Hi All

I have 7 month old twin girls (they were 5.5 weeks premature).

They have never been very good sleepers. Up until recently, they have only slept for 45 minutes during the day and then I needed to rock them for 45 minutes to get them to their minimum 3 hour feed. I have recently changed their routine (keeping them up longer) and also now feed them solids 3 times a day. This seems to have helped their daytime sleeps and I am not doing so much rocking anymore.

Their night sleeps haven't improved at all. On a really bad night, they will need resettling every hour. But on a typical night, they will wake sometime between 3.30am and 4.30am and need to be rocked for awhile before they get back to sleep. However, they never seem to settle properly and will wake regularly after this. As a result, I don't tend to sleep after this time and am now absolutely exhausted and so is my husband. It doesn't seem to make any difference if we do a rollover feed at night or at 3.30/4.30am.

My husband and I are close to doing controlled crying with them but has anyone got any other suggestions?

Thanks.

Hi

Gosh I remember those days vivadly - so tired that you can hardly think straight. What worked best for us was getting into a sleep school, ours was only for a day but it worked the magic. Even the phone call we were able to get some excellent advice that helped straight away.

Some of the things we changed were taking them out of there wraps that they could get out of and getting them some sleeping bag PJ's, we also took away the mobiles and music from their cots and turned off their night lights, this way when they woke there was no stimulation and hopefully they would roll over and go back to sleep. We did use a bit of controlled crying but only when it was more of an anger cry rather than a ditressed cry. We also turned off the monitors as we could hear them from the other end of the house in our room when they were upset but we weren't being woken by the little whinges when they were still sound asleep.

My husband and I would also take it in turns to get up for the night and the other would get a whole nights sleep, my mum even offered to come and stay a night so we could both get some sleep - is amazing how much better you feel when you can get a nights sleep - everything did not seem as hard.

Hope you can find something that works for you soon

Kerri

My only advice would be what the PP has said. I did the controlled crying thing, and it worked for me.

Maybe giving them some mash spuds and vegies at night when u have ur tea, might bulk them up a bit so they might sleep better. Im guessing they are just hungry.

Hi Twinhunter

My girls are almost 9 months. I have used controlled crying which worked really well. You have to be tough and it is hard but our most stubborn twin responded really well. We did it when they were 6 months (they were 4 weeks early too). We still have times when they are unsettled at night - like when teeth are coming or when it started to get cold at night - the bigger girl seems to feel the cold but it took us a few nights to work it out - seems silly I know. We put her in a warmer sack and problem solved. The other thing we do is get them out, check them all over i.e. - nappy, temp etc and put our minds at ease that they are fine. Sometimes that seems to break their cycle of crying.

I know many people don't like controlled crying but with twins I find that I have to try lots of things that I wouldn't ordinarily do and didn't do with my singleton. I'm no good to my girls if I can't function and lose my patience because I don't get enough sleep. I figured that controlled crying was the lesser of two evils really.

Good luck and I hope that you are able to find a way to resolve it.

Hi, have you tried snuggling them in together at all? That worked with my girls right up until they could get out of their wraps and climb on each other.

I would definatley let them cry, but not to the point where they are hysterical.

My twins were 34 weekers and I was fortunate in that they came home from SCN in a routine that worked for them re: sleep.

However, when I put them in their own cots at 5 months I had one twin who found the separation from his brother very difficult. We did control crying with him for 2 weeks and finally he would sleep as per my schedule.

It is very tough to do this and I would recommend that if you do c/c, that you start it on a Friday night so that you and your husband can support each other those first few nights of the weekend. I found the first few nights the hardest.

Let us know how you go

hi just an idea my children all have cows milk issues but my twins only symptom was waking every hour we eliminated cows milk and the problem was sorted in 24 hours

Hi,
All my children (8 month old twins and 2 year old) were terrible wake up all night and feed all night bad sleepers untill we got tough and let them cry. We had a sleep therapist come to the house and her method is "cry it out" . It seemed harsh at the time but it was only 3 hard evenings where they all yelled for about an hour and now they all (pretty much) sleep through. They also go to sleep at the same time every night. Not for everyone but it worked for us.

