Hi KD,

What a difficult decision! Interestingly, secondary infertility (ie your situation, having had a child but having trouble being able to do it again) is more common than you may think. According to the Queensland Fertility Group their patients seeking treatment for Secondary Infertility have increased by 10% over the past 4 years. QFG’s Senior Fertility Nurse, Carmel Carrigan, sees women distressed by this condition every day.

“They are confused and angry about failing to conceive. They simply can’t get their head around why it isn’t working, when last time it happened all so easily,� she says. “And because quite often all the attention is placed on women having their first baby, women suffering from Secondary Infertility also feel guilty for expressing their dismay at not being able to have a second child when so many women out there can’t conceive at all.�

KD, the biggest thing that could help you overcome your fears is to talk to others. Michael Condon is a senior counselor with the Brisbane branch of QFC and he encourages you to express your fears to people who can offer you support. “Keeping it totally private is the hardest way to deal with IVF,� he says. “If you are experiencing fears then seek out positive, supportive people who you can talk to. Depending on who you are more comfortable in talking to that may be friends and family, a counselor, a medical practitioner or a support group. And of course don’t forget to talk openly with your partner as well.�

Michael also stressed the importance of seeking out people who will be supportive and positive rather than simply people keen to tell you their own personal horror story! “Sometimes I liken starting IVF to standing on the side of a cliff with a parachute, ready to do a base jump,� he says. “It doesn’t matter whether you’ve never done that jump or done it one hundred times, you’re still scared. Having a positive attitude though can work wonders for how you will cope.�

“IVF does involve the medical procedures; the injections, ultrasounds and having a general anesthetic, but I have been counseling patients since 1987 and you know – most people do get through it just fine. Get yourself a good medico and a good clinic who can provide you with all the information that you need – both the general information and your specific information. Having full information about what is going to happen – what the process is going to be – will help to remove some of your fear. Then once you have all that information, take it one day at a time. IVF is not a breeze; it’s hard work. But having all the information will give you the confidence to give it a try, and taking it day by day will help you to cope.�

KD – good luck with your decision.

EB Members: Can any of you help KD with her fears?

Well you don't have to launch straight into IVF for starters. Very few of us infertiles think oh I can't get pregnant the old fashioned way, next step IVF.

For DH and I it was a matter of taking one small step at a time. We saw our GP and he took down our history. Then he ordered a few tests - blood test for me, sperm test and blood test for DH. We progressed slowly from there to seeing a gynacologist/fertility specialist who took a bit more history, repeated the tests, and arranged an ultrasound for me.

As we were 'unexplained' after all that, the FS advised us to try a hormone that stimulates ovulation (Clomid), an oral tablet. We just had to track my cycle and have sex at the right time.

This didn't work so we went on to try a procedure called IUI with stimulation. It's like a starter course for IVF - you take the drugs, injected by needle (like a diabetic needle, they are tiny), are monitored by (internal) ultrasound and instead of a full IVF procedure they simply get sperm from your partner and insert it into your uterus when you have ovulated.

I found that a gentle way to get to the point where we decided we needed to move onto IVF. By that stage we were fairly toughened to all the poking and prodding, needles and so on. It wasn't a huge leap to make (and it produced results!).

Good luck with it all KD, there are alot of people out there doing IVF. You won't be alone.

Hi Justine,
I can understand your fears completely.....I put off IVF for five years because I was too scared to go down that path. And yet when we did jump on the IVF bandwagon I was surprised at how relatively easy it was.
Of course we were lucky and got pregnant on the first round... Zoe is now almost 7 and then we had a home grown surprise who is now 3.
All I can say is that you have to keep your eye on the prize at the end....you don't want to be in your 50s...saying ...if only I'd given IVF a go.
And I know this sounds like a terrible plug.... but I was so amazed with the result I set out to interview other people about their experiences on IVF and ended up writing a book called Making Babies - Personal IVF Stories (Scribe 2007) and most of the people I interviewed came from the essential baby website.
But beware....not all the stories have happy endings..... it is a very realistic appraisal of the process.

It might help you get a perspective on whether IVF is right for you by reading about how other couples coped with it...
www.makingbabiesivf.com
you can also get it at Amazon or on ebooks.com

Good luck!
Theresa Miller

I too put IVF off for years too. Just think of the end goal, the day I said no more was the day I actually was expecting it is so worth it.

Also working with a natural therapies and IVF can be good to for help with your general wellbeing, anxiety and general health. Jason Jackson at Greenslopes works with patients doing procedures and had good results.

