Dear all fabulous mothers of twins / multiple babies, I need your help...

Nathan and Jeremy are 7.5 months old and I am facing a bit of a challenge with their sleep...

They were not great sleepers from day 1, but it gets worse as they grow older.

It seems like they only need a very little sleep (is it possible, though?): night sleep is max around 10 hours, and day sleep (accumulated) is max 3 hours.

They usually go to sleep at 9 or 9.30pm earliest and it can take up to 12am sometimes to get them to sleep (especially with the hot weather in Sydney lately).

I have been really worried about their lack of sleep, as I am aware of the link between lack of sleep and developmental problems.

My DH and in laws have been a great support for me, but I really need to convince them that BABIES NEED THEIR SLEEP.
Everytime I show other babies with similar age's routine to my DH (mostly they have similar routine: 7pm-7am night sleep followed by two times of 2 hour daytime nap), he would ask whether those are single babies or not (he knew that all mothers in my April 04 mothers group have single babies).

So, would you please share how your babies' routine look like?
If you don't have much time (which is very common for us, mother of multiple babies), I would really appreciate if you could just share their sleep routine.

Thank you in advance.

PS. All tips on raising twins at my boys' age would be more than welcome!


Regards,

Emilia 29
DH 32
Jeremy & Nathan

<a href="http://lilypie.com"><img src="http://lilypie.com/baby1/050413/1/17/0/+10" alt="Lilypie Baby Days" border="0" /></a>

Hi Emilia!

Sleep can drive you nuts can't it!!!

At a similar age my girls were probably not sleeping all that much longer than your two gorgeous boys (your sig pic is just beautiful!) - maybe a bit longer at night but not much. Let me see if I can remember their sleep routine...

Over night they'd sleep from around 8:30 - 9pm and wake 4-5 hours later for an extra feed (but not get up) and then sleep untill around 7-8am. During the day they had two sleeps of about an hour and half in the morning and then another hour (a bit longer if I was lucky) in the afternoon.

My girl's sleep was very distrubed by their reflux and we would go through periods of not sleeping more than 30 mins twice a day when it was really bad so I thought two days sleeps of an hour or more was wonderful!

I think that as long as your boys are happy - they don't seem like they are missing out on sleep and aren't tired or cranky - and as long as you are coping ok I wouldn't worry. That's super easy for me to say I know!

One thing that really helped us sort things out as the girls got a bit older (past the 6 months corrected mark for us) was to have a regualr pattern to getting ready for bed at night - we wait until DH comes home and all eat dinner together (which means the girls go to bed a bit later than I would have otherwise planned), then DH baths them, they have a quiet play and when they get tired and whingey they have a feed and go to bed. I sort of decided to try and stick really close to that until night sleeps were all going well and not worry so much about how long they slept for during the day for a while. Then when nights were a bit more settled we worked on the day sleeps and I really tried to get them to have at least an hour twice a day, anything extra was a bonus.

I hope that helps.... I'm sure others will have some better tips as we are still battling some sleep issues here so I always have to take a breath and remember that it WILL get better!

hugs

Kate



This message was edited by katef on Sunday, 28 November 2004 @ 12:31 PM

Hi Emilia,

I'm sorry I can't be of much help to you because I have always had the opposite problem to you...my three are very dependent on their sleeps!

I just got out the twins book called, "Twins - A practical and emotional guide to parenting twins" by Katrina Bowman and Louise Ryan.

In reference to sleep it says:


Every baby is different though, and like Kate said if they seem happy enough then I wouldn't worry.

Cheers,

<font color="#3300FF">Renée - Mum to triplets born at 26 weeks & 4 days on 18 August 2002</font>


<font color="#CC3333">Baby due April 1</font>

Hi again

First of all, thank you so much for your response...

Kate:
Your response gives me a relief - at least my boys are not 'abnormal' IYKWIM
I would like to try what you did using the regular pattern. However, as we are a big family (I'm living with my in laws), it's really hard to stick to a routine, as we often get 'interference'.

Renee:
You are right... (of course! ) If they seem happy enough, I shouldn't worry...
What usually annoys me so much is the fact that the boys look tired (rubbing their eyes vigorously and getting very irritatable) but they are said to be NOT tired because they 'still open their eyes'!
Can you believe that?