Cheers
Nat

Hi twinhunter...

I also had shocking sleepers... I could never get them to sleep more than 45 mins in a row during the day, and nights were hideous. The only thing that worked for me was CC... sorry to say. I waited (too long!) until they were 13 months before I did it, and in all honesty, it took 2 days for them to settle into a really good sleep routine. Their daytime naps also got much better, and even now (at 22 months) they will sleep 2 hours during the day - together.

I would look into sleep schools in your area, I've always found them to be great, even just for giving you more confidence in your methods.

Hope you get some sleep soon,

Kate

Thank you all for your ideas. We have tried some of them and had a bit of success, but not a lot.

My girls still wake up between 3.30am and 5am most nights (although last night's craziness started at 3am). Needless to say, that I am at the end of my tether and am a very grouchy Mum!

I think one of the problems (beside them now just being in the habit of waking up at this time) is that they can now get out of their wraps. We wrap them super tight (you couldn't even fit a pencil in there) and use long wraps. But somehow they just seem to be able to wiggle their arms up and once they get their hands out, it's game over! We tried sleeping bags, but they are just so excited about their arms and hands being out, they can't settle themselves to sleep!

We have been on the waiting list for a sleep school for the last month, but unfortunately there is only one in Adelaide (so I'm told) and we aren't considered a high priority.

We will probably try controlled crying soon, but I don't think that my husband and I have the stamina at the moment.

If you have any ideas for wraps that even Houdini couldn't get out of, or any other ideas - please let me know.

Thanks.

Ditch the wraps and get yourself some safe-t-sleeps.
They keep them in bed, lying down unable to move I love them.
Then start doing the CC.
Start by ignoring the crying for a couple of mins give them a reassuring shhhhhh and a bit of a pat then leave the room.
Then when the ctying starts wait 5 mins again a reasuring shhhh and a pat then leave, then wait 8 mins then this is when you become clinical - go in give them a pat or 2 and then out of the room, no speaking no eye contact, then stretch the next trip into 12 mins and so on - don't leave them more than 20 mins if they are hysterical. You will be able to soon work out what is an accepatble cry and what is not. If it is an accepatble cry just leave them and they will go to sleep. Babies have a more stamina than adults when it comes to this!! If after a 20 min wait and the crying is hysterical - go in give a cuddle no emotion from you and keep taliking and eye contact to an absolute minimum, then once they are calm - put them back into bed and so it starts again.
Try starting this on a Thursday and make sure that you an Hubby have a roster. You go to bed EARLY and hubby can stay up to late, then swap so that at least the 2 of you are getting 5 hours sleep On the weekend both of you can take it in turns to have a snooze and by Sunday hopefully ythings will have settled down.

Oh and stop the rocking you can do a patting rocking motion on them when they are in bed as a side settle technique...but do not pick them up to do it.

Good luck....I survived...well kinda

Twinhunter I have another suggestion that I used with my girls.

I too had to ween mine off wrapping which surprised me because with our older daughter we just decided to unwrap her put her in a sleeping bag and she was fine. These two though ...

My twins used to cry when they got unwrapped so I decided it was time to ditch the wrap or at least wrap them under their arms tightly. I tried to just do it and that was a nightmare. Instead I continued wrapping them for the next few days but played a song in their room (the same one every time) when it was time for them to sleep. I think this changed their cues about what meant bedtime / sleeptime. After about 5 days I started the unwrapping and it worked. They changed their association about what meant sleep from wrapping to music. One twin is fully unwrapped and the other likes one arm wrapped and one arm in. They do not wriggle out of them anymore.