I wish you all the best

Justine

We have been on the IVF Roller Coaster coupled with Accupuncture, Cupping & Chinese Meds for many years - without it though I wouldn't have my beautiful daughter who is now 3 & 1/2 as I am unable to fall pregnant naturally. This was due to a ruptured appendix at 8 as well as the loss of my fallopian tubes in later years. My daughter took 6 IVF attempts at falling pregnant and managing to stay pregnant.

We have been trying to get pregnant again for the last 2 & 1/2 years. Again I have managed to successfully fall pregnant via IVF but have miscarried 2 times. So far we have undertaken 15 cycles (this includes the 6 with my daughter). We have now reached the stage of deciding of stopping or trying one more time with a fresh cycle (our last frozen embryo didn't make it and as a result we have just had our 15th cycle cancelled). The decision to stop is an extremely difficult one as we would still love another child. However I sometimes think I should just be thankful for my gorgeous little girl and move on (easier said than done).

IVF is a hard road for anyone to undertake but without it some of us wouldn't have the wonderful gift of a child or for the lucky ones children. With changing technology and medical discoveries the IVF road has changed a lot in 6 years and it has improved immensely thus increasing its success rates.

Good Luck Justine - no matter what you decide. If it is meant to be it will be. But think of the fantastic little package or maybe packages you might get at the end. IVF is worth it and the drugs that you need to take and the injections are very easy these days to administer. No more mixing up your own injections and using the old fashioned syringes (thank god for epi-pens).

Good Luck Again & Think Positive. You'll get there in the end!!!!!

Hi there, I'm also terrified of needles (serious phobia since I was a kid), and am starting IVF. So I bought a tube of Emla cream from my pharmacy, which is a topical anesthetic. It's expensive ($20 for 2 single use patches, or $20 for a tiny 5g tube or $80 for a big tube). It'll numb the site when I start daily injections in my tummy (which DP is doing for me b/c I just can't cope). I'll also use it when I have the egg pick-up and the anesthetist puts a drip into my hand. So my fear of pain from needles will be lessened at least, and the rest I'll just have to get used to over time. Good luck

Hi There, My husband and I were told we were not able to conceive naturally. Therefore we started looking into the IVF process. Fortunately it worked first time round for us and we got a beautiful daughter who is now 3. We have just done our second IVF and again this was successfull first time round and am now 13 weeks pregnant. Its all worth while in the end. I do admit when you are looking into it and read the fine details it looks and sounds very scarey. Then on top of that you have all the people around you telling you all the bad stories that happened to them. Once we did the procedure I actually looked back and said to my husband what was i worrying about, this was nothing. Yes of course you have the injections everyday for about 10 days or so, but the needle is like a diabetic needle, they are soo thin and after the first injection or so, you dont even feel it going in. My advice to you is to do what you feel comfortable with, before you can go ahead with the IVF you need to get your mind in order to feel 100% completely confident that this will work and try not to stress. I know easily said than done, but also, you are not alone, soo many people are going through this process and try also to not think about the negatives but to reinforce the positives, this is something you will do start to finish about a month then look at the lifetime of happiness it has brought you.
Good Luck with your decision I wish you all the best.

Sarah P.

Basically, which fear is stronger- the fear of only ever having the one child you are lucky enough to already have, or the fear of doing IVF? It's pretty straightforward actually.

If your fear of needles and procedures or whatever is stronger than your supposed desire to have another child, then hey, it's simple, don't do IVF.

Like other posters said, you may not even need IVF- have you even been to see a fertility specialist?

Honestly, if IVF really is your last resort, and you can't 'bring yourself' to do it, then maybe you aren't really that desperate for a second child.

Hi everyone





Unfortunately it sometimes doesn't work, and it usually doesn't work first time. There are plenty of girls on this site who have had to do many many cycles. I'm not sure that having a 100% confident attitude is realistic, and the pressure to maintain that attitude actually becomes an extra burden. I am learning that sometimes its better to acknowledge one's real emotions whether they be hopeful or dispairing (and believe me they shift minute to minute) rather than try to be 100% upbeat all the time.

Just another POV

Just wanted to agree with meggie on this one- we don't need more pressure to keep up our positive attitudes. Sometimes, if not most of the time, this is nigh-on impossible. Of course it's easy for 'experts' to bandy about these glib little catch phrases. Deeply irritating to someone who is in the fog of yet another failed cycle.

