I just have no answers to my child's behaviour at the moment and could really do with some advice please!

I have had growing concerns about my 3.5 DS bad behaviour, defiance and deliberately ignoring other grown ups. I am not opposed to smacking, but clearly it is not working for us at the moment and need to find another method of discipline.

Tonight's incident:

Read bedtime story, say goodnight, turnout light and leave DS room.
He sometimes turns his light back on and flicks through the book we just read (this is a recent trick) and then either turns the light off and goes to sleep or just drifts off and I turn the light out.

Tonight I notice the light on (1.5hrs after this bedtime) and just instinctively knew I needed to check on him. He has climbed onto a desk and climbed (I'm assuming as I have no idea how he reached it) a set of shelves to obtain a bottle of PVA glue and has stood on the desk with the glue open dribbling it over everything... the desk, his book, the computer (we are inbetween houses at the moment and staying with my parents - they have converted their computer room to be his room), the keyboard, his bedside light.

When I realised what was happening I marched in there, grabbed him off the desk, removed the glue and stormed over to the garage, placed him on the door mat on the floor of the garage (the internal garage door is almost opposite his b/room door) left the light out and demanded he stay put and do not move from that spot.

I cleaned up the mess...took me almost 30 minutes...marched back over to him and told him to get up, led him to his room, placed him in his bed and pretty much said:

you're not to move, you're not to turn on your light, you're not to get out of bed, you're not to make a fuss. I'm furious with you. I'm so cross I could leave you to sleep in the dark garage by yourself tonight (yeah a bit dramatic and never meant it but I was so cross). I will deal with you in the morning.

So now my question to you... what the hell do I do? How do I punish him? I want him to understand just how disobediant and deliberately destructive he'd been and make him realise consequences which he will not like will follow.

Please help me!

PS... In other thoughts... imagine if I hadn't seen him doing it and had woken up to dry glue in the morning (and there was a lot of it)! YIKES!


**reposted from 'behaviour' thread as I am really hoping for some answers**

He's 3 and a half. He's already been punished.

The only thing zi would be doing is moving anything out of the room that is destructible and moving towards a star chart for staying in bed.

I'm no expert but I think consequences only work when they are clear from the get-go, so punishing him for this incident after the fact is not likely to achieve much (and having to wait for 30 mins on a mat in the dark is probably a sufficient and timely consequence; anything further in the morning would probably seem arbitrary and unconnected to the glue incident). You may benefit from having a more consistent approach to his behaviour - I recommend Alyson Schafer's, outlined in her two books (Honey I Wrecked the Kids and Breaking the Good Mom Myth; she also has a website http://www.alyson.ca/ ). She proposes that instead of punishment, children need to see the advantages of living socially and decide to follow the rules. She is very big on allowing choices and natural or logical consequences, and staying calm and positive and having fun yourself (so that children can see that living within the boundaries can be fun for everyone). Whatever strategy you choose, good luck; it's hard when they push the boundaries!

I really think you need to be mindful that due to his very young age, an ongoing punishment might not be appropriate - it just may not suit the amount of long-term memory he will retain/use. You already know the garage thing was the wrong thing to say, so I won't criticise you further for that. Sometimes we just snap.

But I think it's important to remember that the intent behind a 3 year old putting glue everywhere is very different to a 15 year old doing it - it's not necessarily a malicious act designed to anger or cause distress (it might be), it may be just that he was bored, felt like playing, it seemed fun. In which case, yes you need to make it clear it's unacceptable, but I think you've done that and I'd let it go now.

Get a good night's sleep and start the next day fresh. I have three boys. He is 3, he is a child. He is learning how to behave and live with others. He is learning from your example - step up. If you are worried about things getting damaged, then remove them.

He is in a different environment, it is dark, he was unsettled and wanted to explore. The behaviour wasn't good but I understand it. I'd be mortified at myself not childproofing the room, especially of someone else's posessions.

As a parent, you cannot hold a grudge. Every day is a new day. A child might have the memory of an elephant but parents need to forget and reset every night.

