Has anyone read this book?

"If at all possible, a boy should be cared for by his parents or a close relative (apart from the occasional trusted babysitter) until the age of three. Group care of the institutional kind does not suit a boy's nature below this age".

It goes on to say that boys that are in institutional care have increased misbehaviour, anxiety and their relationship with their mother can become weakened.

I was intending on going back to work when my little man was 12 months but after reading this now I am not so sure.

Has anyone put their son in daycare before the age of three? What are your experiences?

I'd imagine there have been plenty! and I'm sure they all don't misbehave or have weakened relationships with their mothers.

I don't have experience with this, but it seems a sweeping general statement the author has made. Don't feel guilty about returning to work. You know your child best and know how they will cope and adapt to childcare

You can find research to support just about anything... I'm sure you could find something that supports you choice to go back to work.

You will drive yourself insane - just go with your gut instinct about what will work for your family.

My son hated it and I believe that we experienced all of the above problems. I moved him to family daycare and have not looked back....1 carer that he was able to form a bond with, he is at her home so not too different from actually being home and he can be with his sister.

I can see lots of people in the process of replying. LOL

I haven't read the book but have teaching friends who rave about it, best books for learning about boys etc. My DS went to daycare at 2 years old (only a short time after his 2nd birthday) and has never had any social problems, problems bonding with me etc. I have to say that he only went 2 days a week, not full time. My personal feeling is that with the right care and attention outside of daycare hours there would be no problems. In fact I would say that about any child, in any situation! IMHO it's more about how you parent in the time when you are with your children.

HTH.

What a load of rubbish. My DS has been in daycare from 18 months. He is now in Kindy and LOVES it! He has a best friend, his speach has come on leaps and bounds, he eats everything I send in and he is tired at the end of the day. Everything I could wish for. Our bond has not been damaged. He loves telling me who he has played with and what they have done.

He is learning social boundries and how to play in groups which I feel is very important. It will help him when he starts playing team sports. For my DS is has been wonderful for his development. I understand its not for every child so am prepared to keep an open mind.

I think its another way of inducing mother guilt.

lol my eldest (now 7) went to child care at the age of 8 months (when I had to return to work) until the age of 3.5 when he was almost ready for kindy.

He is one of the most sociable kids I know and we have a big bond too so no him going to childcare has not affected him in the least

We chose family daycare as the happy medium.
It's a small family environment so I wouldn't consider it institutionalized.

But in the end you gotta do what you gotta do.

my son went at 2, he loved it and it was the best thing we could do for him (there are a few issues with him). he has come ahead in leaps and bounds, and is now in preschool and still loves it

Both my boys have been in day care since before their first birthday two days a week and I don't think their behaviour is any worse than others. I have a friend whose little boys started just before his 3rd birthday and he is a nightmare. Spoilt, cries if anyone tells him off or if he doesn't get his own way or a child is playing with the toy he wants until he gets the toy. I think that you need to do what you feel is best for your family unit.
It is a general statement and there are many other factors that influence your child not just care.

Agree. Do what is right for you and your family. Every child is different and there are also many studies done on different aspects of parenting that often contradict each other. Authors can claim to be an expert, however you are the expert on your child. I must admit that I no longer read these books as I found them not just unhelpful but often made me doubt myself.

I haven't read the book.

My DS is almost 18 months and has attended daycare since he was almost 6 months. Started at one day a week, and now he attends one full day and 4 four hour days.

He loves it. We changed centres when he was around 11 months and I am not sure if it was a coincidence but he really came out of himself. He has learnt new words and skills that he wouldn't at home and is a beautiful social boy.

He does have carers that he prefers, but is adaptable and it doesn't bother him if there are changes.

I am sure he will pick up bad habits as well over time, but that will happen anyway, and his bond with me is fine. He gives me cuddles and kisses and needs me when he is sick.

Some children will thrive in daycare, others wont, nothing to do with gender.

Bel

I have the book, mainly because I wanted to learn about the testosterone surges.

Not everyone has the option to keep their child at home until the age of 3, I think this is an outdated theory given the cost of living and the need for 2 incomes these days.

All my children have been in day care since around age 1 and I think the benefits of day care far outweigh the negatives, I'm a big fan of it.

My two older boys went to a childcare centre from the age of 6 months.The centre was just wonderful and fantastic for all of us BUT I found I could only leave them there a certain number of half days (I think it was the equivalent of 2 1/2 days a week) before they didn't cope. They wouldn't have been able to go full-time.

