the similarily memorable phrase of "male, why the [expletive deleted] are you looking at my females?!" it really has no place in the civilian sector, IMO.

.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

I realised that I say "Hey guys" to everyone, male or female.