OP. I don't know if you are going to get the results you want. I do understand though. Tonight my 3.5 year old drew a large muriel on our freshly painted wall. You have to understand...the limitations of their age.

Did you really leave him by himself for thirty minutes in a garage? I don't know whether I would have done this.

Some things we do that helps:

1. Understand that just because a child cries does not mean that they understand what they have done. For me, if talking wont work, becuase they are too young then they are unlikely to understand the whole situation just because you smack them. (We don't smack either)

2. He is old enough to help you clean up the mess. If DS wont help or cant, then he sits and watches me clean up. I often hold his hand while I do it.

3. I am having trouble with DS at nighttimes too. He seems more defiant at this time. I honestly think there is a geniune need for company and seperation anxiety there in my son's case. It's a quiet time - a time just for him, and he likes it and he wants it to go on.

TBH, we aren't at the stage of just walking out. Im not saying its wrong to do what you do, but in my son's case - it wouldn't work.

I tend to believe you watch and listen to the child. There are no real backward steps. You merely give the child what they need at the time. Sometimes you revert to previously learnt techniques - but your child is the best guide.

Remember, punishment is about them - not about you. You might want to get them to understand but it might just be beyond them. It is about helping them. Tips as a teacher I find works:

1. Know when to walk away. It is perfectly okay to say. I am so angry at you now, I can't talk to you. I need you to sit/stand/go there and I will talk to you in a minute. I need to compose myself. Please go.

2. The more angry you are, the quieter you get. That is, don't yell. Imagine how scary a big noisey person is.

3. Ask questions, why did you do it? Why was it wrong (3 year olds wont get this. For them right and wrong is dependent on rules only not on morality so they are likely to think something is wrong because you get in trouble or that when you do it that you have to sit on your spot), What happens when you do this? What can we do to fix the situation? Some of these questions are very hard. Little kids develop morally and cognitively

Wow. You have no idea what you're in for do you.

I suggest looking into some new techniques in terms of dealing with a toddler/ young child.

I too see it as him exploring rather than deliberately setting out to ruin things or have you clean things for hours I'd also take it on board that glue cannot be left where he can reach it.

In terms of 'punishment' I would not be doing much more. I'd be having a talk to him to make sure he understood it was not on and why. As silly as it sounds, if this is the first time he has done it, he might not be aware that you don't do this type of thing!

What I might do it take away his gluesticks or messy craft activities if they are accessable to him, and let them know if he cannot use messy stuff responsibly, they will only be used when you are supervising this. If there is any more clean up involved, I would also get them to help.

Start by removing any objects of potential doom out of his reach.

You may well be able to finish there.

I get that it's frustrating, but he's still so young, and really doesn't understand the consequences. Remove temptation and see how you go.

I think you've done enough, TBH. 3.5 wouldn't really have the foresight to realise that that would be such a big deal. I'm quite sure he gets it now. I would imagine that alone in the dark for 30 mins in the garage would be pretty scary for the vast majority of 3.5 year olds.


That's terrible, Muriel .

Holy crap.

I think your reaction is a bit over the top. in fact completely over the top. He is 3. You do not leave an upset 3 year old outside or in a garage in the dark for over 30 minutes. That is crazy.

Last week my three year old got out of bed, got into the craft cupboard, spread glitter and black paint all over the rug and herself.

It took longer than 30 minutes to clean up, demolished a rug and emptied the craft cupboard of supplies.

We dealt with it by washing her down without speaking much, (I was trying not to blow my fuse or yell but I may have yelled when i saw the mess), talking to her about why she did it then putting her straight back to bed with no further attention. We discussed it the next day and every night we ensure she goes to bed and stays there.

Further thought has led us to believe it is probably some stress inside the household (due to sisters health issues) causing her to act out for attention.

I get you are upset but he is three. 3 year olds do NOT have the same impulse control as adults.

I haven't had my baby yet.

I remember many years ago taking care of my ex's niece, she was 3 when we met.

They're only little! He wouldn't know what exactly what he'd done, he doesn't know the degree that he's being "disobedient" and "deliberately destructive", and he wouldn't grasp or match the "consequences" to his actions. He's just a little boy!