Hi there,

I met my husband later in life and we tried very hard for 2 years to have a bub (clomid, acupuncture for both of us, diet and lifestyle changes etc) and despite everything were not successful. One night I went out to dinner with a Uni friend and he and his wife were going through IVF. That night his wife managed to help me overcome my fears. I hate needles, I hate putting unnecessary drugs in my body and was DREADING and very AFRAID of IVF. The next week I called my gyno and made an appointment to go and see one of the doctors at IVF. It was the best thing we ever did. Yes, there were lots of blood tests and ultrasounds and early mornings before work for tests and needles at home - at least I was administering these myself though so I could control it a bit. However, we conceived on our first frozen cycle - have a beautiful baby girl who is almost 2..... and we still have a couple of frozen embryos which we intend to go back and give a chance at living to (we have to - they are our kids!). My story is a little different to yours in that we are now pregnant again, but this time naturally.... I am concerned as we still want to go back for our frozen embryos and I'm turning 40 this month!

I had built "IVF" up into something in my head, I thought of it as the last resort - and you know what, once I got over it and just accepted that that it was the path we needed to go down to achieve the family we wanted, it was OK. For me it was working up to acceptance which I found to be the difficult part. Once we'd made the decision the process took over. I'm really glad I did it - my life has not been the same since - its a lot more chaotic but so much more fun and full of laughter and love.

Wishing you all the best whichever way you decide to go.

Totally agree. In fact I find it rather ridiculous that someone will consider not doing IVF because of some needles. I think it is actually an excuse to justify the underlying fear of having another child.


I think that going into IVF being 100% confident that it will work would actually make the whole process so much more emotionally difficult than it has to be. It is terrible advice- setting the person up for overwhelming shock and despair with no ability or preparation to cope or understand the 75% chance that it wont succeed.

Go into Assisted Conception leading to IVF armed with as much knowledge and understanding of the process, its costs, finacially, physically and emotionally as is possible.That is the best way to "cope".

Websites like EB and Assisted conception forums are invaluable in helping a person cope and prepare for something that can be the biggest rollercoaster they may ever embark.

But to go in with the "fairy tale" belief that "all s good now because IVF solves everything and is guaranteed to work" is a recipe for disaster

My SIL went to the counsellors at her IVF clinic to help her with her needle phobia and fear of medical procedures. It helped her and she coped with several rounds of IVF.

Now she needs to get her head around her fear of childbirth...

You've been through childbirth and IVF for me was a blip on the radar compared to childbirth.

Hi Kd,

IVF can be hard I hated needles and still do but I made up my mind that it was a means to an end and if it meant I had a baby it was worth it. My husband was also involved he gave me the injections every night and I only had to do a few myself. Our second attempt at IVF we fell pregnant with our first daughter she in now 41/2, my third IVF attempt we did not fall pregnant so I started acupunture and chinese herbs. We fell pregnant but our second daughter was born sleeping she did not make it into our lives. Our third daughter is now 4 weeks old and a real blessing and we love her to death. I think the chinese medicine and positive thinking helped us a lot.
We also dont know why we cannot fall pregnant and carry naturally. We have had 2 natural pregnancies but niether got beyond 12 weeks. With IVF we were able to fall pregnant and when it worked it worked.

I wish you the best of luck, get all the facts and talk to as many people as you can. It is hard but if it means a beautiful child just do it.

Jo O

I've had a needle phobia (fainting, panic attacks) since I was a teenager. but as PP said, decided my fear of needles was waaaaaay less than my fear of never having a child. So when we worked through every other option and only IVF was left, I just sucked it up.

As for going into it 100% confident that you will succeed - given success rates for IVF are around 30%, that's 70% worth of pain and disappointment you are setting yourself up for. Be realistic about your chances of success, that will serve you much better.

Good suggestion librablonde, thanks!

Hi there. *hugs* Also another person who has a fear of needles! After my first m/c where I had different needles for about 30 days straight and a canular in my arm for about 20 days while in hospital the whole time, it helped me get over it. A bit.

I was so nervous to give myself the first needle. I panicked. I could not breathe properly and felt dizzy. I nearly talked myself out of it. Started putting everything away beacuse I did not want to do it, then this courage passed over me. I thought "stuff it! I can do this". I did not give myself time to think about it and just injected. I thought "hey, that was not that bad" and I was fine after that. Do not get me wrong, you get over the needles, but in the scheme of things, it is nothing.

Then I was having a panic attack about my Egg Pick Up (EPU). My FS prefers his patients to stay awake and just give them pain relief in the vein. I was fully aware of everything happening which I thought would be so scary. But it was an incredible experience. With the scientist counting the eggs and my FS talking to me the whole way through. DH was there holding my hand. Half way through a nurse and I were even making jokes about getting certain handbags from our DH's.

