Sooo, the best laid plans and all that. #3 has decided to turn breech. There is still some time to shift him back around, so I'm not overly concerned at the moment.

But anyway, I'm wondering what you would do in this situation? Would you breech birth at home, or with IM in hospital?

We've already made our decision on what we'll do, if he doesn't turn, so this is more purely for curiousity's sake.

I don't know. i find it a bit scary tbh. I trust my midwife so if she felt confident then i would be more likely too.
I have seen the videos and read the reports from the UK where breech is another type of normal birth so I know it can be done.
but I think we would most likely decide on the day, this is my first so i guess the whole idea is a bit scary for me anyway.

I would more happily breech birth at home with an independant midwife who just treated breech as a variation of normal, than I would breech birth in a hopsital with a clinical OB who probably is rather inexperienced in such matters now, I would imagine.

How many natural breech births does the average OB attend these days?

Depends on the breech experience of my care provider.

(have opened this from "recent topics" and realised it's in home birthing, pls don't shoot me)

No. I wouldn't. Not for a breech baby.

Also would depend on the type of breech, there is a big difference between bum first and feet first breech.

If he didn't turn I would not birth at home.

If baby was engaged bum down... i would, especially since i have had previous births without any problems.

My midwife i have previously had been to alot of home breech births and i trust her experiance more than i would at a hospital where they rarely see breech natural birth.

Hospital for sure - in cases such as this where there's a chance of having to have an emergency c-section I wouldn't see that as sufficiently normal or risk-free to be safe to do at home regardless of how experienced the midwife or practictitioner (the necessary equipment just isn't available and the time lapse of a required trip to hospital may be the difference between life and death).

Depends on my care provider, but skill with breech was one of my selection criteria so with the midwives for either of my homebirths, yes (after consulting with them and talking through any issues relative to my case that might affect things), I probably would homebirth.

I love Mary Cronk's articles on breech, so completely sensible.

If my midwife was experienced in breech births- Yes Probably

Yes I would stay at home.

Or I would have a vaginal breech birth in hospital as a second choice.

I was in that position until a week ago, this baby (baby #3) was breech from about 20 weeks until 36 weeks.

I did everything - accupuncture, moxi every night, crawling in water, crawling on floor, drinking loads of water, pillows under the bottom, chiro. In the end, I went to the public hospital last week that is linked to our homebirthing program and had ECV done. Whilst it wasnt pleasant, baby turned within 5 minutes and has remained head down and is fully engaged. I am so relieved that my homebirth is back on track.

As im on hte CMWA breech homebirth was out of the question, I talked to an OB though at the hospital and they were willing for me to deliver breech vaginally there. That was one option, the other was try to hire an IM comfortable homebirthing breech.

I was completely and still are comfortable delivering breech at home. Dh not so. I suppose in the end we would have had a hospital delivery.

Goodluck, ECV was not that bad, I definatly would be trying it as an option over delivering at hospital or c-section. Apparently baby turned easily for me as it was my third, and my smallest so far as well as I had it done at 36.5 weeks so baby wasnt that big and there was still space.

I would birth at home providing I had an IM experienced and confident to do so.

Would also depend on presentation. Frank breech - not a problem. Footling would have me considering all the options a little more carefully.

I don't think I would HB a breech baby

I would.

Yes. My home birth babe was breech until a bit over 37 weeks. My midwife was okay with a breech birth if need be, but I turned her (non-ECV/invasive)

^^^^ This.

I wouldn't go to hospital unless I was confident they would all keep their hands off the baby.

No. I am a scaredy cat! I wish I had the confidence to HB! That said - I had wonderful hospital experiences with my 3 babies! How exciting, a new precious bundle - enjoy, whatever you decide!

Sure, why not?

this.

Things that I would consider is type of breech and Midwifes experience, but over all, yes.

Also, if I felt I was in need pain relief I would transfer for it. But I'd much rather have 100% support at home as my default first choice.

Probably not.

This probably.