Now if they wake and won't resettle I give the song a blast and they go back to sleep.

(I just read this back and it sounds ridiculous but it did work.)

Karitane or Tresillian have pamphlets on their website about wrapping - I found one with good instructions and realised I had been doing it wrong anyway!

I also second the getting hubby involved on a roster. Its really hard to make these changes by yourself sometimes. If its possible for him to take a few days off or get your mum / other close relative it seems more achievable and helps to give you a bit of strength with it while your trying to make the change. Could someone mind the girls one day while you catch up on some sleep before taking it on?

Please let us know how you go!

I think you need MORE stamina to continue as things are atm!
We had all the same sorts of issues from 6-8mths. Definitely ditch the wraps, you're fighting a losing battle there. Switch to the sleepsuits - honestly they will readjust once the initial novelty wears off, it might be a few days of extra pain.

Perhaps introduce a sleep toy - a soft bear or some sort of snuggly thing that they can hold on to.
I would leave it at that for a few days, until they're slightly more settled in the suits - then start controlled crying.

Have to agree with twinboys explanation of it. I still cringe thinking about it tbh, it's not easy to do, but it was the only thing that ever worked for us, and it saved my sanity. The boys have slept so much better ever since. Also totally agree that you should not pick them up for resettling - they should stay in the cot.
Butterflies suggestion of music is also good - we used the Sounds for Silence CD, which I found very helpful for creating a neutral sort of sleep association.

Are you feeding them when they wake at 3am? If you are, I would cut that out altogether - or wean them off it by gradually diluting their milk. Again, a few more days of pain, especially if they continue to wake hungry - but I found they do slowly start eating more during the day, and it ended up doing wonders for their solids intake.

Hang in there - it might seem like a living nightmare atm, but it WILL get better! Devote yourself to a course of action and stick with it. Let us know how you're going.

I have a similar query -
1 of my boys is a wonderful sleeper...goes to bed at six wakes at 2-3 for a sleepy feed and then back to sleep till 6ish.
the other one has just started going to sleep at 6 then needing to be resettled 3 or 4 times before properly waking at 10 and needing to be fed and then waking at 1 and then 3 and then 6!!!!
they are 5 months old...i know that there is a major growth spurt at 4 months and 4-6 months is an "unsettled" time...
did this happen to anyone else?
i think they maybe too young for controlled crying...

Hi sleepless,

I don't have much to add except a couple of points - if you want to keep wrapping have you tried the double wrap with one around their back and arms and then a normal wrap over the top. If you decide to go with CC make sure you wite down everything, it is amazing how quickly it will start working and having it written down shows you in the horrible moments that it is working Also use a timer because a baby yelling at you for two mins can feel like an hour
It will pass and you will get through this and you will look back and laugh (but still think to yourself "wasn't that hell") LOL Good Luck and think about doing a sleep school I believe they are wonderful

Vanessa

PS I forgot to say I got my mum to sew up the arms of the sleeping bags when I first put the girls in them so they still had movement but it wasn't as exciting as having your arms out LOL I found this helped heaps, sound weird though.

Is it time for Tresillian?

Hi All,

Thanks for all your ideas and advice. Thought I'd just give you an update about how things are going.

We had about a week were things were much improved. One night the girls actually slept through. Yay!

What seemed to work was to wrap the girls and then put them in sleeping bags. Like Ausgypsy, we stitched the arms closed, so even if they got out of their wraps, they wouldn't wake themselves up by playing with their hands. Their room isn't heated, so they don't get too hot.

Unfortunately, things have deteriorated over the last 3-4 nights. I think that this can be attributed to the girls waking up because of teething pain. It is quite a miserable cry and is different to how they used to cry when I had to rock them previously overnight. They have just developed nappy rash (probably as a result of teething), so I don't think that this is helping. We will coat their bums in Vaseline tonight to see if this will help take the sting away when they wee.

Thanks again for your help.

Cheers.