Unfortunately I did not fall pregnant that cycle and have to start again. But I do not have children yet and am willing to try anything. I did not have a 'positive' attitude as I have lost 5 babies and did not want to set myself up for failure and heartache. It hurts enough even when you are not positive let alone when you are. I just think you should feel whatever comes naturally. If you want to be positive. Then do it. If you want to feel sad, then feel sad. You can always be positive tomorrow (said by Dr Bailey on Grey's Anatomy!)

I wish you lots of luck. I know you will be able to do this. If I can, anyone can!

I totally agree with Daisy Goats comments.




I also disagree with in certain ways - I think it is important to hear stories where it has taken time or where the level of success varied because it makes you more aware that everyone is no successful straight away and sometimes not at all. It has potential to ensure that you don't spiral emotionally down to a point that is hard to recover from. But also develop your own mental attitude to remain positive.

Justine,
I feel for your situation, not having been able to fall pregnant naturally at any occasion. We have a gorgeous 3 year old son due to IVF and are now 15 weeks pregnant with our 2nd - also due to IVF.

It is hard, it is emotional and it is expensive... BUT... It is so worth it... If you want it bad enough, there should be no fear, only hope. You were born strong - simply by being a woman. You are already a mum, so that makes you even stronger! Fear not, go forth... I do stress using Sydney IVF rather than other IVF clinics - they produce success.

Good luck and all the best in your future as your family expands!

IVF has come a long way in recent times and is not as bad as it used to be. I have completed one round of IVF and quite frankly it was a non event. The first drug is a nasal spray and you take this the longest. The injections only last about 10 days and it is in a pen format. I must admit the first jab was the hardest but you barely feel it, nothing like an immunisation. I have no recollection of retrieval which I thankfully slept through, give a working mum a sedative and what do you expect :-). I was a bit sore after the retrieval but nothing serious and putting the embryo back was less invasive than a pap smear. Most patients then get Crinone Gel to support the luteal phase which is like a thrush treatment ie no needles. A friend who did IVF and came back 18 months later for number two said she was amazed at the differences and how much less invasive it was. Also the only sympton from the meds was tiredness. It is only 10 days of your life if you are lucky enough to hit the jackpot of a BFP.

Whatever you decide I wish you luck. If we are not pregnant this cycle we will be back for Round 2 in the next couple of weeks. After Round 1, I am no longer fearful of IVF :-).

Great comments Ren, thanks. And good luck!!

Just adding, that depending on the doc, instead of a nasal spray you may be put on injections (lucrin) like I was and to be open to that. I was on it for about 3 weeks all up.

Hi!
I wanted to discuss the other option - the "not having IVF" one...15 years ago I had difficulty conceiving with my first son but finally conceived after 2 years with "assisted reproduction techniques" (ie profasi and clomid, not actually IVF). I am quite needle phobic because I have a tendency to faint (very embarrassing when you are a medico! No problems giving them though ) But if I had not conceived at that point, I am sure I would have overcome my fears and moved on to IVF. However 3 years later and 18 months worth of failed treatment, we were again faced with the advice that IVF was our only option. I was still very frightened of the needles, even with (perhaps because of?) my medical knowledge. We opted to pursue adoption instead. Definitely not just because of the medical interventions side of it, (we also felt that we didn't need to have a genetic link to our child, we liked the fact that adoption guaranteed a child at the end of the process, which of course IVF can not...and I hated the effects the hormones had on my emotional state) but I think if I had been keen to go with IVF my husband would have been happy with either option.
We have, however, been so happy with the choice of adoption over IVF, and our second son is a wonderful blessing to our family. Adoption is a different way of forming a family, and not for everyone, but I have never regretted not pursuing IVF (though perhaps it is easy to say because we already had one biological child...)
By the way, I have managed to "get over" my needle phobia to some degree (as one earlier person wrote - childbirth makes everything else look easy!) though I still lie down to receive all my tests etc (it's harder to faint from there!) I just wanted to say that if you choose NOT to go with IVF - whether because of needle fears or other reasons, it can still be the right decision, because it is YOUR decision.

Dr DC: do you mind if I ask what sort of adoption you persued? eg overseas, foster care or local? I ask just because the few people I know who have persued adoption of various types have not been sucessful and I wonder how accurate your comment that "adoption guarrantees you a baby at the end" is?

