Canberra Girls Grammar Open Day on this evening - pretty excited as I have my DD1 enrolled for the ELC next year. Keen to check it out!

Anybody else going?

So what did you think?

Karen

My husband and I have been throwing some ideas around lately and decided to put our children's names down to perhaps start in High School if they wanted to. I have since received a package with the fees etc and was gobsmacked at the prices Taking into consideration we have 4 children of course It would cost over 60K per year. If we have money like that to throw around when the time comes why not, but I struggle to understand why people would chose this option when there are plenty of other very good private and public schools around. My bestie has just completed her PHD and was a brilliant student yet went to a public high school and college with the worst reputations in Canberra. I think if a student is going to do well it doesn't matter what school they attend.

I guess we all want the very best for our children and there is nothing wrong with that, but the fees are much higher than anywhere else. In saying that I have no doubt they would be less expensive then the elite Sydney schools, my grandparents put their 4 boys through a private boys school in Sydney as boarders and looking at this it must have cost them a fortune.

I remember years ago working and a lady would come in with her husband and daughter, she was telling me that both her and the husband had taken on extra night jobs cleaning to put their child through this school

Anyway just some of my random thoughts

Thoughts welcome

There are plenty of other schools, but as far as my research has got it is difficult to find a non catholic private education in Canberra. Being a newbie, I am just interested to know what people think as to how this school (and the boys school) compare to the public ones? DH was educated in a public school but it was all boys and he values that fact.

K

You should give them a call and get them to send out the information package. The actual school looks amazing!

I have no problem with sending children to this school if you can afford it lol. I certainly wouldn't be taking on excess jobs and living on the edge to do it.

Maybe I have some hang-ups as they used to flog us in rowing ROFL......

That will be it then

My school wouldnt have even known what a rowing boat was, nevermind had a team

Seriously though you think the school looks good compared to the public facilites?

I gave them a call and their class are still 24, so no diff to a public school, so what is the difference you are paying for?

I think it probably is the extra curricular stuff. WDYT?

K

QUOTE

Seriously though you think the school looks good compared to the public facilities?

I wll say it but it really does going by other schools I have seen in my time growing up in Canberra In saying that some of the best schools may look pretty dumpy. I try my best to not judge a book by its cover. I think you get a feel for a place as soon as you walk through the doors. My children have attended a very small ordinary looking CC and we have been associated with them for over 4 years now and the car they have received has been 1st class.

QUOTE

I think it probably is the extra curricular stuff. WDYT?

You know that is a very good question. My husband and I discussed this tonight. I would love to hear from parents who have sent their kids to the school to comment. I am so very new to all this as my girls only started school this year. We are extremely happy with their progress so far. And no-one is hassling me to donate time and money

They had a printout of the year 12 results and % of children who got the different grades last year, so for the school overall they did extremely well. With the demographic attending this type of school I am not surprised. You would be getting a range of middle class, upper class and diplomatic children. Perhaps talented children on scholarships too.

QUOTE

I gave them a call and their class are still 24, so no diff to a public school, so what is the difference you are paying for?

I would love some thoughts on this too.

Have you looked at Radford or Bergman (sp)?

We are in tugg so they are just too far for junior school, but thanks for the tip off.

Lets see if anyone else knows more...

K

I'll comment because no-one else is.

DD1 started in the reception (3 year old preschool) program this year.

Overall, we are so happy with the school. DD1 is thriving there and the extra curricular activities are fantastic.

DD1 attends a specialised music class, library, assembly and chapel every week. They have junior school buddies and are very much seen as part of the school.

In terms of facilities at the actual school, I walked into the ELC and fell in love with the environment. They have all food provided too in the ELC, but not the junior or senior schools.

I have to address one comment that Chat made. We are far from wealthy (in fact we are barely middle class) and not everyone at the school is 'wealthy'. I have spoken to parents who have taken extra loans out on their mortgages to afford to send their children there and I think nothing of it.

DD1s class has a maximum of 23 with a teacher and assistant. I think the junior school is similar, with a teacher and an assistant.

I have spoken to other parents and we are all shocked at how quickly the teachers got the children in line. They walk together, are silent when asked to and are learning so very much.

I can compare it to my friend's son who is in government preschool (though DD1 would only be eligible for playschool this year) and the programs are miles apart.

We have heard some not so positive things about the pastoral care in the senior school, but we figure that we are years away from that so will make a decision closer to the time when we see what direction the school has gone in.