Fortunately, some of the childcare workers were able to care for the boys in our home for the extra hours I needed for work.

Hi,
I actually contacted his publisher about this issue as I disagreed with it for a number of reasons (for my family anyway). I wish I could find her email back but I seem to have deleted it.

Basically she said that Steve wrote this from the perspective of living in England at a time when most childcare centres were substandard.

It was kind of a strange response I thought, but maybe it will make you feel better!

accidentally repeated post

yeah and i wonder if steve was willing to pay our mortgage for the 2 years i had to work?

repeat

+1 - DS1 & I definately aren't lacking a bond.

I have however chosen to stay home as long as I can with DS2.
I feel having DS1 in childcare affected me more than him, I'm lucky I can be very involved with the school now. I'm also enjoying being able to drop him off & pick him up each day

Eamon has been in childcare for nearly 3 months now.....and he has loved it from Day 1. He is happy to get there in the morning and happy to come home with me in the afternoon. He sleeps a lot better on the nights he has been there and seems less bored the next day. He is there 3 days a week, Mon, Thurs and Friday. I think each child is different and sweeping statements like Steve Biddulphs create anxiety and angst in those parents who have no choice!!!

I didn't take Biddulph's statement to mean don't use daycare, just to consider different daycare options for boys because on average they have different requirements.

I had a decent reply typed, but couldn't be bothered.

In summary, he sounds like an uneducated knob.

DS started full time (5 days a week) at six months. He is now 20 months and is happy, sociable, polite (please and thank you reliably, understands 'share' and happily hands over toys), and absolutely loves going every day. He still loves his mama and daddy. He knows how to count to 10 in three languages, jump, build towers with blocks and names all the colours of the rainbow. He will often ask for his childcare friends on the weekend by name.

Kids are all different, but I really believe that it takes a village to raise a child, and child care is our 'village'. We always treated it like it was a fun place to go, and I feel like this has been a benefit to him. From what I've seen, the parents who drop off their kids with 'I'm so sorry I have to go to work' end up with screaming kids, and the ones who say 'have fun darling, bye' walk away and their kids go and play. This is not to say that childcare centres and kids aren't different; we have been blessed with a wonderful, council run, non-profit childcare centre which has trainees in all the time so the staff-child ratio is amazing, a full time chef to cook the kids hot food every day etc, and this definitely colours my view.

I think that anyone who makes generalised rules that apply to 'all' people/kids should be viewed with caution. There are some boys, I'm sure, who would prefer to stay home with mum. There are some girls as well. But, at the end of the day, your responsibilities extend beyond just walking around behind your kids, and the financial benefits that my DS gets from my returning to work, in my opinion, far outweigh any benefit he would get from staying at home with me (in fact, I think childcare stimulate him more than I ever could, and I think he loves it far more than he would staying at home).

It works incredibly well for us.

Ok so this is totally anecdotal, but my children reflect the advice of the book.
DD had few dramas while she attended DC.
DS, on the other hand, was unsettled from 2yr3m when he started until this year at 3yr3m when suddenly he's found his feet and now enjoys the experience enormously. He's truly a different kid.

I think it varies greatly with each child. As always, generalisations are just that.

DS1 started two days a week at 9 months, his centre was excellent. He moved to a new place at 2.5 and at 3.5 started three days per week. In retrospect I wished I'd kept him at two days, his behaviour has been very challenging since moving into the older kids room at daycare with a lot of very 'spritied' boys.

DS2 is a very different child - but then, I started him later.

I wish I had kept DS1 out till he was at least 1.5 or 2, but sometimes needs must and of course, hindsight is 20-20.

It really boils down to the individual child and the quality of care. DS is 3.5 and goes 4 days (started at 13 mths with 1 day). Loves it. Great daycare.

If you want a long term anecdotal evidence DH's mother stayed home with him and he hates his mother! No bond there!

there are plenty of women on here that have put their kids into daycare before then. They seem to think it has done no harm. I would not with my own children.

I started my first son in preschool years ago at 3yrs and yes, I think that was too young. I think 4 is the better age if you can.

oh, there will also be a lot of women who poo poo Steve's views because they don't validate their choices. I say pfft, he has some very sensible, parenting from the heart type of advice I like.

My DS started chip are at 5.5months and is now over 3. He loves it!

