Me again...another boring sleeping question..

For the past 2 days i have been trying to rock my babies until they get tired and then putting them down to bed awake.

before this they were being rocked to sleep. I had to change this as they keep on waking through the night and I realised this could be because they dont know how to put themselves back to sleep.

But im finding this method so hard as there is usually 15 minutes of crying (each!) and then resettling for another 10-20 minutes after they sleep for one sleep cycle.

And then i am having to go into their room cos they keep waking - back and forth, back and forth.

What am i doing wrong?? Night sleeping hasnt improved yet.

And just then they woke at the same time and couldnt be settled - crying and screaming cos I wouldnt pick them up!! its so hard to settle them both at the same time - impossible i think! Eventually i did pick them up but then they wouldnt sleep again cos they were too awake from crying.

PLEASE - does someone have a method I can use for twins? I cant keep doing this back and forth thing all day every day!!!

In BabyLove it says its ok to leave them cry to sleep for up to 20 minutes - i havent tried this cos I dont want TWO screaming babies at the same time - it gets to the point where they are both unconsolable and I am tearing my hair out/crying/screaming myself!

thanks, Ali

Sorry it's so hard for you atm.

Could you try separating them? Just to see if that makes any difference?

I'd also recommend a sleep centre. Somewhere like Tresillian (sp???) or Riverton. I went there when my girls were about 6 months old & found it to be very helpful.

It's so nice having support! The ladies there & VERY supportive & you will meet other mum's with the same sorts of problems & age babies. I found this alone wonderful.

Lots of twin mum need a bit more help with sleep issues, so don't feel alone.

Belinda

Thanks Michelle for replying..

They only want one feed during the night. But the rest of the time they are tossing and turning and rubbing their faces...

They resettle quite easily through the night by me patting them.

During the day they sleep varied amounts - from 40 minutes to 2 hours...which i think is normal

Its just that the whole time they are sleeping I am having to resettle..

When my girls were quite young I saw a great video about tired signs - jerky movements, staring and grizzling all tend to come before yawning and rubbing eyes. The theory is that if you can recognise the first tired signs and put your babies to bed awake at that stage, they'll go to sleep better, before they're over-tired. Maybe you're already doing this, but if not, perhaps the rocking is getting them past their tired state and into "overtired"? Or maybe it's just that they're protesting at the change in routine from rocking to sleep to being put to bed awake. If that's the case, and you want to continue with the new method (and I think it's great for your babies to get used to going to sleep without props like you rocking them - means they can do it again if they wake in the night - hopefully!!), then it may just take a few days of patience. If you decide that you'll leave them for, say, 10 minutes before going in again, then I can personally recommend getting out of earshot and not listening - it will undo all your good intentions.

Good luck!

Maree

Eleanor 1/8/03
Harriet 1/8/03

This message was edited by nakigirl on Wednesday, 9 November 2005 @ 5:20 PM

Ah the memories...you are not alone Ali (and you are not doing anything wrong either!) Don't forget, they are still very young, and that's not even taking into account their corrected age.

We rocked ours to sleep for a long time too. OK when you have both parents at home and can take one each - not so good when you are home alone (which for most of us is most of the time I guess).

When you stop the rocking, it does take them a while to work it out, but they will get it eventually. You might find yourself running backwards and forwards for a while resettling and then one day they'll surprise you and you won't have to. When we finally decided to let them cry, I would put the kitchen timer on and then go outside where I couldn't here them so that I couldn't give in.

I agree with Belinda, it might worth trying to separate them for a while - just until they work it out. We had one in their bedroom and one in a portacot in the dining room for a couple of weeks for just that reason.

Like Maree, I also saw a video showing tired signs when they were about the age your boys are and it helped a lot. I was missing the very early signs - the blank stare etc - and putting them to bed too late.

One tip I got from Ngala (sleep clinic) was keeping a diary for each of them. It was a just a line divided into 15 min blocks of the day - straight for sleeping, wavy for awake and happy, zig zags for crying, huge zig zags for screaming their heads off and a cross for a feed. I kept it for a few weeks. Because it was a "visual" diary, it was easy to see at a glance any patterns forming - and its also easy to see any small gains you are making which keeps you motivated to keep going.

Best of luck with it, let us know how you are going.

Nicolie
DDs Paige & Hannah (23/09/03)

Paige & Hannah

OK, i think I like the idea of separating them for a while if they continue to scream like this...sounds like they are upsetting each other.

I dont have a portacot so im not sure where to put the other one...will see.

I will try and get into residential at tresillian, i called the other day and they said there is an 8 week wait - so i better get booked in now!

I do watch very closely for tired signs - seems like all i do all day!

Maree and Nicolie:if I let them cry - how should i do it? Should i rock them until theyre tired, pat until they are almost asleep and then leave? Or do i just put them down and let them cry for 10 minutes first and then settle?

thanks so much for the words of encouragement!