I am just a bit disturbed as to how safe the garage was to leave him in as well?

I think vigilance is a big part of parenting little tots, but I know it will be a hard slog when it happens to me.

Point of clarification from original post - the garage was not pitch black. He was basicallly sitting at the entrance which leads into well lit living room. Plenty of light - door was left open and I checked on him regularly whilst cleaning up. He was fine.

RE... knowing right from wrong and being inquisitive - he knew what he was doing was wrong. There is no two ways about that.

Re... 30mins 'in garage'. I'm sorry I didn't explain that clearly... I meant the whole saga of cleanup including changing his sheets, washing out bucket and face clothes from glue, dry wiping glued books took about 30 minutes. He was probably waiting at the garage door for 15 minutes. I bought him in and made him help me pull off sheets and refit new ones before putting him in his bed - then I dealt with the aftermath cleanup once he was in his bed.

And to be exact he is only 4 months off being 4 years old.... so I would've thought a preschooler would know better.

have replied in your other thread too, but I have learned the hard way that they don't know better, and once I started to change my unrealistic expectations of child behaviour we are all a bit happier.

Could your son also be having trouble sleeping because of the change of environment?

I think they know better at that age. I don't think they have the same ability of impulse control to restrain themselves. I know my 3 year old knows she is doing something wrong, but I don't think she has the ability to stop herself if that makes sense. I think big punishments and reactions can sometimes make it worse, especially if they are doing ti for attention - I mean they hit the mother lode with a reaction like that

I would talk to him in the morning about it. I would punish by removing any access to things like glue, felt pens etc unless he asks first until he can be trusted with them. Then I would leave it at that.

LOL that's pretty much exactly what I said in the other thread, as well as this:



Playing with the textas still ends in disaster here.

DRELLA - thank you for link. I will look into it.

To other posters... where would you have put your child after this incident? I am genuinely interested to know.
I have never made him sit to the entrance of the garage before but needed to move him somewhere where I could keep an eye on him but where he couldn't have fun or interact with others (his grandpa was watching a TV show def unsuitable for kids so couldn't make him sit outside his door and wait. I was too angry with him and didn't want hime underfoot in his room while I cleaned up. His sister was in her bedroom asleep. I could not trust him to put him in any other room.... what other option did I really have?

Thank you all... I appreciate your feedback and would love to learn more about how you deal with discipline and rewards and consequences with an almost 4 year old.

Tomorrow is a new, fresh day...there is no point getting all heavy about it first thing in the morning. I think we'll just discuss it. I'll ask him why he did it but I'll guarantee you he'll tell me 'I don't know'. That was the same response I got when I asked him why he'd uprooted his grandfather new herbs and seedings we'd been lovingly nuturing for 2 weeks prior. *sigh*
I suppose I'll tell him how that made me feel and make sure the light no longer comes on after we say good night (he has a nightlight too so his room is not totally dark) and do another sweep to ensure nothing else that can cause disaster can fall into his clutches (easier said than done when you're living with other people who forget how curious and determined little ppl can be to get their hands on things when they set their mind to it).

Other than that I suppose I right it off as a bad joke and learn from my mistake.

Thank you again.

My DS is 3yr6mo so only 2 months younger than yours, and he pushes my buttons every single bedtime. Some nights I feel like walking out the door because I'm not sure I can do another night of 2 hours putting back to bed. And sometimes I yell. A lot.

Even still, your OP had me recoiling a little because it sounded a lot harsher than perhaps you meant it to. As hard as it is to get clarity when you feel so bleeping angry, remember there's no way your DS could know that a dose of glue would do anything perminently harmful to a computer. I wouldn't punish him tomorrow at all because, as PPs have said, the connection won't be fresh and you've punished him sufficiently already. I'd talk about why you were angry and perhaps explain the consequences of pouring the glue onto a computer/ sundry desk items.

I can't answer that because I don't know your floorplan. If I put my DS in our garage he'd be 10m away from the house without lighting altogether. We have a small house and our 'separation place' is the bathroom. It's central within the house and there aren't any toys in there.

