Hi Juggler

I agree with your comment that you are having a baby and not a birth, and I also understand that you had 2 C/S based on medical requirements from your OB. However, Not Posh is using her sister's problem to decide that she is going to have the same problem so she had better have a C/S to avoid it. I am wondering if this girl is not a teenager to come to a decision like that. It is a bit like - "My sister had a car accident so I will walk every where I go" or "my sister choked on a chicken bone so I won't eat chicken".

I feel from the letter she wrote that she is making excuses to hide the real reasons why she doesn't want a VB.

If she was honest with herself from the outset she wouldn't need to worry about what others say.

Cheers

I have had one c-section and two natural births. I believe it is totally up to the mother what she decides as after all it's your body. I was very lucky and had 2 very straight forward natural births but some are not as lucky and can run into complications with a vbac.

For me I had a great need to experience a natural birth but I have many friends who have had several c-sections and have said they have not felt that way at all. I do however have 1 friend who had 3 c-sections and only now 1 year after her youngest is 1 she regrets not trying a vbac.

I wouldn't soley decide on another c-section due to pelvic floor problems as this is not the norm for most vbacs.

Hi!

I had an emergency ceasar 6 months ago and I was so releived when they said it would be a ceasar! ) I'll be having an elective next time round too. I experienced labour and all that does is give you something extra to talk about at mothers group - it hasn't changed me as a person, I don't feel more of a woman bla bla.

I bonded well with my baby and loved him straight away. You should tell your friends to support you and keep negative thoughts to themselves. Maybe also you should just not talk about the birth. Let them assume you are doing it whatever way they think is normal, then suprise them with a text saying baby is here, oh I had a ceasarian.

good luck!

LOL. I haven't admitted it to anyone yet but that's exactly how I feel.

So having a baby by C/S is not 'giving birth'? -----Please tell us what it is then?

OP--You have made one huge mistake and that is not choosing to have an elective C/S, the mistake is entering the lion's den called EB and telling people that is what you want.

If you want an elective C/S and you have an Obstetrician who has discussed the pros and cons of such and you still want one then that is all you require.
You do not need to be given the all clear by ANYONE, particularly those who write a 1000 word discussion why you shouldn't have one but end their 'advice' with "But it's your body, so do what you want" and be told " For goodness sake, empower yourself" nice one 'Declan's mum' The OP IS empowering herself by making a decision, it may not be the one you'd make however it is not going to impact you---is it?

OP , sure VB is the safer option, we all know that but having a C/S these days is also much safer than previous decades. Statistics will show that the greater majority of C/S births result in a healthy baby and a healthy mum-----much like VB.

Yes things go wrong, but not often and C/S SAVES very many more babies than it harms.
I can also reassure you that whilst the first 24 hours you will be sore and a little groggy , so will many mums who have had a long and traumatic vaginal birth and by day 3 if I lined up half a dozen mums, you would never know those who had C/S or those who have had a VB.

These days, as long as you and your baby are healthy the baby may go straight to the breast in recovery room, you do not have to be separated from them---just let the staff know your preferance. Mums who have C/S these days--particularly if it is an elective one do not seem to have any issues bonding and breast feeding their babies. A long labour then C/S or a long traumatic V/B MAY have result in some initial problems though.

Anyway OP, I hope that whatever you have decided is right for you, is what you achieve. I have no doubt that you will continue to meet with more people questioning your choice and I also have no doubt that you know that VB is the most natural and safe option---- ---IF you are physically and psychologically prepared for it.

Take care-have a lovely birth and my advice is if you feel you have asked all the questions you need to ask and you have been given all the information you required then DON'T TELL ANYONE ELSE.

Good luck with whatever YOU choose. It's no one else's business but yours and your partner's. What other people think or tell you is of no consequence.
You will find the people who criticise you the most are the ones who scream the loudest when THEIR choices are criticised. They are the ones who promote "choice" for women, so long as that choice is the one THEY think is best.
Do what YOU feel is best, and don't mention it to anyone else. no one will ask you or your child in 20 years time about the decisions you made.
To suggest you may not bond with your baby is insulting to the many millions of women who have given birth by CS , and to those who have adopted children. They say it to scare you.

Best of luck. the birth is just the beginning.

I think a vb is so wonderful and natural. You get to hold your child straight away (in some cases) and you can walk straight after also in some cases, I believe you cant go threw life without having a vb if its possibly of course. Its something that just cant be described, you have to experience it. I don't think people should have a choice between the two. It should just be done to woman who need them.