BTW, I drive from Belconnen every day People think I am crazy but it is another sacrifice I am willing to make.

Thanks for your response. Is it possible to give some examples of how the ciriculum is different to a gov preschool? It is a long time since I went, I only remember collecting th emilk for the class!!! We are also considering dd as a early entry to the public system, but are a bit concerned that she would be lost in a class with boys upto 18 months older.

Thanks again Karen

QUOTE

I have to address one comment that Chat made. We are far from wealthy (in fact we are barely middle class) and not everyone at the school is 'wealthy'. I have spoken to parents who have taken extra loans out on their mortgages to afford to send their children there and I think nothing of it.

I understand your point and pointed that type of situation out in my previous post:

QUOTE

I remember years ago working and a lady would come in with her husband and daughter, she was telling me that both her and the husband had taken on extra night jobs cleaning to put their child through this school

But I really think as a general thing and you will notice this over the years for that type of financial commitment the general population of the school will be as stated in my PP.

I did a course in Sociology and it was an eye opener talking to students straight out of school of the implications of the social structure in the private school system

I think that as parents if you commit that kind of money to sending your child to the school you obviously have high standards in regards to study and extra curriculum activities in your household.

QUOTE

DD1 attends a specialised music class, library, assembly and chapel every week. They have junior school buddies and are very much seen as part of the school.

We have the same thing at the public/Catholic school too

QUOTE

I can compare it to my friend's son who is in government preschool (though DD1 would only be eligible for playschool this year) and the programs are miles apart.

My girls attended a public preschool last year and it was the most wonderful child/play/lead program. The children were happy and ready to start school (kinder) this year. Now they are knuckling down and being pulled into line, which is what I would expect for a school student.

Tamara I would love to hear updates on how you little girl is going. I think your commitment to trying to get the best for her is wonderful.

Thanks for your comments Chat. I do understand what you are saying about making the financial commitment to the school and it is a huge decision to make.

With regards to the extra curricular activities offered, the ones I stated are what my DD is doing, keeping in mind she is only 3 years old and in the ELC and not the junior school.

There is the sport, the ovals and the facilities as well. I guess for us, we were both educated in the private system, and think very highly of it in terms of what it can offer our children.

I had an idea in my mind about what kind of parents I would meet at the school based on the stereotypes that are out about private education and I have been so pleasantly surprised.

Even though we live in a lower socio-economic area (which everyone is aware of due to the class list), and are only in our early 20s, we have been welcomed with open arms into the school community.

Another thing I love about the school is that is is very multi-cultural due to the diplomatic families. DD1 has a child in her class who speaks no English. I know this would also occur in some public schools, but I like that it is definately a part of CGGS.

Shine- when does your DD turn 3? This year, the oldest child turns 4 this month (so born April 2004) and the youngest turned 3 in March (so March 2005). CGGS is not a fan of 'holding children back' and the parents of the April 2004 were encouraged to put her in the older class, but ultimately were given the choice.

Children who are not 3 yet when school starts have the option of deferring until they are 3 (but I understand fees need to be paid even when they are not attending) or to do as one parent did and remain on site until their 3rd birthday.

I have to run out but an example of the differences in the curriculum is that DD1 is doing a lot of pre-reading and writing already, she is also doing basic addition and subtraction. CGGS runs the PYP which is part of the international baccalaureate.

http://www.ibo.org/pyp/

This has only started this year in the ELC and junior school but will move through the school. It is a large part of why we chose the school as we feel the ACT Yr 12 certificate is inferior.

Thanks for the link

I was really interested to see that Red hill and narrabundah primary also run this and that Copland college runs the senior years equivelent!!

I'm pretty sure the public French School does too

Yep true

I still remember way back when Copland college use to have the rep of "drug central" geeewhizz schools can change

From memory Telopea Park and Narrabundah College do to and for far less money

So is the CGGS going to eventually do the IB in year 12 instead of the ACT quals?

My understanding of the public schools that run this course are very over subscribed or your child has to get in on a special program, is that correct?

DD turns three in eight weeks, so will be one of the eldest in the school year.

thanks as always.

Karen

My bestie who excelled in her studies attended Charny and Copland I now refer to her as Dr .... .....

Hi there
Several of my parents closest friends work at GG. I don't know anything about their ELC but for junior and senior my concern is that there is such a focus on being seen but not heard.