I don't have a son, but I know a lot of little boys.

While there are clearly individual differences, this advice is consistent with the behaviours I have seen in several of the boys I know who started daycare early. You could see the difference in them before they were in daycare and after they were in daycare.

I think that saying "I had no real choice because of <insert work/financial/other reason>, so therefore the choice I made was an optimal one for my child" doesn't make sense. To me those comments just sound like someone who wants to justify the decision they made. We all do the best we can and we all end up making some choices that aren't perfect - might as well admit them for what they are (for me, some of the sacrifices we have made in order to not send DD to daycare have consequences that are far from perfect, for example).

I read the book, not sure if I agree or not but since we have the option to keep DS at home (part-time with DH and part-time with me) then we will. I enjoy that we're the people he's most bonded to at the moment, there is no-one else as significant in his life as us. But as he gets older then the social opportunities of daycare/preschool will be more than we can offer (even with playgroup etc.) but we have the option to move into that gradually and at his pace.
There are plenty of people who don't have that option and it sounds like their sons are generally fine.

My nephew went to daycare from 6 months. He is the most sensitive, caring, lovely little boy you could wish to meet. (and loves his Mother)

His brother went from 3 years - I love him to death but 'sensitive' and 'well behaved' are probably not really his strong points! They are both good at sharing, socialising and being good friends. Things I think daycare really helped with.

Both children LOVED their daycare experience, loved the staff and were loved in return.

In fact when their family needed a house sitter the children suggested someone from their daycare - which the parents realised was a great idea (if you can trust them with your children you can trust them with your house!)

Nothing but positives in their experiences.

Steve Bidduph is pretty well known for this opinion. I doubt that it is based on fact. Only one of my boys went into care at 2 and that was only for one morning a week. He is my most difficult child but that may be why he was in care at 2, not the other way around

I read Raising Boys when I only had two boys, maybe I should re read now I have four boys

Sorry, I think that is rubbish.

2 of my 3 boys have been to daycare, and started at 12 months. While initially there may have been seperation anxiety (and Im sure this isnt just limited to boys!), they absolutely thrived in that environment. I only sent them for a maximum 2 days per week, but they really loved their time there and it hasnt had any negative impacts at all. As for whether its weakened my bond with them, Im thinking not - given I just got called up to my boys in bed who both needed to tell me that they loved me before they fell asleep .

he is a psychologist/ family therapist. Plenty of people love his ideas about manhood/boyhood ect...

seems people are knobs if they don't say what we all want to hear.

My DS has been in FT daycare since 10 months of age and he is 2 now. He absolutely loves daycare and has just blossomed there. I think that for some children daycare is not a great option but to put a blanket statement on an entire gender is ludicrous and based on this we have a ridiculous number of boys growing up with issues which I'm just not seeing.

I think it all comes down to the personality of the child, the parenting style adopted and the daycare chosen that complements the previous two.

What exactly are Steve Biddulph's qualifications and is his recommendation backed up by peer-reviewed research?

My son actually didn't settle in to daycare as well as DD but has never picked up violent behaviours there. We have a great relationship. The thing that had the most damaging effect on our relationship was the birth of his sister (things are fine now though).

Most of DS' friends from daycare are lovely little boys who aren't rough at all (and are all close to their mothers).

I'm sure plenty of people love his ideas, and I'm sure some of his ideas are helpful. I was just going off the quote the OP posted. I would like to know how he defines a boys nature and how a high quality centre is incapable of meeting the needs of that child.

I am poo pooing his idea because I think it is very narrow minded and not relevant to the average Australian family in today's society (again, only in relation to what the OP quoted). There are times when a family has no other option than to send their son to childcare, why should this mans views on 'institutions' make them feel more guilty than they already do?

OP its a hard one isn't it. The dilemma of childcare.



Steve Biddulph is actually an Australian psychologist. For further reading on the topic read his other book: Raising Babies: Should Under 3s Go To Nursery?, which explains in more detail the potential harmful effects. Part of the issue is also the potential long term effects they may present themselves when the baby/toddler reaches adulthood.

Anyway, the OP failed to mentioned what Steven Biddulph also says in his book, "But daycare isn't all bad news. Good daycare, or even better, a preschool with trained teachers can certainly play its part when children are older or when parents need to work to survive. But you need to know the facts so you can make a balanced decision. Daycare is a pretty second-rate place for toddlers, it's positively deficient for babies, and some children are harmed by it in ways that are hard to see on the surface."