Even if your having a CS, get moving on those pelvic floor exercises. The stats say that after 3 CS's, the weakness in the pelvic floor is that of natural birth - got that right out of my physio's mouth too

It's horrible to be condemned for something that really is nobody else's business isn't it? I used to be asked if i was having a vaginal birth by complete strangers that I'd see in the street!! As if its anyones business but mine!

I have serious back problems which would actually stop a baby from being able to enter the birth canal so had booked an elective (which turned out to be an emergency) CS. I didn't have any probs with bonding at all and he was whisked off to ICU for a couple of weeks. That had nothing to do with the CS. It was due to him being prem and them unable to stop the labour.

Be confident in your decision.

BTW, I've had a couple of back operations and others and having a CS is a walk in the park compared to those. I was on panadol by day 3.

Good luck

I've had 2 caesars, and am due another one in a few weeks. In both instances the baby was placed on my chest straight away - so don't know where you were going with that statement.

Why shouldnt people get the choice between VB or C/S ? Some people have a very real fear or VB or various other reasons why they do no wish to pursue that course.

Both my C/s experiences were truly beautiful and exactly what I imagined they would be. No surprises and everything went as I wished.

And even if I didn't need them...I would of chosen them!

No-one should have the right to take CHOICE away from anyone!

oops, steam starting to come out ears, I better go lay down

Yeah go lay down. I didn't mean they shouldn't have choice ,i just meant they should have a more informed choice. That's my opinion and that's what this site is for.
My Dh's cousin is a mid wife and says they try to avoid c/s as much as possible and they are professionals. So i just think women shouldn't wake up one day and say oh i mite have a c/s.
They should be well educated.

Apologies then, it didn't come across as what you were saying.

That's ok, I should of worded my first post better.

Can all of you "It's my body" people just get over yourselves. Face facts VB Is the NATURAL method and C/S was introduced to try and save women and babies when things went horribly wrong. The vast majority of these women and babies died also.

C/S are not procedures that you choose like a leg wax! It is major abdominal surgery and should be treated as such - the very last resort if you are in good physical health and have a prognosis of a normal Vaginal Delivery.

Not POsh knows her rights(unless she has been living under a rock!) and this clearly shows when she wrote her letter to the forum. Only a handful of people (myself included) bothered to tell this girl that there were real dangers involved and that trying the VB may not be as bad as she is led to believe. The rest of you just sat there and sprouted how it was her body and her right - how inflammatory and destructive! Don't put forward the dangers - just tell her what her rights are and wave your flags - even if everything goes wrong! I'm sure she is gong to want to hear how it was her body and her right if everything is completely clagged and her future fertility compromised.


Good luck Not Posh - I hope you have a wonderful birth and baby.

I don't care what people think of me but I will say this - I can go to bed with a clear conscience knowing that I have given an argument for and against. Can you?

How many children can you have by C/S - I bet you three is the limit. OH also - there is NO limit to the amount of children I can by VB - Yes you better lay down and think of an answer to that one!

Your original post was heartfelt and lovely - don't apologize and no you shouldn't have worded it differently - would Cathode have worded hers differently for you?

Haven't read any of the posts but I think having a C/S is something left to the experts perhaps. I was advised it would be in mine and my childs best interest to have a caesarean. After a VERY long induction and vaginal birth with my first. (3 days) and considering she was 7p 2 oz and the second was 9p 5oz and not fully engaged and looked like it my be shoulder dysplacia (sp), after scans the night before, then it was a choice left in my hands with strong views by all 3 docs for a c/s. I figured I'd go with the majority than put my baby at risk. After having one vaginal and one c/s birth I can't see what the fuss is about with bonding etc etc. What a load of sh*t!!! Made no difference to me personally.

So what if there is a limit (3-4 btw)? does that really matter? only if the person wants to breed their own nation, probably, but the vast majority of people tend to have under 3 children.

And as to the references between WW and myself ... we worked out our diff ... maybe time to pull the stick out of your ....

Womb warrior didn't have the difference - you forced her to become defensive (a bit like I am right now!!) and feel what she had written was wrong - I think you are wrong - wrong for bullying her because of her beautiful birthing story, perhaps she made you sit up and think that just maybe YOU might have made the wrong decision and that you may just have missed out on a great experience!, and as for the "stick" - I am happy to extract it but I know exactly where I would put it!

I don't care if you completely wreck your body - go for it - but don't make others doubt their feelings or devalue their experiences - if you have something of value to add - by all means add it but don't bully - it is not becoming of ladies - or even you.