"sqawk" we went with international adoption - and yes you are right, not everyone who is interested in adoption will end up with a baby; BUT if you fit the age, marriage, infertility (and, sadly, money!) criteria, AND a manage to convince a social worker that you are not mad (a hard ask, given how crazy all this baby-chasing can make one) then yes, at the end of the day it is a process you go through, which can take an agonising amount of time (5 years in our case) but you do end up with a child.
We weighed that against 20% numbers quoted to us at the time for IVF, and the physical effects of medical interventions that I knew I struggled with, and decided that adoption was right for us.
By the way, I do think that those initial "introduction to adoption' sessions each state holds (and I have been to 3 because we started in NSW before the 1st child and moved twice before we actually adopted!) are designed to weed people out of the process...a very negative picture is painted of how hard it all is, and I think many people who would make wonderful adoptive parents are simply too defeated by the humiliation of it all to hang on to their hopes.
Just my 2c worth.
OP hang in there. I hope there is a wonderful way through all this for you.

Although I haven't yet had my child (24 weeks done and counting), I see myself as a successful IVF patient. We were lucky - 2nd full cycle attempt worked, although no frozen embryos on either occasion.

I think this post has a lot of the pros and cons that you need to consider when you go down this path, and at the end of the day it will come down to your situation and what's most important for you. I will share some of my own experiences though, perhaps to put your mind at ease in case you do decided to go with IVF.

I have to say, I feel like I'm a bit of an ambassador. At least from the perspective of it being an extremely positive experience for me, even after my first attempt that wasn't a success.

Yes, you feel the drugs in your system during your cycle, and if you're like me at all, it's not an entirely natural feeling and one you look forward to ending. But that's all it was - a feeling that I had chemicals in my system. I had very little emotional impact - directly from the drugs I mean - the biggest thing I felt I had to deal with was the disappointment when we had no embryos to freeze or when the first cycle was not a success. But these were similar to the feelings I had when I was trying naturally.

The nasal spray gave me headaches and made me tired, but you cope. Actually the second time around we did a short cycle, and avoided the nasal spray altogether. Instead we had the additional needles.

As for the needles, one of the scariest things before I started, well this ended up being completely harmless. I laughed the first time I finally stabbed myself (I think I just stood there for 15 mins contemplating it before I went for it). Didn't hurt one bit. Slight bruised by the end of the cycle, but not even the bruises hurt. Quite wonderful technology really.

The other daunting thing was facing the egg collection. First time around I nearly vomited out of fear the whole way to the hospital. But given they knock you out these days, the worst part is the slight cramping you get for a day or so afterwards, a bit like period pains. The second time around I was singing to the radio on the way to the hospital, laughingly thinking of the time before. I'm not saying it's fun, but it's not quite as bad as one imagines when doing the pre-reading. Uncomfortable at most. In fact "nuding up" in front of the nurses was the worst bit.

As for the transfer, it's over in 2 mins (I was a bit disappointed really) a pap smear is more painful. Didn't feel a thing.

Of course it helps to have a good doctor and support staff who you can trust and who end up becoming your friends. I can't praise my doc (Gavin Sacks - IVF Australia) enough. Nor his staff - from the nurses you see every 2 days, right down to his assistant who greets you with a smile and a chat every time you walk through the door. They were a wonderful support team, very encouraging throughout the whole process.

And once you become pregnant, if it all works out, well it just all fades away. It's true, you feel a little bit like you have a more special bundle, but overtime you become just another person having a baby and any IVF memories fade into the background.

We have a well defined problem that means IVF (ICSI) is the most obvious option for us. Our tests isolated a morphology problem with my husband, something that wasn't picked up in general screening for the year prior to starting IVF tests (his sperm count was normal). So for us it's the path forward. In a way we're lucky because we can point to a very specific problem and modern science has been proven to help. And I'm not afraid in the least of the fact that I will be going back down the IVF path sometime again late next year.

For you it might not be the case, but the only way to know is to start the process yourself, and to at least do the fertility screening tests. In my opinion it's best to do these through an IVF clinic of choice, simply because if they do isolate a problem and you decided to progress with IVF, then you're halfway there and you won't have to re-do any tests or re-orient yourself with a new doctor. Once you do decide to move with IVF, you might find (as I did) that you really want to get things moving asap, and this is possibly the best way to start.

Hope this has been of help. It's daunting I know, but can really pay off if it's the right path for you.

P.S I had pretty severe digestion issues before starting IVF, something that a top gastroenterologist couldn't solve. At the end of the day we knew it was all hormonal, but docs (including my GP) seem afraid of hormones and I guess their lack in knowledge in how to deal with imbalances. Anyway, IVF has completely cleared up my issues. From the very first day after I started my needles, 2 years of pain and misery just disappeared.