DH likes USA, while I prefer Australia. We both like aspects of the other place too, but of course home feels like home...
If it was simply a matter of the 2 of us, it would be a no-brainer, and we could take turns (in spite of the logistics and difficulties).

But when you add in 2 kids and their stability, well-being, educations and so on....I don't feel we can do that. We recently had friends visit from Australia, who pointed out that we really need to pick a stable place to raise the kids for 'about the next 15 years', and these words really hit home for me. I agree. I don't want to move the kids around a lot, especially with them being school age. (I know it isn't always a bad thing, and can even be great, but I definitely want to minimize the disruption to them.)

So what to do? How do you weigh up where is the best place to raise your kids?

I think Australia is (of course!), despite having some issues and downsides (like anywhere)....the quality of life (to me) is far superior.
DH thinks Hawaii is (he grew up here, his parents and childhood friends are here). The weather is amazing, the outdoors places are beautiful, but the quality of life does not compare. You work hard, costs are high etc.

Anyone else had a hard time deciding? And how do you come to terms with it?
Flip a coin?!
How long do you think you should commit to staying in any one place, for the sake of kids? (I'm thinking until they are about 18, at least).

I can't give you a good answer, but I am coming up to the same dilemma myself.

My DH is American and we currently live in the US. For us right now it is a financial decision to stay in the US. The cost of living where we are is sooooooooo much cheaper that anywhere we would live in Australia. I have an excellent job, but could probably get similar at home.

For us right now we are planning on being here at least three more years, until I can apply for citizenship here, our son is a dual citizen.

Long term I definitely want to go home and I have made it clear to my DH. My mum is now 79 and I really want to spend some time with her while she is still healthy and happy. My DH's mother just passed away, so he has no parents here, his family are not as close as mine and we see my family more than his, even though mine live on the other side of the world. I really hate that.

Fortunately my DH is on board with moving to Australia, but the timing is in question. I don't think you need to commit to one place for 15 years, but I also don't think you can drag children from pillar to post. I would like my kids to be settled in a country for all their high school years.

So for us, our plan is to get in a very financially sound position and then look at moving to Australia. Hopefully it will be sooner rather than later, but who can tell . . .

Thanks for your reply! I see what you mean about one place for high school at least. I think I will try to negotiate for that to be in Australia. Unfortunately, here in Honolulu the cost of living is really high which doesn't help matters. We were far better off in Australia financially, but with DH's parents aging, and mine verydistant from where we were based it was an emotional choice. But while grandparents can be wonderful, and while we are conscious time with them is limited (late 70's) there is more to a healthy, happy, good quality life.

I should definitely not have watched 'Sicko' last night too!!

I saw Sicko just before I moved here!! Shocking wasn't it?

I am going to be in Honolulu in two weeks - so excited!!! I live in north Carolina

I totally understand! I'm American and DH is Australian. We've lived in Canberra for the last 10 years. We both have great jobs and love living here. It's just that my parents' health isn't the best and of course they're getting on in age. I'd like to spend more time with them, rather than trying to cram quality time in during visits every few years. DH isn't a fan of living in the US even though he does like to travel there. I think he just wouldn't live near my family. The area I'm from is quite conservative down in the Bible belt.

The cost of living would definitely be cheaper for us in the US, except for the whole insurance thing. We don't have any children but have been trying with IVF for the last several years. I don't think we'd be able to afford to keep trying if we lived in the US. I'm not sure if DH would qualify for health insurance either because he has a history of cancer. If he was able to qualify, our insurance payments would be huge. So I guess financially it makes more sense to stay here.

There are so many great things about living in both countries. I think I'm just a bit homesick!

Not my own experience, but my neighbours. They have older kids - 13 and 11 maybe. The DH can't (won't) live here, and the wife can't (won't) live in Germany. So she lives here with the kids and the DH comes and stays for several weeks a year and the DW and kids go over there for several weeks a year. I suppose they also make good use of Skype, email, etc. I always thought she was divorced, but not so. I'm not sure I could make a marriage like that work, but they seem to. They have around three months a year intensive time together, which is probably similar to the average family's time together in between school and work commitments, music lessons, sport etc.

I'm Canadian and DH is Australian. I'm lucky that my parents immigrated to australia soon after I did, so I don't quite have that family pull to go back home.