Sure, there is a time and a place for being quiet, I am not suggesting kids run riot, but from what I know it is as if how things look to the outside world is more important than the children being themselves and learning who they are and being true to themselves. A lot of the learning is by rote which I think is really bad especially when it comes to maths and science - although a lot of schools still learn by rote.

I agree they have lots of extracurricular things that most schools don't have, but if this is what is important to your family there do seem to be some other schools that offer a lot of extracurricular activities although not necessarily the same ones (eg Blue Gums, Burgman and Orana)

While it doesn't suit my family and our beliefs and philosophies, that is not to say it wouldn't suit others.

Thanks that is really interesting. How do you find this info out about a school, you just can not get it from the website.

Karen

Karen, with the amount of teachers both teaching and not on EB I would be asking their opinion's.

I have spoken to many of them IRL and it is interesting to hear what they have to say and how it is usually not what is the public's perception.

The thing I have heard regarding Grammer is you get the grades you pay for and that's from a few teachers that have and do still work there.

Tan

Tan. Please tell me you are winding me up

R we talking in terms of "voluntary contributions to the school fund" and parent time etc.?

Right lets winden the topic, I am really interested in poeple's advice/ opinions on this one, I am at such a loss what to do with dd, as I still do not really understand the ACT education system yet. PM if prefered.

Karen

QUOTE

I am at such a loss what to do with dd, as I still do not really understand the ACT education system yet. PM if prefered.

Open the gates as I think this is a fascinating debate.

wish I had friends teaching at Blue Gums, Burgman, Orana, O'Connor and Lyons/Yarralumla. I agree - it is impossible to know what a school is really like unless you know someone well who is either teaching there or who has kids there.

I see also what you mean about GG producing kids who get good grades. I'm all for good grades (I was/am a nerd after all getting in top 1% for yr 12), but at what cost to the rest of the child's development? What is the point of having good grades if for example, you have not had much focus on understanding why (rather than just learning by rote), emotional development, financial learning or on working out what you really want to do as a career/s (even if it is something non-academic)? Not saying that none of these things will happen in an environment where grades are all important, just asking whether grades are really the most important thing? It's an issue close to my heart since I think my schooling was lacking in these things, and I really had to seek these things out myself, some not til I worked out they were important later in life. Maybe if parents were motivated and committed in working with the child in these areas it would be ok.

chilli chilli those are the reasons (plus $$$) we're hoping our kids would rather go to CIT / TAFE than uni! we are both 4 yr qualified at uni and have done CIT and found uni good for a piece of paper and not much else, CIT fabulously practical and realistic.

shine- so your DD is a June birthday? We are actually going through the process of debating whether or not to start DD1 (July birthday) in prep (kindergarten) next year or to leave her in her present grade and wait till 2010.

My advice would be that if you were considering grammar, to ring the school and speak to them. It may be an option for your DD to start in reception (3 year old preschool) in term 3 after she is 3 and see how she goes, and then decide whether to do another year of 3 year old (reception) or to move her to 4 year old (pre-prep) the following year.

FWIW- DD1s class has 2 spots still open. I am not sure if they are to be filled later in the year (e.g diplomatic/ defence postings) or that they haven't filled them. Two children started after the first few weeks of school as they were not yet 3/toilet trained.

Tan- I am glad that you get what you pay for, if you are indeed talking about the fees. That is after all why we pay for private education. If the results were not there (and I am not only talking about marks) then no-one would bother would they?

FWIW- there are no 'voluntary' donations to the building fund. Just a compulsory one, though of course you would be welcome to give more than that I guess.

This is a little OT but worth mentioning, my dad still receives the newsletter for his private school in Sydney and letter's asking for donations! He is 55

I am going through similar debate over DD#1 who is starting high school next year. We will never be able to afford Radford/Burmann/CGGS and I will be struggling for the other private schools but I am seriously considering it.

Why? There are often kids who are extremely motivated that do extremely well in public high schools. DD is motivated but a very shy child and will be easy pickings for bullies. And I know that private schools will have bullying too.

For me the difference between public and private is that in private they can expel problem kids. In public schools, they cannot deny a child an education and if under extreme circumstances, they do expel a child, they can simply re-enrol the next day with a clean record.