Hi Alibub

I feel your tiredness!! Are you using dummies or maybe a musicbox? I find that my guys are getting to know the cues for sleep now- wrapping (now grobag), dummy and musicbox on. I've got the Fisher Price Birdie Soother Musicbox which also puts a little lightshow on the ceiling. The Fisher Price Aquarium is also good. They still have a little whinge when they go down, but I just put the dummy back in/start up the musicbox a couple of times if need be, and off they go (most of the time LOL). I guess that these things can be used to replace the rocking? Mind you- every now and then they are very sad/overtired and I do the rocking thing until they relax, then my above routine.

When they are both sad I do separate too- it is only during the day though. Hayden is still happiest in his cot, and I pop Jackson in the loungeroom in his rocker for a nap.

Not sure if this helps you, just some ideas. Hope I have not confused the issue! I do agree though, that it does take at least a few days for bubs this age to get used to any change in routine- so maybe just stick with what you are doing for a little longer and see how you go??

Good luck Ali
:-) Lindy

Hi again

It wasn't until after I posted this afternoon that it occured to me I never really let them cry until they were more than 6 months old, so I don't know how much help I am really - sorry!

Before that, I would mostly rock them until they were starting to drift off, put them down and pat them a little until they were settled - I had the cots close together so I could pat both at the same time. When I was on my own, I would do them one at a time, or if they were both unhappy, I would hold one and rock the other in a rocker with my foot or in a basinette on wheel. They had dummies too which helped. It wasn't ideal, and probably not what you are supposed to do but I am here and not too insane and I have 2 x 2 year olds who sleep 12-13 hours every night, so something worked!

When we went to Ngala (they were ~ 3 months old), they rocked the cot continuously until they stopped crying. Personally I didn't see much of a difference between this and rocking them in your arms (except that it was easier on your back!) and I found they went to sleep quicker my way. The best part about the whole Ngala experience was the diary (that was a big help), learning about tired signs and actually getting some sleep myself - the nurses told me to go and have nap and let them sort the kids out (I must have looked like I needed it LOL).

When we did finally bite the bullet a few months later, we would go through the normal bed time routine including a little cuddle, put them to bed, say good night and leave the room (different rooms at this point, we moved them back together once they had both worked out how to get themselves to sleep). We would leave them to cry for about 10 mins, and then would go in, give them a little pat and a shoosh and leave for another 10 mins. If they didn't settle after that, one of us would sit in the room (not touching them) until they settled. Same for day time naps. The best part was, that once they worked out how to go to sleep themselves in the first place, we didn't often need to resettle them.

I'm rambling again, sorry! Maybe I am insane after all.

Nicolie
DDs Paige & Hannah (23/09/03)



Paige & Hannah

Last night I tried settling them for about 10 minutes and then leaving for 10 minutes - IT WORKED after 20 minutes!!! But still woke through the night - not crying but tossing until I turned them to their sides/stomach...kept having to do this all night, felt like I was making a roast or something..

I spoke to my Early childhood centre nurse today and she suggested leaving for 2-3 minutes and resettling - so i will give that a go..maybe 10 minutes is a bit long for this age.

Apparently i have to call Family Care to get a visit/consultation from them first before I can get referred to Tresillian.

But i hope to see results soon with this new method - please please please!!!

fingers crossed...


thanks ladies - you are truly truly wonderful

So glad that last night was a slightly better one for you. I would take with a grain of salt the ECHN advice to leave your babies for 2 or 3 minutes only. Every baby is different and I learned with my girls that they needed longer than that to "self-settle". Sometimes I think the only person who feels better when you keep going in and settling is the mother - because you feel better about the baby/babies not crying for the time you're in there. But if they're just starting to settle themselves (and I believe some babies do that by grizzling/crying for a start) and then you come in, "settle" them and take them back to the beginning of the cycle, who feels better? You or them? You'll learn what is a "settling" cry or grizzle and what is more serious and needs your immediate attention.

The other thing is, unless your ECHN has twins or more, she just doesn't know what the reality is of having two crying, overtired babies. You'll work out what is best for your family - and it may be leaving them for more than 2 or 3 minutes. We did at the age your two are and they're great sleepers and happy little girls without any attachment problems (or whatever else you'll be told 10 minutes of crying may cause).

Remember that you'll remember the crying, but your babies won't.

Take care

Maree

Eleanor 1/8/03
Harriet 1/8/03

I just read on the internet that letting younger babies(about 3-6months) cry wont damage them psychologically. It is actually easier to start younger rather than older. As long as you keep going in at intervals to reassure them that you are there.

So i think i feel better about all this already!

Just did this again for their lunch time sleep and it was ok - one of them only cried for a couple of minutes!

thanks thanks thanks again!!!

Yay Ali! Sounds like its working, keep at it

Nicolie
DDs Paige & Hannah (23/09/03)

ahhhgh!!!

Its just not working for Connor!

Has anyone else out there got one difficult baby and one good baby??

hi there alibub

yes i have one very placid baby and one very fiesty but then the next day they change roles!!!

mind you i think it's great that they are so different.

tanya