Check out this article which also explains some of his reasonings.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article730070.ece

He's not alone in his view but hie view makes me really angry (although to be fair it could make me angry because my under-3yr old boy is in day care).

I get the ideal, I really do and if my parents or a sibling or anyone really lived near us then I would probably take that option but ultimately I put DS in day care one day a week because I was going mental and the constant 24/7 sameness (including tantrums and general normal insubordination) saw me yell at him! I was more shocked than him. He stopped what he was doing, looked at me, waited a moment then instantly returned to what he was doing. I thought if I'm yelling at a one year old I am not the best person to care for him at the moment. Putting him in day care gave me the break I needed to be a much calmer and patient mum to him the rest of the time. I really can't believe for a moment that having me at my wits end for three years is better than him going to day care once or twice a week?

The only people I've heard promoting this view are men who's starting point is "mum should do it". It's rubbish to think that women don't find doing the same thing every day, listenting to the same tantrum every day and generally attempting to get their child to eat the occasional vegetable, not climb the bookshelves and try to keep them happy at the same time don't find it as hard/boring/long...etc as a man would. Some people love it - brilliant, I wish I was one of them, some of us need a break and this is the best thing for everyone.

Grrr.

Anyway, my DS is in day care with lots of other boys - none of them sit crying in the corner pining for mummy when I'm there (including DS) and DS loves going to day care and hates leaving (they have much better toys!) He'll be fine, we all were (well everyone in my family was in day care from aged one or under and none of us have gone on a murderous rampage yet...)

Why would the author have it on his agenda to increase mother guilt?

In my (limited) experience, it has been true that my son has had a far greater time settling away from me than my DD's. I'm not a big fan of institutionalised care for any child under 3 though, my children always battled in the mornings and didn't want to go (and it's still a battle to get DS to school - but then some people have said this is because he didn't go to childcare enough before preschool ).

In the book it also says something like family daycare or a nanny are worthwhile considering if you want to/need to go back to work, so don't panic.

ETA - something that I wonder is that if a parent can get extremely frustrated and need a break from their child, how is it that the childcare teacher is believed to not get equally frustrated with the 15 or so children in their care? They really don't get paid that much and they have 15 kids day in, day out, working for peanuts.

I do not like Biddulph's stuff. It's based on an essentialist view of men as different from women. Qhy the hell does he say boys who shouldn't be exposed to long term institutional care? If it's wrong for boys, what about girls, too?

In Manhood he talks about how feminism has misunderstood men's essential need to be 'the wild man'. He admires and quotes a lot of Robert Bly, who recommends that men get in touch with essential maleness (the Cro-Magnon Man) by going out camping in the woods.

Sorry 'Where the Wild Things Are' is a great book, but it's for kiddies, not adults.

I do not deny the effect of the body and emotions, but treating males and females like separate species is, in my view, archaic.

Oh don't get me started on Steven Biddulph. I pretty much don't agree with anything that comes out of his mouth!

FWIW my DS now 2 1/2 has been attending daycare full time since he was 1! No out of the ordinary problems and my DD attended daycare full time also from 1 and is now in kindergarten as one of the youngest and pleased to say thriving!

We are doing what is right for our family and that is all that matters. You have to make the same decision for yourself and not feel bowed by peer pressure. I've always been very much my own person and not prone to what the Jones' are doing and it's a great way to live your life!

Edited to add he is an affectionate little thing and the carers say the same thing! One day last week he was hugging everyone!

This ^^^^

My DS went to full time childcare 5 days a week when he was 8 months old. He was at the same centre until he went to school, and went to two days a week when DD1 was born (so he was 3) (we had to keep him in care to keep the spot for him and DD1 for when I went back to work the inevitability of a working mother's life). In the year before school he went to govt preschool 2 days a week, 2 days at childcare and 1 day at home with me (plus the weekends obviously).

He's now nearly 11 and he's fine. We have a great bond - both me and DH with him. And in fact he settled better at daycare than his sisters did because he was there 5 days a week and he got into his new routine very quickly. All my girls only ever went 2 days a week and they took much longer to figure out what day it was and where they were going.

Like PPs have said, you can find research to support any point of view. Don't let the mother guilt get to you. If you have to/want to go back to work you just have to find the care that suits you and your child best, whether that be family day care, childcare, grandparents, nanny etc. You as a fmaily have to do whatever works for your family.