Glad you are feeling better OP. I promise in years to come this will be an incident you laugh about. My rug is ruined and hasn't been replaced yet and it has already lost the sting of anger when I think about it.

In our house i would have sat her at kitchen table in that situation. But I generally make her help clean up if she makes a mess because she hates it and even though it takes ten times as long and is very painful, it does seem to have an affect on her.

Glue obviously is different but perhaps he could have helped put sheets in dirty washing etc. Or just find a quiet place like on your bed etc?

I would sit down and have a chat with him about respecting other people's items and how he really could have ruined the computer or other things in the room. And make it clear to him in future that if he ruins other people's belongings that he will lose some of his own (for example take away a favorite toy if something like that happens again)

Could he possibly be unsettled with staying at your parents and the move?

It's not easy, this parenting gig, and sometimes you to blow your fuse but take a deep breath, relax tonight and start afresh tom.

Wow, well, he is only a 3.5 yr old! I have a 3.5 yr old and he is a little sweetie put but he is he too would 'explore' his new surroundings and want to see what the glue pot was.

Personally, i would say it were more the parents fault for not removing it. rather than a little boy's curiosity getting the better of him.

As for discipline, each to their own but personally i don't smack, i would never inflict pain on my child but its of course up to each parent.

DS tries all ways to get out of going to sleep, asking for one more story, switching his lamp on and off. If he does this i simply go in and turn it off again, giving him no atttention, i do not speak to him i give him to attention at all, and make sure they is nothing in there to entertain him so there is no point staying awake if he isnt getting any attention and has nothing to play with.

DS got into the painting box one morning while he was meant to be waiting in his room while i cleaned up his sisters gastro nappy, and he painted the floor, (we;d just paid to have the floors sanded and polished), the front door, the stairs up to the bedroom and a collection of his toys! I simply expalied it was not a good idea to do that because of the mess and asked if he understood what i had explaied, and then i cleaned it up - took a long time! But he's a kid, they do things like that.

And i still have nail polish all over my couch from where DS decided to paint his nails about a week ago! Its totally ruined and is a rather expensive couch he just thought he was painting his nails like mummy does

So first off, i'd go through the room and take away all the un-friendly kid items - he's a little boy of course he is going to want to touch things... then i'd read him his story and leave the room - if he puts the light back on just go back and swithch it off if he isnt asleep in 30 mins.

In the morning, id simply talk to him about it, about what and what isnt allowed in his grandparent s house - no yelling or shouting, then id move on and forget about it.
Good luck with it, but please don't be so hard on him, he is only a little boy.

My DD is at the same age. She absolutely knows when she's done something she shouldn't (because she'll immediately launch into a huge made up story about how the special Swiss snow globe ended up covered in bright pink texta - apparently a pink dinosaur with really huge teeth did it) - and it's super hard on occasion to actually hold it together and not yell and blow my top at her. I keep trying to remember that they're still testing their boundaries at this age and their minds are still working out that "if I do this, then what will happen...will it run out slowly or super fast? Will it be sticky or smooth"?

The other night I heard her in the bathroom and she started yelling out "oh no, oh no, it wasn't me" - as she's standing in the bath still holding onto a brand new bottle of my (expensive European) bath oil which she'd completely upended into the bath tub. I had to see the funny side since she was immediately trying to deflect blame - and to think what an idiot I was for leaving the bath oil right by the bath where she could reach it. Must have looked inviting to a curious little miss like her. At least she smelled super awesome after her bath that night.

I read recently about making them understand that there are consequences for their behaviour. For example if they refuse to eat dinner, only to complain when they get into bed about being hungry that you shouldn't give in and feed them but to make them go hungry to understand how their decisions have consequences. And of course keeping in mind the age of the child and how much they will truly understand. Such as with the garden situation, maybe getting him to assist with putting them back in but then not letting him be involved for a little while until he can be 'trusted' not to pull them out again.

But they sure do know how to push buttons at times. Good luck