Hi guys-

Just thought I would ask you all for some help for two things..

1- D is fully breast fed- K at the moment is having 1-2 breastfeeds (mainly overnight) 1-2 EMB bottles and 1-2 formula bottles- This came about as my father passed away on Anzac day and with trying to get things done and needing to be away from the boys my supply dropped- I tried maxalon- but didnt have time to pump- any ideas on getting supply back? can I get it back enough for the two of them?


2- My boys are soooooooooooooooooooo eratic- they feed all over the place- sometimes 3hr sometimes 4 and Kale even sometimes 2- how can I get them more insync- preferably I would like to feed one baby, nappy change wrap etc then have the other baby done- my problem is you can be sure the little buggers will wake at the same time or one will be half way through a feed- and there is noooooooooooooooo waiting- they will SCREAM the house down..or they sleep past there feed time.. I just need to get some form of routine as I am struggeling and the fact they are so erratic is really not helping.. D will do a 7 hr strech overnight and K usually a 5-6hr-

Ideas on the above would be greatly appreciated as I just am not coping very well at the moment with 3 under 2 and also coming to terms with loosing my dad-

oh sweetheart firstly i'm really sorry for the loss of your father, mine passed away before our babies came but the pain is still there.

1. i have no idea sorry hun - have you tried ABA? i know motillum is meant to help, as is fenugreek and blessed thistle as well as rest (i know - i hear you laughing already) - hopefully one of the other girls will have some answers.

2. routine wise - i used to wake our girls at the same time to fed them, if you don't feel comfortable tandem feeding them have you tried a dummy? i know in the early days that was a saviour for me (as well as a vibrating bouncer) though thankfully my girls were fast drinkers - i know it's different but DD3 feds are exactly the same, completely all over the shop and it's driving me completely insane - i just get her into a routine then she goes and does what she has done tonight (basically fed from 12.30 until now).

i really feel for you - we were lucky that the girls fell into a routine from day one (i woke them at the same time in hospital) and we didn't have the extra stressors you are facing atm - is there anyone that can help lighten the load right now? i'm sorry i don't have anything more constructive cause we didn't have any other kidlets when our twins came along and have the reverse problem to you - i hope someone has some answers for you.

I'm so sorry about the loss of your father, Fringe

Firstly routine: I've always fed to certain times, whether or not they've been awake (that has been my only way of coping, as if not, due to the size difference in mine, we'd be all over the shop...)

ATM we do 4-hourly on the clock (it has been 3 hourly and 3 and a half hourly). Often 1 or the other is asleep, so I feed the one who is more awake first, then wake and feed the other. I've always found this helpful, as they then don't get hungry-upset and so when they cry I can look for other triggers first.

So mine feed at 7am, 11am, 3pm, 7pm, 11pm, then on demand till 7am (R usually sleeps through... not tonight but thats another post)

ATM they get really unsettled between 5.30pm and 7pm so I'm considering changing the routine to see if an extra feed there helps (eg 7am 11am 2.30pm 5pm 7.30pm 11pm) so thats the downside of what I do re routine... its always subject to change according to their needs...

Anyway once you get into a routine, you'll be able to express more (I'm assuming you must express because you're offering EBM?) because you can be certain they should last a certain length of time between feeds iykwim. I've always been informed that the middle of the night is the best time (sorry) because when you sleep is when your body produces prolactin. So to increase supply:

express till your boobs are empty

feed or express at least 6x daily (till boobs empty)

express in the middle of the night

try motillium

fenugreek also helped me

All the best!

Niss x

Sorry about the loss of your father

About your supply. Your boys are 2 months old. I found this time the hardest when i was feeding. I don't see why you can't get your supply back but it will take hard work. I would stop doing pretty much anything else but feeding the boys for the next few days. I would also demand feed them (only over the next few days) trying to build supply. I would put each on the breast and then top up with bottle if needed. If this is not possiable i would express for at least 10 mins each side every couple of hours.
Also make sure you are eating the correct foods and getting enough calories. Oats are great and have a sustagen for extra calories.
You could also tandem feed. It does take a while to get the hang of but is the best for building your supply.

Once you have your supply back i would try feeding every 4 hours (give or take an hour). I feed one and then woke the other and feed. I used a dummy, again still sometimes had one screaming down the house (or you could tandem feed).
Over night i was letting them demand feed but again if one woke i would wake and feed the other just so i wasn't up 1/2 an hour later

OT Niss - we called that time between 4-7pm witching hour. No matter what we did nothing helped. It was a bugger especially when i was on my own and had noone to help. One thing that sometimes did the trick was a bath. They grow out of it when they are about 12 months.

Hi Fringe-
I still haven't had mine, so can't really help with routine but just wanted to offer my sympathy. Give yourself some time to get supply back up and look after yourself most importantly. I am going to have 3 under 2 as well and that in itself is a major job and to do that and cope with the loss of a parent is huge. I think you are doing a great job the only thing I can think of is write down all their sleep/wake/feed times for a few days and see where you could wake one, or stretch time between feeds to make it easier. Good Luck and take care,
Rach

Hi Fringe,

Sorry to here about your father on top of coping with 8 week old twins you are doing it tough.