It was actually brought up at our last childbirth class and I think the issue for me would be that few midwives are experienced in home birthing breech babies as most are going to hospital so they are losing the skill. It is sad but I guess that would make my choice for me.

I think you mean the only practitioners that are experienced are homebirth midwives. There is very little skill for vaginal breech at the hospital. Hands on breech extractions with the manditory epidural is far more dangerous than a hands off homebirth. You are better off opting for a section than a medicalised breech vaginal birth.

There is already a thread with great breech pictures in them I think. I found it. http://www.essentialbaby.com.au/forums/ind...howtopic=876238

Yes I would, assuming as PP have said my caregiver was experienced/knowledgeable. If he/she wasn't I would do everything I could to find someone who was before I agreed to a hospital birth, I would definitely not trust hospital staff to be hands off and avoid intervention with a breech birth.

I sure would! Breech is just another variation on a 'normal' presentation. The hospital here will not allow anyone to vaginally birth a breech, they are all auto c-sec'ed

I'd be utterly terrified for my life and my baby's life if I had to birth a breech in hospital. I would be staying home and opting for a safe, non-interfered with birth.

Good luck OP.

Depends on the presentation. And what the hospital's view was on c'sections for breech. Whatever it took to avoid a c-section would be my choice, unless the odds were very unfavourable.

I don't belong here at all but I was talking about this thread with an UK trained midwife friend/colleauge who agreed that the safest place to birth breech would be with an experienced midwife at home rather than the hospital. At the hospital I work NO babies have breech vaginal births, I am not sure if that is policy or not or the obs just won't do it.
17 years ago my son was breech up until 35 weeks and I asked my Obs if I could have a c section, he, also trained in Scotland, said No, that I had had one baby PV. He was however one of the few who would do it and is now retired.

Sorry if I am butting in here, just an RN, not midwife.

If I was in your situation - assuming your 2 other births have been uncomplicated VB - and my care provider was confident in managing a breech birth and baby had no feet poking out, then yes I would be happy to stay at home .

Best wishes for a blissful birth

Nope, id go to hospital

3rd birth? Provided he isn't footling breech, I'd consider it.

DH was footling breech (late 1960s baby) and FIL describes his birth as 'absolutely horrific' and says he should have been a C-sect, even in the days of vertical scar.

Was directed here by another thread and just want to say a couple of things if you don't mind?
My stand is that I think more women should be able to deliver their babies in a breech position. But for me there would be some 'criteria' --but that is just me.


Breech Births account for less than 3% of all deliveries and no midwife, either independent or hospital, or any obstetrician will have been to 'a lot' of breech births so if they tell you that they are definitely exaggerating.
In over 30 years I guess I have seen about 20 most of those being delivery of a premature baby,second twin or an undiagnosed breech.


To claim breech as a variation of normal is wrong----it isn't. A variation of normal is a face presentation or a POP.
A normal presentation is by the head as every part of our anatomy and the babies head is designed to deliver a head that has been moulded by our pelvis and vagina to allow the babies head to deliver without injury to either mum or baby.
Breech is an abnormal presentation as made obvious by the number of babies that present that way at term and I would have far less concern for a mother having subsequent babies delivering a breech at home as their pelvis has been already proven to be able to accommodate and deliver a head.

The fact is that most women will be able to deliver a breech successfully, my own niece delivered her 3rd baby breech in a public hospital as she has already delivered two babies over 3.5 kgs, this baby was thought to be smaller and her doctor had no plans of C/S as long as there was a bottom coming. She had an interevention free 40 minute labour, complete breech delivery with an intact perineum.
The other fact is that the morbidity is higher--not just from ' too many hands on' but from cord compression as the breech hangs. The risk is not significant but IMO enough to think that a primigravida is probably better to be delivering her breech in hospital or having a C/S.

Anyway--that's just my take

soontobegran - I find it odd that you're using incidence as a measure for what's normal, but then you include face presentation as a variation of normal, but exclude breech. Face presentation is very rare - well below 1%, and some series show below 0.1%. By incidence criteria, breech presentation is far closer to normal than face.