I don't see why you can't move back and forth a bit if you wanted? Why stay put for 15-18 years? Kids can adapt and it's not like you will be switching between languages with the different countries.

Between the US and Australia though, I would be leaning towards Australia for the quality of life...but Hawaii would be pretty nice.

While I love Canada and would love to live there again, I try to look at it rationally and take my heart out of the decision. Financially it made more sense for us to live here (DH has a job in a niche industry), the weather is sooooo much better there is simply no arguement there, easier to raise kids in this climate too!
Some things are cheaper here (not food and housing, but electricity is!)..I try to think of the positives.
At the end of the day though, someone needs to compromise and both people in a multicultural relationship will never be 100% happy and settled.
Australia will never feel totally like home to me. I don't expect it too either so that's why I'm ok with being here-because I am not trying so hard to make Australia my perfect place.

I don't think having kids should hold you to one place though. That's not fair on anyone. To have to lock yourself in somewhere is too hard. Just pick where it is the easist/best now. And if that changes in a few years, that's fine too. Move.
The chance for kids to experience and live in 2 coutries is a positive, not a negative!

I'm the American, he's the Aussie. One amazing thing about being a dual-country household is that you can take full advantage of what both places have to offer at any given moment. We made a loose plan to do the following:

2008-2015/6: Stay in Oz, have any babies here, play the housing market enough to "climb" our way up to a decent buying budget. I felt it was good to have young kids here as our neighborhood kids play in the street, the beaches are easy access, outdoor life is great for a little kid learning about the world, and such a lot more than what I'm used to in the US. And yes, cheap medical care is a consideration during the vaccination years.

2015/6-2029/30: Move to the US. Probably San Francisco Bay Area, though we'd consider a pitstop in Hawaii for a few years. I personally feel the public schools are better in the Bay Area than the public schools here and husband agrees as he feels his own education was lacking in many ways. We both also prefer the 21 drinking age/culture. There are a lot of other factors in this as well, such as general culture, getting to be nearish my family for awhile, and so on. Medical coverage doesn't scare us a bit, at that stage, as insurance comes with pretty much every decent job.

2030ish-onward: Kid(s) will be gone to college (in whichever country they like) or "real life". I will be in my early/mid 50s, hubby in mid/late 40s. So, we'll just see where our careers take us at that point. We both have very mobile professions (him=carpenter, me=future chef) so could move just about anywhere that would have us. We rather like the idea of Oaxaca Mexico for retirement, or Normandy France. Guess we'll just see where the wind blows!

Note: I'm an only-child so it's more important for me to have access to my parents in their elder years than for hubby as he is one-of-three, so that's another factor in our plans.

If you're going to move... I would say the best times are around kindergarten age for your oldest, or when your oldest is about to finish elementary school. Moving during middle/high school can be particularly sucky--so say from 12/13 onward. It's a tough decision from both sides. Good luck!

My DF is American and I'm the Aussie. Right now we have decided to stay in Australia. Our decision came down to quality of life in the end. My DF's family live in L.A near a not so safe suburb also there was the factor of medical insurance. I find the health care system crazy. Australia may have a few problems but I feel safe going to the shops, I can go to a doctor for free and I can go to a hospital and not have to pay off the costs for the next X amount of years. I also have a secure job and our apartment is across the road from the beach

Sjm218 - yes, "Sicko" was totally shocking, I think I'm still in shock really (thus this entire chain of thought really!)

Carita - homesick, oh yes...aging parents in the equation makes it really hard. The thought of 'mercy dash' visits to another country scares me too....but I guess it is inevitable

Puggle - I can't even imagine how your neighbours can cope with doing a long distance marriage like that. I couldn't....and I can't imagine how that is for the kids too. They must be stronger stuff than me!

Maple Leaf - yeah, Hawaii is pretty darn nice, I must admit. We are spoilt for choice, in truth. I like your perspective on staying open to moving. I guess I worry to much about how it would affect the kids, but as you say, they do adapt and there are certainly more traumatic things that a child can go through than moving country (which I'm not going to think about beyond that!)