1. I unfortunately had to top up my girls from day one due to them being very small. Even when i came home i was expressing constantly and i could never get more than 60ml per boob and that was missing a feed if i went out. I bottle when i go out as it is so much easier. So i have always only been an entree to my girls but they don't seem to mind and i am used to it now.

2. Rylee and Haylee are 4 months on 16th May and i only have a very loose routine as no matter what i try they go back to what they want to do. I have been writing down there waking times to try and find a common thread. From about 6.30am till 6.30pm they sleep a max of 3 hours usually in 20 minute stints.

They also have a witching hour which is from 4.30 till 5.30pm as they bath at 5.30pm every night and feed at six and are usually in bed asleep by 6.30/7pm. They then sleep through to anywhere from 1-4am but once they have awaken the first time they sleep from then on for no longer than 3 hrs which can be a pain in the butt. (I have tried waking them at 10/11pm so that they sleep through but it doesn't work for us as they wake again from 1-4) When they wake at night i feed on demand and don't wake the other one unless they naturally awake as i find it disrupts us even more. During the day i feed together and seperatley and i find that it depends on the day to whether or not one will scream the house down.

Rylee is the more contented baby and will usually wait patiently if her sister is already feeding but Haylee no way god help her if you do not do what she wants NOW. I love her dearly but she trully is a tiny terror (she is my 4.5kg baby, Rylee is over 1kg heavier).

I started Rylee on solids yesterday as she definately seems ready- she is my guts. She tried apple first and it was a sight. I gave her Farax today just a teaspoon and she seemed to enjoy it so hopefully that will help in their sleeping routine. Otherwise i will just have to adapt to whatever they throw at me next.

Sorry for the rant ladies it just came out of nowhere. Sometimes it is good to vent to people who understand what you are going through.

Hi Fringe,

Sorry to hear about your Dad and your hassles at the moment. I'm not sure what help I can be, but I thought I'd share my "routine" (ha ha ha - routine so isn't the right word here!). My babies are nearly 5 months old, and my toddler just turned 2 (20 months between them).

Firstly, it took me 14 weeks to have both boys fully breastfeeding, and then another week or so to wean them off the nipple shield, so don't let anyone tell you that giving them bottles will mean you can't breastfeed or get them back on the breast. You can, it just takes a bit of extra effort1

In one month, starting when my boys were 9 weeks, I had gastro twice, the flu once and horrible headcold and sore throat, so was having MAJOR supply issues for a while. I had to completely stop feeding them the first time I had gastro as I had to have Maxalon shots and tablets, and you cannot breastfeed when taking them (which makes me think you were on Mottilum, not Maxalon, to boost your supply). At this stage I was pretty much fully expressing and bottlefeeding them EBM before I got sick - Noah had actually taken the breast for the first time ever the day I got sick - so bottles weren't an issue for me. I was lucky to have a small supply of EBM in the freezer, which the boys had during the time I was Maxalon, and they also had to have formula - which did not agree with them AT ALL, the poor little things. I ended up comping with formula every time I got sick during this month as my supply just got worse and worse each time.

I found the best way to get my supply back up every time I felt better was to pump before and after each feed, plus put the babies to the breast before they had a bottle. At this stage though, they were so crap at breastfeeding that they could be on the breast for 20-40 mintues, and still need at least 100ml EBM top-up afterwards - and I could only get Noah to attach every now and then. So say they were due for a feed at 10am, I'd express at 9-9:30, then put them to the breast at 10am, then give them a bottle and as soon as they were back asleep (about 11-11:30), I'd express again. It drove me a bit mental, but I was so determined to breastfeed that I kept going. DS1 goes to daycare 2 days a week, so these days I'd just sit on the couch with a baby on the breast and just keep swapping sides and babies.

I'm very lucky that I've always been a fantastic lactator (too good with my first - I had major issues with him as I had such an over-supply), so I was able to get my supply back up without needing any help other than plenty of pumping and stimulation when I was putting the babies to the breast and lots of warm wet flannels on the breasts when I was pumping. As the other girls have mentioned, there are different drugs and herbs you can try. Also, make sure yuou drink enough water - if I don't drink at least 4-5L a day, I notice my supply drops quite a bit. I found I drank most overnight - I'd drink at least one 600ml bottle of water before and after each night feed, as I seemed to be too busy during the day to fit it in.