I have taught in both public and private and was very frustrated as a teacher at the lack of discipline and behavioural support in the public system. At one school, we threatened the dept with a strike over a particular student (violent, abusive and very disruptive). At the last minute the dept caved and allowed the boy to start working at the age of 14yo. Here in ACT, I have been told of kids so violent in schools that they have an escort to attend classes?

good point Jill about private schools being able to expel more easily. I wonder how many children do get expelled from private schools? or do public schools end up with all the violent bullying children?

I remember when I was at school, there were about 15 children in my year who had been expelled multiple times and returned only to continue their violence and bullying. It makes me sad to think what has happened to these children to make them so violent (although I was very glad each time they were expelled). Once they are being violent and bullying I wonder what the solution is? not saying they should stay where they are, but obviously moving them from school to school getting expelled from each isn't the solution either. Addressing and undoing damage from a bad childhood is going to be difficult too. Ok, completely off topic! I am interested to hear what does happen to bullys at public schools in Canberra though.

I am finding this thread very interesting. Like a PP has said, it is hard to know what to look for in a school unless you know someone who works there or sends their kids there!

We are going through the process of deciding which primary school our kids will attend. We are leaning towards Catholic primary schools ATM but are open to the local public school too.

Chillychilli,
I have heard of most of these schools and the reasons why they have a good rep, but what school is in O'Connor and why is this such a good school in your opinion?

Chillychilli, I teach at one of those schools you mentioned, am happy to answer any questions you may have

Jill, that is one of my concerns and I watched your post last week with interest.

ChillyChili. That is what I feel my education missed too, which why am interested in the extra stuff on offer. I am the product of a public school, as is dh we both made it to a top Uni with great results, but my school focused purely on the academic side of life (probably a consequence of all UK schools being ranked by academic results).

Brazen - I agree with you with respect to Uni. The world has gone made on the over importance of everyone going. I have a degree in Engineering, but could not tell which end is up in my car, do the electrics in my house or anything useful for that matter!

Karen

I like the way the O'Connor school is run in terms of it's P&C and not just blindly following what the Dept of Ed says. They call it a co-operative school. It seems to be one of the more alternative public schools in Canberra and they have a big focus on learning about the impact you have on the environment. They have a garden where the kids grow vegies, learn about permaculture, composting, alternatives to using chemicals etc. Sounds weird, but O'Connor school reminds me of a lot of the things I like about the ANU Food coop but in a school - real community spirit, excellent goals for health, reuse, growth etc. That is the ANU hippy part of me coming out

They only go from K-2 though, so depending on how you feel about that, it could be a downside. Personally I like small schools, but I can see that it could be a hassle if the yr 3-6 school you wanted to go to was far away.

Thanks Chillychilli for the info about O'connor co-operative school

ChillyChilli this school in O'Connor only goes to year 2, right?

See I personally have a problem with that because you then have to put your child into a school environment that is already established iykwim. Are you worried about that at all? In saying that if it goes beyond year 2 I take my comment back

I went to a private school with plenty of extra activities on offer. I took advantage of this only my school work was left to the side as my focus was elsewhere There are pros and cons to all this I suppose.

QUOTE

For me the difference between public and private is that in private they can expel problem kids. In public schools, they cannot deny a child an education and if under extreme circumstances, they do expel a child, they can simply re-enrol the next day with a clean record.

I must say I am extremely happy with our schools stance on this. They do expel and also follow up with counseling.

yep it is only to year 2. I believe the only going to year 2 is part of the ACT gov school cutbacks. Same as Lyons. Which is a bugger as you say because then you have to resettle them into another school come year 3. Problem is we really really like what we know about these two schools.

However, the other way to look at it is that if you use a k-6 school you still have to resettle them into a 7- school. and if you use a separate college (11-12) then that is another lot of resettling. I imagine there are pros and cons of having all in one (k-12 or preschool-12) schools versus separate schools.

True ChilliChilli. There have been some families at our CC (wattle) who have sent their kids there and been very happy with it And Grammar too I might add

If you are talking about the Cooperative School in O'Connor it has always been an early childhood setting K-2. Well for as long as I have been teaching and studying (14 years) so nothing at all to do with any funding cut backs or 2020.

Hi Susana, I thought there was something about them not being able to expand years or merging with another school (Turner??) I thought I read this a few days ago when i was reading an old act school thread from when the closures were originally being proposed.

I believe that P-2 schools are part of the way forward in providing choice in the ACT. A new P-2 school is due to open in tugg next year and then the following a P-10.