Anyway, I'd better go, am getting really hot - it's 42 degree here in Sydney now.
Managed to get to EB in this burning hot weather all because I need to calm myself down and EB usually does the job well...
Am currently very furious with FIL who just fed Nathan with what he ate without consulting me AGAIN!!! (he has been feeding the boys what he eats without asking me although I have requested so many times to consult me first!!! Although it's only watermelon this time - before he fed them some chinese herbal thing! - I don't know why it is so hard to respect my request!

SORRY that this has become a vent...

PS.
Any other mother of twins or multiple who has babies with routine?
I would really appreciate more response...

Thank you again.


Regards,

Emilia 29
DH 32
Nathan * Jeremy

<a href="http://lilypie.com"><img src="http://lilypie.com/baby1/050413/1/17/0/+10" alt="Lilypie Baby Days" border="0" /></a>

Hi Emilia,

Me again! I have always used routine with my three, from day one. Even when they were in NICU, I asked for the staff to follow routine as much as possible. I don't know if that is why I've always had good sleepers...maybe because they knew what to expect? Who knows lol?!

And onto your vent.....I would be furious if anyone let alone IL's who should know better, were giving my babies food without asking if it was ok - especially when your are just introducing solids!!!! :mad: Good luck with that.

Cheers,

<font color="#3300FF">Renée - Mum to triplets born at 26 weeks & 4 days on 18 August 2002</font>


<font color="#CC3333">Baby due April 1</font>

Oh that would be tough living with your inlaws especially if your FIL doesn't respect your wishes!

I think if you are really keen on getting into a routine then I'd put my foot down and demand that everyone follows it and kick up a big stink if they don't! I don't mean that everyone should have to rearrange their lives around the babies sleeping, our girls have an unsual sleeping pattern (they go down quite late at night compared to others their age) so that they fit around our lives a bit so everyone is not overly stressed... but consitency is the key. So maybe try and work out a routine that works well with the rest of the family and enlist everyone's help to try and stick to it for a while... once things settled I've found that we can wander from the routine every now and then (like when we go out or something) without too much bother but in the beginning I really had to put my foot down and put them sleeping first.

Hope my waffle helps a bit!

hugs

Kate

I am the routine queen. Even now at 16 months (where does the time go!) they are very much in a routine. I'm trying to cast my mind back to 7 or 8 months. They were definitely having 2 sleeps still (morning they were often back in bed by 9 or so, afternoon about 1.00 as I recall). Those sleeps could be as short as 45 minutes (grrrr) or as long as 2 hours. They were (and still are) always in bed by 7pm - they've slept through since they were 4 months unless they're sick and we get them up at 7am. They did start waking at 5.30 when they were smaller but we left them and now they're happy playing in their cots and "talking" to each other until 7 if they wake earlier.

The disadvantage of routine is that you are quite restricted as to when you can go out, eat etc, especially when they're still having 2 sleeps. The advantages for me and the babies were enormous, though. They know that at night it's dinner, bath, into PJs, bottle, book and bed - never any variation. I stopped looking for tired signs when they were about 6 months and just go by the clock. Whether they look tired or not, it's 7 so it's time for bed. Everyone is different but it certainly works for us and boy do I look forward to 7pm!

Good luck with your boys. It does get easier. As for the IL issue, no real advice as we don't have any family nearby, unfortunately. Just remember though that they are your children and you get to decide what they do and when (easier said than done, I know).



Maree

Harriet Lorna 1/8/03
Eleanor Rosalind 1/8/03

Hi Emilia,

You're boys are so cute.

My girls turn 2 tomorrow. We are now in a good routine too, but when the girls were 8 months, I went to the sleep doctor and it was great.

I'm not sure if your boys are putting themselves to sleep, or whether you are "helping" in some way. This may have an impact on the length of time that they sleep. Babies go through sleep cycles of about 45 minutes. If they don't know how to resettle themselves after that time (ie. like we roll over and go back to sleep), then they will be wide awake, and often grumpy. Also, if they sleep for longer, more rested periods during the day, they will also sleep better and more rested at night.

By the time we were done with the sleep doctor, they were sleeping 12 hours at night (mostly) and 2 sleeps of 1.5 hours during the day. I also went by the clock.