My DS has been in daycare since he was 6 months. At first it was one day a week but now he goes 2 days a week and will shortly move to 3 days (he is one next week). He seems to love it - grins,waves and reaches out to his carers when we arrive - is smiling and happy when we pick him up. He is heaps more social than his mother group friends who don't go to take care - he is not clingy and is friendly with everyone he meets.

My SIL wishes she had sent her DS (3 years) sooner. He has started going to days a week at around 30 months and he has changed SO much for the better. His speech has improved in leaps and bounds, he plays well with others and has minimal tantrums now he has some boundaries.

I dont agree with this at all. I think it depends on the child and you can not make sweeping statements about all boys.

My son has been in childcare 2 days a week from 10 months. He was in a small family run centre which he liked but I did not love. I changed him to a large chain childcare centre and the difference has been astounding. WHile I would say he did like the small family centre, he loves the large institutionalised centre he now attends.

He gets his backpack ready in the morning and meets us at the door, he walks in happily and does not want to leave at the end of the day. The only difference between the two centres is that the large centre has more structured play and he just loves it. He is better behaved when at kindy and the carers love him as he is so laid back.

I dont think he would cope with full time as he still loves his mummy and daddy time and the attractiveness of new toys would wear off but for him it is just a different play environment and since he is such an active boy he enjoys having a different scenary. He is definitely a child who needs to be out of the house so he does not get bored.

Each child is different, I am pregnant now and know my second child may not thrive in childcare. I will cross that bridge when I get there but take each child as an individual when you assess what is best for them.

Hey id love it if family came and cared for both my boys to avoid daycare. But in reality I dont have anyone to look after them, and financially I cant NOT work.

At this time my boys are just darlings. DS1 4yo is loving and emotional and caring and affectionate and a beautiful nature. DS2 1.5 is just a star, really outgoing and fun, giggly and full of boyness.

I think its great that he recommends these things, however in reality it just doesnt work.

Men and women ARE different - to deny this is actually to deny scientific (and logical) fact. I'm sorry if this pushes people's feminist buttons but medical research and sound psychological research has proven that our brains operate differently and that from conception we develop both physically and neuarologically in slightly different ways and at a different pace. Now that is not to say that ALL girls develop identically and ALL boys develop identically, but rather that the general trend points to statistically significant variation between the two. And to state the obvious - the book is specific to raising BOYS.

OBVIOUSLY you know YOUR child better than Steve Biddulph does - I doubt he would argue that point. His opinions are based on the general findings from various research papers and his experience as a developmental psychologist. The idea is to think critically about them and perhaps use this knowledge to your advantage when making decisions about childcare (for example, the type of setting if daycare is necessary or perhaps how many hours a week would be optimal) and to simply be made aware that there can be difficulties.

Just throwing up another argument - on the basis you can get an argument for anything

Hunters and gatherers - most of the children from very young looked after by the older people - mum goes gathering, dad goes hunting. So basically child care (big group of children together!)

I have read studies etc saying all sorts of things wont reference them all, but i believe it is very much about quality - thinking ahead, finding the right place etc etc

From what I know of Stephen Biddulph, he is a very agenda driven and not particularly well qualified individual (ie, can't find any reference to any tertiary qualifications in pscyhology although he describes himself as a 'psychologist') who has set him up as an 'expert' on the subject of what is good for boys (and now wombats as well, apparently). There are so many holes and biasses in what he writes. I certainly wouldn't be making any life decision based on his pontifications.

My own son started daycare 3 days pw at 10mo and was always happy there - despite being a fairly quiet kid. In his case I think daycare really helped him with his social skills. He went to 2 different centres - a baby centre from 10m-2yo and then another centre until he started school. He had great relationships with the carers at both centres and I honestly can't remember a day when he didn't want to go to daycare.

I'm currently reading Simone de Beauvoir and I agree to a point. We need to respect that men and women have been culturally (even when coexisting in the SAME culture!) different and biologically different for all of recorded history. We can't dismiss that in a generation or two.

It's not antifeminist to suggest that there are some pretty specific and divergent needs between the two sexes at the moment.

Do I agree with his comments though? No, and I'd like to see the research.

Personally putting my two year old in daycare for two days a week has been the best thing for him. He absolutely loves it! Runs in the door going in and at the end of the day runs into my arms with a big smile on his face.