Kpingitquiet - yes, I like your plan. We also chose to have all babies in Oz! Wise move. We also did we on the housing market there and still have a place. Wow, if you are doing pitstops in Hawaii and we are still here you must let me know! I love the Bay area too, we have family there as well, so that has also been a consideration. I just get anxious about the kids being in schools there - I guess the idea you get from media is all metal detectors, gangs, frisking, drugs etc...not the greatest picture. I'm sure there are many fine schools. I agree with you about age 21 for drinking. My oldest is in kindergarten now, and in a great little school.

I think this is our (vague and not set) plan...

- keep our property in Australia and try to get it to the point where the rent covers entire mortgage (if the stupid rates would stop soaring)
- buy a small place over here (I love the fix for 30 years mortgages, really great) - just something modest that will be rented out later if we don't live in it and would give us flexibility in either direction
- in my mind about 2 more years would be a good time to move - 2014, so my daughter would be finishing 3rd grade, and my son would be finishing kindergarten....and actually, if life meant this took 2 years longer, I guess that would be an okay time too.

Thank you all so much, you are giving me so much sanity right now
And really good ideas....
I will chat to DH, I know he likes Australia a lot too (even if it isn't 'home'), and thinks its a good place for when the kids are a bit older, so that could all work well.

JJ and U - yep, the health care system is TOTALLY INSANE....I can completely understand that being a factor. And I have been to LA and can understand you not wanting to be there too!

PS Love the embroidery designs on your blog - so cute!

I was born in the US and have dual citizenship (but have grown up in Australia), and DH is American. We've made the decision to stay in Australia, simply because we're happy here! DH's family is all over there, but he has no desire to move back. IF he wanted to, then I'd probably consider it but for now our life is here and MIL is making her first visit to visit her granddaughters in October.

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I would be looking at who has the best education system for primary, secondary AND university.

I have a friend with a friend who is a teacher in Hawaii and they are having all sorts of problems with the 4 day school week...

http://www.dailyillini.com/blogs/different...blems-in-hawaii

Crankybee, the public school system in Hawaii is terrible. I think it rates 2nd worst state in USA, and that iscertainly saying something. Fortunately, we got DD into a good elementary school, and she is bright and doing well, but I must admit I try to supplement a lot out of school, with educational books, lots of reading etc. Beyond 5th grade is when it becomes more worrisome. The $20k per year private schools are among the best in the country, but the divide between those and the public system is a gaping crevasse, and I definitely don't want my kids going down it!

i'm aussie, husband is swiss. We moved here to Switzerland 5yrs ago - this was actually initiated by me. Now we have a 3.5 and 1.5yr old. In all honestly i have no desire to live in Australia but I miss my family heaps. He isnt particularly close to his family, except for his widowed mother (who is elderly). He has never said so but I think he wants to stay until she passes on. And then he would be more open to moving back to Australia where he lived on and off for about 10yrs.

The lifestyle and financial rewards are a lot greater here. I would happily stay here if it wasnt for the 24hr flight back to melbourne!! I love that my kids are bilingual now and will likely pick up at least another one if not two languages. Education is great and free. And once the kids are a bit bigger the travel oppurtunites are immense and right at our door step.

But at the end of the day I still dream that my kids will grow up with cousins and grandparents - a real sense of extended family. This will not happen here in switzerland.

The hardest thing is that when you have kids the longer you stay somewhere the harder it is to move. I would happily move anytime from now until they finish primary school. But once they start high school I would then not entertain an overseas move until they finish high school.

Anyway...in my head we are here on a quasi-temporary status. But in reality I think we will be here longer than any of us ever planned. Thats how life turns out isnt it?

My parents had us do high school in Australia, which is where they wanted to end up permanently - Australia - because it is high school where you start to make strong ties to community and friends. They were concerned that wherever we did high school was where we would make our life from then on. Anyway, they waited until my brother was 18 and then took off overseas for 7 years and left us at home. It worked out well, because they then came back and we are all settled down in the same country.
Something worth considering.

Thanks for your replies, swissmum and libbylu. I would definitely like to return to Australia for high school....which gives me a few more years to work on hubby! I think he might come 'round if things don't improve here in that time.

Swissmum, having grandparents is really the clincher for us staying right now. We feel they are important relationships to foster while the kids are still young (and - let's face it - while grandparents are still alive)....but I totally see the appeal of Switzerland, it sounds like such a great place to live.

I guess I just have to get used to feeling in limbo...