Hope that helps.

Kate
Alicia and Sophie 2/12/02

Hi Emilia,
I have 10 month old twin boys so hopefully I can help you out with the routine ...?

Boys have dinner about 5pm, Play and bath at 6pm. Bottle after this, read some books (boys are starting to associate this with bed) and off to bed. Sometimes need a little pat to get to sleep in their cots.

They both have teeth and we found that interrupted their patterns. They are normally asleep by 7ish, sleep through till about 6ish, play b/fast and normally back into bed about 9ish for about 1 and 1/2hrs. Afternoon sleep ??? this one varies a lot!! But normally for about 1 hr. Hayden (T2) is very social and has never slept as much as Jackson does, but he has never needed it. Just goes to show how different they can be.

Hope this has helped..

For the record we are in Qld so we have no daylight savings...

Rhonda 25
DH 37
Jackson & Hayden 21/1/04
33 Weeks

Hi Emilia

I have b/g twins who will be 11 months next Sunday.

I have always been very strict on their routine. I followed the Feed-Play-Sleep routine.

Their routine at your boys' age was:
7:00am Wake
7:30am Breakfast
8:00am Bottle
9:00am Sleep (1.5 hours)
11:30am Lunch
12:30pm Bottle
1:00pm Sleep (1.5 hours)
3:00pm Afternoon tea
4:00pm Sleep (only 45 mins)
5:00pm Dinner
6:00pm Bath
6:30pm Bottle
7:00pm Bed

They were sleeping through the night without any wakings.

Now at almost 11 months, the only parts of the routine which have changed are they now have lunch at midday and in regards to sleeps, they only have two sleeps a day consisting of an hour - they go to sleep at 9:30am and 1:30pm.

My MIL often watches them as I have been taking my parents to medical appts (my mum has alzheimers and my dad cancer) and she never follows the routine although it's planted firmly on the fridge, so can only imagine how frustrating it would be to have your IL's living with you and not having them do what you want.

Good luck.

Vanessa


ME 32
DH 37
Twins - DD and DS 12/1/04

Hi There,

My boy/girl twins turned one during the week. I am a big one for routine also. Like katef I too have an unusual sleep pattern for them in that they go down at 9-9:30 at night.

But they do have two sleeps during the day of 1.5-2 hours.

At a bit over 6 months I took them to a one day sleep school. I got taught techniques to get them off to sleep (ie let them do it themselves!!!), and presto they turned from the worst sleepers into little angels!!!!

They now sleep 11 hours over night and 1.5-2 hours x 2 during the day. The timing of the morning and afternoon sleep does vary as to what i'm doing!!!

Good luck with it.

Hello....

It's me again!

Thank you all for your additional response.
It all much appreciated!

I'm pleased to share that we have been having some good days.
The boys have decided to sleep longer at night.
After 12am dream feed, they sleep until the morning feed around 6 or 7am. Then they will sleep again until the midday feed - which is around 11am. This is because I have been having the boys in my bed after the morning feed.

Not sure whether it's a good thing to do to let them sleep in my bed for long term, but at the moment it's the best way to get them stay asleep...

Renee:
Thanks for your encouragement and making me not feeling so 'guilty' for being annoyed with FIL. He hasn't spoken to me since I assertively (PS. this is not my personality! Totally outside my comfort zone! LOL!) asked him to consult me before feeding anything, though.
How's your pregnancy going? Not long to go...

Kate (Katef):
It's tough living with IL, but they do offer me much needed support, although there are unproductive help at times.
(My MIL is a better help than FIL! MIL helps a lot without bragging to people, while FIL helps a bit with a lot of bragging, IYKWIM )
I agree wholeheartedly with the 'putting foot down' suggestion, but as I mention to Renee above, just being assertive had caused FIL not talking to me...
Btw, our boys have unusual sleeping pattern too - they usually go down around 10pm (earliest), sometimes up to 12am! If we put them to bed earlier, say 8 or 9pm, they would just take a catnap and wake up and nothing we do can send them to sleep again...
FYI, the house we live in is a '24/7' house. MIL sleeps really 'early' (around 4am! after doing various things including preparing next day lunch for DH, BIL and FIL) and FIL wakes up really early to get ready to go to work (around 4.30am), so noise is something we can avoid while the boys are light sleepers...