I don't know what post you are reading luv, but at no time did I (or would I) EVER demean someones birth experience! (ironic really as that is what you are doing to me right now).
My "bullying her" was over this statement ... "I don't think people should have a choice between the two." which I took to read as that women should have no choice. She explained it wasn't, I apologised ... so where is the F-ing problem?
~shakes head~

Right back at you!
I don't care if you completely wreck your body - go for it - but don't make others doubt their feelings or devalue their experiences - if you have something of value to add - by all means add it but don't bully - it is not becoming of ladies - or even you.

Once again, I NEVER devalued her experience, or even mentioned it.

It is obvious that you are just itching for a fight ....
So, have fun ... you are just making yourself look like an ass

Are you saying that everyone that has a Caesarean 'wreck's their body'? If you are, then I take offence to that. Please keep in mind that there are a lot of us that didn't have a choice. It meant a live baby or a dead baby. Don't make me feel like I'm a criminal for wanting to keep my child alive.

And I second the whole 'bonding can't be done with a caesar' is complete crap. I bonded with DS perfectly well. I might not have liked him so much though if he tore my hoo ha to bits tho!

OMG this makes me so angry .

If you want a c section then go ahead and have one. Who the hell cares what your judgemental friends think. Do whatever you think is right for you and your baby and tell anyone that tells you otherwise that if you want there opinion then you will ask and until you do so then kindly keep it to yourself.

I hope you make the decision this you feel is best for you.


OMG this makes me so angry .

If you want a c section then go ahead and have one. Who the hell cares what your judgemental friends think. Do whatever you think is right for you and your baby and tell anyone that tells you otherwise that if you want there opinion then you will ask and until you do so then kindly keep it to yourself.

I hope you make the decision this you feel is best for you.

I am sorry can you explain why I am about to have my fourth c section in five years?????????????????????? My OB also told me I can continue to have as many as I like so I am not sure where you get your facts but you should check them before you post a response.

Fourth CS in five years??? You have been a busy girl!!

So true!!!!

Oh, and a dear friend of mines had 4 bambinos by c/s. And I'm sure she will be having another in the future.

Oh, how opiniated some people are.

That's right keep on yelling! Your words are like water off a duck's back to me - you are looking more and more the twit you sound like in your letter to WW. Always remember empty vessels make the most noise and I can hear you from Qld!

To reply to your letter to me I have copied and pasted the response from the wikipedia and their answer quotes from Pregnancy health and safety - oh gee - I'm glad I checked my facts C/S's are looking worse by the minute!!!!!

<h1 style="margin: 0pt; padding: 1px 10px;">How many children is it safe to have by c-section?</h1> In: Pregnancy Health and Safety, Labor and Birth [Edit categories] <script type="text/javascript"> capitalOneround('alternateMsg'); $('disclaimerLink').innerHTML = 'user-generated content:'+ ' report abuse'; Pregancy Termination
by women doctors in Coffs Harbour clinic
www.BluewaterMedical.com.au There are no hard and fast rules. In theory, a women should be able to have as many children by cesarian as she wants. In reality, it all comes down to how well a woman's body heals.

UTERUS: for some women, the uterus heals with a thick lower segment. In this case, many sections are possible. For others, the lower segment becomes very thin and attenuated. In such cases, labor/contractions should be avoided because of risk of rupture of the uterus. Keep in mind that a very thin uterus can rupture even before labor begins. Doctors will sometimes counsel women to avoid future pregnancy if the lower segment becomes too thin.

SCARRING: Another consideration is the amount of scarring within the abdominal cavity. Whenever any surgery is performed in the abdomen, raw surfaces are left behind and adhesions (things stuck to other things) can form. This is very individual. In some patients, they can have multiple abdominal surgeries with almost no adhesion; in others, they can have huge numbers of adhesions, involving uterus, omentum, bowel and bladder. In the second case, surgery (including cesarian section) becomes very difficult and there is a risk of bowel perforation and damage to other organs.

PLACENTA: The more cesarean sections a woman has, the more likely it is that the placenta may implant in the uterine scar. If it does so, it will not develop properly, but will grow into the uterine muscle and not just the endometrium. Such a placenta is called an accreta (part way through) or percreta (all the way through), and will not separate properly from the uterus after the baby is delivered. In many cases, especially with a deep accreta or percreta, a hysterectomy is necessary (because removing the placenta is not possible without causing massive bleeding and potential maternal mortality).

She's pregnant you nuff nuff.

Her body is already f*cked.