Even POP births are similar or a little less common than breech presentation (ref). (Some studies show a little higher - but the role of epidurals in contributing to POP births could be playing a role there.)

You didn't read what I said obviously.
A normal vaginal delivery is by definition one that is presenting by the head. (face and POP are delivering by the head and are often progressing to a normal delivery until late in labour) It doesn't matter what the stats for face presentation and POP are---a Breech delivery is in no way by definition a normal or variation of normal delivery! How you can imagine that just because the incidence of breech is higher than a face presentation is an indication breech can be classed as a normal delivery I have no idea.

soontobegran: If you define "normal birth" as "head first", obviously only head first births are normal in your eyes -- but that is a tautology. What definition of "normal" are you using, if not incidence, which is the only one you mentioned in your comment? (There are plenty.)

Some might say that a normal birth is one that occurs without any intervention. Some might say that a normal birth is one that occurs with only X interventions, but not Y. Some might say that it's one that results in a "normal" mother and baby at the end (though that is a contentious definition also; some women might feel that a healing episiotomy wound or scalp haematoma is not remotely normal, while some medicos might say that it is; and how about an intervention-free birth and a baby with a disability?) Some might say that it's a birth that occurred without a single "risk" box being ticked on a very long checklist (clearly not a logical statistical definition of "normal", that one!)

You? And, out of interest, what proportion of Australian births would you say are "normal", under your definition?

Nope. I'd also have a c-section, but that's because I'm a scaredy cat after having a high-forceps first delivery with no pain relief!

If it's not your first, and you have an experienced midwife, and there are no other complications, then I don't see why it would be too much of a problem if you actually wanted to do it, lol!

yep, but it would mean changing midwives as mine isnt comfortable with breech birth.

.

Speaking from experience, having had a breech birth - no never.

Yes I would

If I could have the midwife I had with Dexie, then yes.

a breech at home is not comparable with an extraction at the hospital. In fact a section is probably better than the butchery they do at the hospital that is labeled a breech "birth"

I decided not to, but a number of factors played into it.

My first was a caesar, so the homebirth we were planning for our second was already a VBAC. I was through a publically funded homebirth program as we have no IMs in our area, so had already jumped through hoops to homebirth (not to say I wouldn't have jumped through more if I was adamant that breech at home was the right decision).

DD2 didn't turn breech until 35 weeks and I tried absolutely everything non-evasive to turn her; regular acupuncture, chiro, moxabustion. I spent every day in the pool with my bum in the air or doing handstands, each night lying upside down on the ironing board against the couch and overnight with pillows underneath me and she wouldn't turn. Determined to HBAC I eventually tried ECV but she still wouldn't budge. She was a very unstable lie..would flip side to side and just about transverse but wouldn't turn. She would extend her legs into the birth canal into footling position and then move up again and look like she was positioned to descend bum first. As she was so unstable and because we had the option of a very, very supportive OB, I decided to transfer at 39 weeks to hospital. I think that fact that the OB was truly supportive, experienced in VBAC & breech and a well-known vaginal birth supporter, that the decision for us was much easier. I'm not sure what I would've done had this not been available to us. Most of the requirements listed in my birth plan (now very detailed due to transfer) were not only received well, but strongly supported and this also made a difference.

As it turned out she stayed put, unstable, to 42 weeks and descended during a very fast labour one leg first, one leg tucked underneath her with head jammed under my ribs and cord wrapped tightly twice around her neck, so it was c/sec for us. This was the right decision under these circumstances, but I wouldn't hesitate to contemplate breech at home again should the circumstances be different (i.e. experienced IM and stable frank breech).

Really Serin, why do you feel the need to attack people so much? Maybe breech birthing is just simply out of her comfort zone. Rather than coming in guns blazing why not ask if 3spunkrats would care to share her reasoning behind that decision. We may all be able to learn something from her experience.

I wasn't attacking anyone it was just a statement of fact.