Maree:
I so agree with what you mentioned about the disadvantage of routine!
I do feel a degree of flexibility with our current on and off routine
But, as you said, routine gives them (and us! )certainty.

Kate (KateTwinMum):
Happy Belated 2nd Birthday to your girls!
Congratulations for surviving the first 2 years! WELL DONE!
Which sleep doctor are you referring to?
I took the boys for a week stay at Tresillian for self settling when they were 3 months old and it was a great experience for me.
The boys improved, needed less 'help' to go to sleep (they used to be rocked by MIL or occassionally by FIL to sleep! ).
Funny thing, their daytime nap is usually around 30 -45 min only and they wake up happy and seem like the are fully recharged.
It does not matter how and where they fall asleep.

Rhonda:
Thanks for sharing your boys' routine and pointing out that twins can be different too...

Vanessa:
Thank you for taking time to write down your twins' routine! Do they always sleep together? If so, how do you do that?
Thank you also to make me feel that I'm not alone in 'not having things done the way we want'.

Mags:
Happy 1st birthday for your twins! Congratulations for going through the first year successfully!
Which sleep school did you go to?

I'd better go now, both boys are awake and started to ask for my attention... (exactly in 30 minutes! Nathan fell asleep by himself on my bed and around the same time, Jeremy almost fell asleep while he was with MIL and she put him to sleep in his cot).

Have a lovely day...


Regards,

Emilia 29
DH 32
Nathan & Jeremy

<a href="http://lilypie.com"><img src="http://lilypie.com/baby1/050413/1/17/0/+10" alt="Lilypie Baby Days" border="0" /></a>

I JINX IT!

DH is staying home today because he had been busy helping me with the boys who had a terrible sleep yesterday...

They only had 2 very short naps yesterday afternoon.
First nap was only half an hour (when I posted the update). The second was at 5.45pm and got waken up by our 17 years old dog's bark at 6pm and since then Jeremy (the usually easy going twin) had been really unsettle and cranky. Crying and screaming on and off until 11.30pm when he finally fell asleep (and so did Nathan).

At 4.30am he woke up screaming and wanted us to hold him - nothing we did pleased him apart from carrying him walking around the house until 5.30am, when he finally stopped putting on a fight while being put onto our bed...


Regards,

Emilia 29
DH 32
Nathan & Jeremy

<a href="http://lilypie.com"><img src="http://lilypie.com/baby1/050413/1/17/0/+10" alt="Lilypie Baby Days" border="0" /></a>

Hi emilia, my girls are 19 months old today! Thankfully it goes really quickly(most of the time) i am an absolute stickler for routine and although it means you are a bit limited as to what you can do it's worth it in the end. And I dont let anyone intefere with it.

we have had the same routine since they were around 3 months old just day sleeps are now down to 1 only.

At around 7 months.. Wake them up at 7am it's hard sometimes but it gives them enough time to play/eat etc before sleep. back to bed at 9am sleep 45 mins to 1 1/2 hours. Lunch/ play etc back to bed 1pm for around an hour definately NO napping after 3.30pm or you will be in for a late night. play, dinner, bath, bed from 5 till 7pm.

My girls are opposite in the sleeping dept. they are in separate rooms. Amber slept through from around 8 months. Olivia from around 13 months but not everynight I generally get up once or twice a night still.Once I stopped breastfeeding she started sleeping longer.They now have one day sleep from 10-12(fingers crossed) bedtime at 6.30pm and they wake up themselves at 7am.

Occasionaly if they have had a rough night or short day sleep i will still put them down for a second nap after lunch. you'll get really good at working out their sleepiness.

I find the hardest thing for me is if they are unsettled and I dont get to have a shower or do the housework etc that generally I get pretty cranky. Sometimes you just have to go with the flow...

i go to a Mums group that are all singletons. None of them did a routine till around 12 months+ and it's nice to see that even though I have twins I'm probably the most on time because the girls and I stick to the same routine everyday.

Persevere.. it will work eventually...

Cheers Rebecca
Me 31
DP 28
Amber and Olivia 08/05/03