Also, in terms of a routine, I've only just started to get one in the past 2-3 weeks (I lie - I had a great routine when I was bottle-feeding, but started demand-feeding when I finally got them on the breast and it all went to *&#@). My boys were feeding every 2-3 hours during the day, and would only sleep for 20-40 minutes at a time and I couldn't handle it, so I decided to get tough and only feed them 3-4 hourly. I try to only feed 4 hourly now, but if they're really hungry, I'll go down to 3 hourly, but never less than that now. Since I've been doing this, my life has improved drastically - my boys are happier, much more settled, less chucky and refulxy and they sleep for longer! I think part of our problem was I sticking them on the breast whenever I couldn't settle them, even though they were tired not hungry, so they were too full all the time, which was making them chuck more and have more wind etc. I also got a bit tougher with settling and sleeping - I don't use controlled crying as such, but I try not to pick them up once they're in their cots (I seperated them into different cots a few weeks ago as they were waking each other all the time and it's helped heaps), I don't rock or cuddle or pat them to sleep anymore and I let them have a whinge. I hate hearing them whinging, and as soon as they start crying, I go in and give their dummies and pat and shoosh them until they're calm, and then I leave again but they can now actually put themselves to sleep without much fuss at all!

If one baby is still asleep when the other has finished feeding, I wake him. I tried letting them do their own thing, but found they were more unsettled and it meant I did nothing but feed and like you, I have another child to look after as well, so couldn't just sit on the couch feeding all day long. I also wake them when they're "due" for a feed, although the other baby will always wake during the feed (my boys are spookily close and nearly always wake if the other one is taken out of the room for more than 2-3 minutes). Usually, they wake at the same time though, and so I feed one "halfway", burp him and then put him on the playmat or in the swing or rocker, and feed the other "halfway". Then I change the first baby, burp him again and finish feeding him, then change, burp and finish feeding the second baby. I've always changed them halfway through the feed (I did the same with DS1) as I have a very fast let-down so they take in a lot of air with the initial half and need at least one or two breaks and lots of burping or else they bring the whole feed back up as soon as I lie them down. For this reason, I can't tandem feed (and Noah won't attach in that position anyway).

Things are starting to get better now, and I can really see the light at the end of the tunnel now! Now, if only I can get DS1 to start sleeping through the night, I might have a shot at getting more than 3 hours sleep in a row....

Sorry it's such a rambling essay - I'm sure you understand how sleep-deprived I am and therefore how hard it is to articulate anything! I hope it makes some sense and helps a bit. Good luck!

I'm a BIG believer in getting them on the same routine as most other ladies here. My boys play at the same time, eat at the same time and sleep at the same time...generally waking within 15 minutes of each other. Admittedly it wasn't always like that but in the early weeks we would wake one when the other ate and this ensured the same routine (and my babies never say no to food either!!)

I've found it so much easier now they are on the same routine! It can be a pain in the bum putting 2 six and a half kilo babies to bed at the same time but it works!!!!

Sorry to hear about your dad Fringe

Well i have a 2.5year old DD who is high needs so i totally understand having to juggle 3 young children.

I found that i have to wake them both up if one wakes. I am really lucky that they have been sleeping through the night since they were about 4 weeks old.

My usual day at home goes something like this:
6.30-7am wake both and tandem feed
Express
Put them back to bed straight away (no play time)
They usually then sleep for 4 hours if i let them.
10.30-11am wake and feed both
Play time
11.30-12 bed
2.30pm-3pm wake and feed
30mins-1hour play depending on mood
5.30-6pm wake and feed
then the unsettled time!!! sometimes it lasts an hour other days it goes on and on for ever!
8.30-9pm wake and feed
top up with 30mls EBM, they dont need it but it has become part of the routine and they get uptight when we try to change it.

So all in all we have 5 feeds a day. if the are really unsettled in the evening they may get an extra feed cos they often get so uptight and just wont relax.

If im going out during the day i try and avoid feeding when out cos i have to feed seperatly due to not wanting to be hanging out all over the place If needed i change the feeds by 30 mins or so to be able to feed just before going out.


I have good and bad days but now the girls are in more of a routine it has helped lots cos i know when i have time to do things.

Something that they told me to do in hospital was to start a record of when they wake and feed and also when they have wet and dirty nappies and baths etc. I still do that as it helps me to know well they might be uptight cos they have not had a dirty nappy for 2 days etc

Just remember it does get better and when they start having more awake time it does change again, but it is all doable.

******MAKE TIME FOR YOU TOOO!!!*******
I have found that since having an hour or so at some time in the week to do something for me (ie craft or somthing you love doing) that my mood has been heaps better and i have been able to cope with the hard days better

Thinking of you

I'm very sorry about your father, especially at this incredibly challenging time of your life.

Most twin mums I know have their babies in a routine and it's never too early to start. It certainly helps to have the routine stuck up there on the fridge as a gentle nudge in the right direction when you have those days where everything seems out of control. What it will also do is allow you to schedule things so that you can also spend some nice time with your big baby.

At this stage with my twins i was doing the following:

6.45am feed
8.45am - 9.30am sleep
10.30am feed
11.30am - 2.00 sleep
2.15pm feed
4.15pm - 4.45pm sleep
5.45pm feed
7.00pm bed
10.00pm dreamfeed

Do plenty of reading and looking in to different routines out there - there are plenty. Granted, not all are set up for twins but the gist is still the same.

Good luck with everything - I am 9 months in to it and it is so gorgeous, they are a delight. This time will pass.