Please read my letter. I don't make anyone feel anything. If you are feeling like a criminal then that is your problem not mine. Having said that I applaud your courage because it sounds like you were in a very difficult state when the decision was made for your C/S and I truly and glad that your baby came into this world perfect and safe. I also third the crap about the bonding thing. Bonding comes from the holding and the eye contact and the love that is sent from skin to skin and soul to soul from mother to baby(and fathers too - just in case any one got offended by that statement!)
I am not against C/S. They perform a necessary function in
saving women and their babies who are in difficulty whilst trying to birth and can be invaluable in preventing dangerous situations to expectant mothers who may have pelvises that are too small or other medical issues. What people are missing is the point of fact which is (and I repeat) this is major surgery. C/Sections have a cap in each state - I think in Qld it cannot exceed 22% of deliveries - this is because of the dangers the surgery carries, the increased hospitalization and the increase risk of infections and post operative trauma. I am NOT saying that this has happened to you or to anyone on this post. However you have to admit that this whole C/Section issue has been trivialized to the point where it has been made out be treated like something you just pop in and have - a bit like a leg wax.

Did you know that big girls run a high risk of major complications if given a C/Section? I know this because my Ob came to me when I was in labour with my fourth child( I have five now and am well on my way to my own small country - (thank you oh great all-knowledge and attitude "Cathode")) and said straight out that a C/Section is the absolute last option he would offer due the increased complications by way of heart, breathing and blood pressure - not to mention stroke. Now , even though I am a big girl, I am in perfect physical health - my baby was just being obstinate at the time of delivery.

Please stop misinterpreting my words becaue if you read my original letter properly you will see that I did not knock C/Sections - I merely asked NP to reevaluate her pathetic reasons for having one and highlighted just some of the dangers of having major surgery. Also if you want to know about the dangers of repeated surgeries (and by that I mean C/Sections) please check out pceh, I posted a very informative response to her letter to me.
Oh by the way I am sure everyone is very happy that your HooHa is still in a happy state.

Cheers

lol.
ah, you are a newbie then ... yelling is when you do THIS AND WRITE IN CAPS...

bolding is just when you want to highlight the hipocrasy of what someone has said

Oh I forgot about that!

I haven't heard nuff nuff for ages. You made me laugh - thanks.

Cheers

Yep, still not seeing where it says a woman is limited to 3 caesars ... lord woman, if you are going to quote an article or website, at least read it first !

You, my dear, are a big F-ing hippocrite.

Why don't YOU read what people have actually written and stop jumping to conclusions and being so damn nasty to those who have had C/s - whatever the reasons they had to or chose to have them.

And as for one of your previous posts regarding how you so valiantly have posted the pros and cons of VB vs C/s ... why don't you actually do that and post the cons of VB (not just the pros) and the pros of C/s (not just the cons)...

This is exactly what I would expect from you - however after reading about the placenta and the scarring adhesions , not to mention the possiblity of thinning of the uterus- I am sure that, in your infinite wisdom Cathode, you would you want to go forward after 3 - I mean please ! You are really starting to make me lol. I am starting to enjoy this.

Speak for yourselves ladies, my body is exactly the same ( even breast size after weaning at 15 3/4months)
I'm just 3 kgs heavier
.

I am sure I can hear Boo Hoo behind your words. Give me a break! Sticks and stones baby. I have not been nasty to anyone - except you are sport to me. Please stop typing your hole is getting bigger and bigger and bigger.......

lol. that is like the equivalent of "I know you are but what am I?"

I would say that you arent even making sense anymore, but that would assume that you did in the first place

Well done to you girlie!

Actually, from what you have posted, it sounds like yours is

Go away - your are painful.

Ok ladies - back in your corners.

Hah. Perfect and safe was the least of it. Not that it had anything to do with the c-section. More the fact that he was a premmie. It may be my problem that I feel bad but how else am I meant to feel when I'm constantly reprimanded over having a cs when nobody even knows my story. I get given the title of 'too posh to push' by complete strangers. I don't tell others how stupid they are to have a vb so why should they treat me any different.



DS was taken to NICU by ambulance in a completely different hospital and I saw him for 5 mins. I couldn't see him the next day but the day after I told them I was going. I wasn't able to hold him for a week and he was on a ventilator. I just got to hold his hand for a few hours a day while he slept. Anyone would think that maybe that could cause bonding issues but no. It didn't. I was so ready to hold DS by day 7 that I appreciated every little second I did get to hold him. And after a few sideways glances he decided I was his mum as soon as I started talking to him and settled immediately.



maybe so but it was still a piece of p*ss to recover from compared to my 2 spinal ops. So i didn't see it as that major on my scale at all. I already knew that this was how the only way was that I could have children from age 13 due to my spinal condition. I've taken a long time to get used to that I guess so its never really bothered me.



Maybe to some but not a lot of people I know see it like that. I think sometimes its more the doctor that trivializes it by changing the date to suit themselves - eg. so he could go on holidays on time as my friends OB did.



No i didn't - I'm not a big person so its never been mentioned. But doesn't any procedure or operation come with extra risk if you are overweight?



But you don't know her whole story so how do you know its really that pathetic. I always knew I'd have to have a CS. But if I didn't, I would still choose one due to my history of abuse and severe scarring/gynae issues. May be TMI, but why the hell would I want to birth a child through there if it gets torn to shreds during sex? You must be kidding me.. I'd rather keep what remainder I have of it partially working.



I could probably guarantee you that yours is in a much better state than mine after your vb's. I'm just glad that it wasn't made worse through childbirth.

Pro's and Con's of Caesarean Birth

"Cesarean sections can also significantly benefit the baby, as vaginal deliveries are said to carry a greater risk for fetal stress and injury, including intrapartum death and acquired hypoxic ischemic encephalopathy—brain damage caused by a decreased oxygen flow. Infants delivered by c-section also look more "normal" than those delivered vaginally, which some mothers greatly desire. Vaginal babies often have misshapen, pointy heads and a purplish skin tone. Cesarean babies typically do not."
"Cesareans can also be harmful to the baby. If the procedure is scheduled (does not follow the onset of normal labor) and the due date calculated incorrectly, the infant could be born prematurely. It's also always possible that the surgeon may accidentally nick the baby when making the incision."
FULL ARTICLE

WIKIPEDIA

Pro's and Con's of Vaginal Birth

"5 Complications of birth - 5.1 Labor complications 5.2 Maternal complications 5.3 Fetal complications
5.3.1 Mechanical fetal injury 5.3.2 Neonatal infection 5.3.3 Neonatal death 5.3.4 Intrapartum asphyxia"
all of those in more detail at the full article.

FULL PAGE HERE

I wasnt able to find any specific pages/articles on the pro's of VB...but am assuming that enough mothers are aware of what they are - and have indeed posted them here on the earlier pages

I have to be truthful here ... my leg/snatch waxing hurts way worse than either of my caesars did, seriously.

Thank you for taking the time to read my letter. I hope you can see that I am not denegrating C/S - take you for example - you could not have children if it wasn't for C/S. Also, the fact that you carried your baby when you had a spinal injury - I do not think I could even utter the term "too precious to push" when it comes to you.One of my best friends had 2 c/s but when I discussed the issue with her and she read the posts - she understood exactly where I was coming from. This is not a competition of which is the big winner. This whole topic was started by a girl who has fears (according to her letter - and that is all we can go by), and rather than address her fears, she hides behind her sister's problems and an operation. That is what I was trying to show her. NP was choosing to take people's opinions on board as an attack on her personally when they were probably genuinely concerned as to why she would come to that decision.

My niece had her first baby by C/S and then her next 3 (yes another small nation on the way Cathode)by VB and stated categorically that she would have a hundred VB's over a C/S anyday.

I tell you Risa -if my OB came to me and said that I had to have a C/Section then so be it - I'm there, but I could not just choose one for the hell of it or because VB was going to hurt a bit. If there is no pain there is no gain(although I do know a lot of girlies who do like the old epidural, in fact my other niece described it as turning birth into a beautiful afternoon activity).

It has been a pleasure talking with you on this post. I hope we meet up on another one soon.

Cheers and I hope your back is okay so you can give your little man a brother or sister!

Jen

Thangewveraymarsh! (you need to use an Elvis drawl)

Finally - a sense of humour!!!! Good to see. I love the "snatch wax" Maybe they should introduce epidurals for waxes. Imagine the line up!

Thanks for the laugh!!!! I needed one today after my 17mth old is cutting molars or something etc etc. The whole birthing process seems to fade into insignificance when it comes to teething LOL!

Anyhow I love the "NUFF NUFF" and the fact that you trully tell it how it is.

Thanks again.
Rach.x

I totaly agree, I have had 5 natural births all drug free and due to have number six soon and i am no hero needels and op rooms scare the hell out of me, i have never had any op's and hate hospitals, those who choose c/s births are the hero's in my eye's as there is a longer recovery time then v/b you are still a mum no matter what way you choose to give birth it is your body and only you know what is best for the both of you, both options have risk's, all the best and enjoy you new baby.