I went to (the equiv of) a P-2 school and then to a P-6 school and I do not remember a problem - not sure what that says

Karen

Have to say as well I'm finding this topic really interesting. We have DD enrolled at the ELC and CGGS from 2010. I am a CGGS old girl and they still could not guarantee her a place. When I was there the school was wonderful from a school spirit point of view, the facilities were fantastic but I found the education lacking for those that were middle of the road (me), the focus was more on the higher achievers. Having said that I really enjoyed my time there. I had the opportunity to speak to the head of childhood education (can't remember what it exactly was) at CIT and she said that while the CGGS ELC has a good reputation, there has been a high turnover of staff, which is not so good.
Am keen to hear all the opinions on the ELC.

I am interested to see parents who favour GG and other top end private schools due to the extra-curricular activities on offer.

If you sent your child to a neighbourhood school and took the money you would otherwise spend on school fees and transport and uniforms, how many extra-curricular activities would you be able to provide your child with? Sport, languages, music etc.

Just wonder if anyone has done the sums?

Steph

Steph: There are many reasons we have choosen to access the private system in the ACT. Extra curricular activities is just one aspect of what is on offer.

It isn't just about the money being spent. It is also finding time outside of school hours to fit in all these extras. This is a very real issue in a household with two working parents. I'm only working 3 days atm and feel very stretched trying to fit everything in. I am happy that DD has access to these wonderful programs several times a week, as it does take the pressure off me somewhat.

Rach, I wouldn't be overly worried about getting a place for 2010.

I went to put DD2s name down for 2010 and they were surprised I was doing it 'so early', and we only put DD1s name down in October 2006 for 2008 entry and she got a place no problems.

Steph- for me, the religious aspects of the school is a strong driving force. I like that she goes to chapel, says prayers, goes to assembly and that during her school day she has the opportunity to have the extra curricular activities.

For me, I do not want to be dragging her around here, there and everywhere to 'outsource' her education. I like that it is all inclusive.

We also didn't have the option of government preschool this year and my DD was beyond child care and playschool did not provide adequate sessions for her needs. For us the only option was private education.

Wow, I didn't expect the thread to end up like this!

The reason I started the thread is because my DD1 will be starting CGGS in the ELC next year - and I can't wait. Hey, it costs the same as daycare anyway!

I work in the Senior School and have been since 2006. I have nothing but praise for the school.



Sorry but I don't agree with this at all! Of course I can't speak on behalf of the girls, but most of them are wonderful, happy teenage girls. The school has it's 'rules' ie hair up, wear uniform and certain shoes, sure. It also has an 'order mark' system. The girls are given an order mark if they break a rule (e.g late for class, contstantly told to take excess jewellery off etc). After 3 order marks the girls are given a detention. Even then they are not 'punished' as such, just given a consequence for breaking the school rules.

All girls are taken care of equally, and for those who need more assistance than others, it is given to them. This goes for both curriculum and co-curricular. Currently there are 5 students in year 12 doing Accredited. Now I think that is amazing!

YES the fees are pricey. TBH I don't know if my DD's will stay at CGGS for their entire school years. I'll be looking at a catholic primary/college. But if I DID have the funds and be comfortable I would definitely send them to CGGS.

Rach - Yes I agree with Tamara, you shouldn't have a problem with getting your DD in. What I believe happens is they wait for the year subsequent to the year of start, then formally ask. Being an 'old girl' you will have some priorty, just like I do for being a staff member.

No chance at all of getting into Radford unless you are on the waiting list (pretty much from birth). Well unless you are Kevin Rudd.......a spot miraculously appeared then

I have a feeling that Burgmann is equally hard to get into.

Yep, Burgmann is just as hard to get into as Radford. Although hopefully with the second campus opening in Forde the waiting list will ease back. We are most happy with Burgmann and the boys love it.

Thanks for starting this thread, I have found it very interesting.

I am currently preg with our first child due in August and I will be taking the enrollment forms for both Radford and Burgmann (as a back up to Radford) to the hospital with me (and no i am not joking). We specifically stayed northside so that we were close to Radford. Figured we may as well get on the waiting lists seems as though we aren't Kevin Rudd.

We were looking at grammer, but decided to stay with Radford... who knows we may change schools if we move over the other side of Canberra.. have a few years to decide that yet. To us, we are happy to invest in our child's education.

Tara

You will be so pleased with the quality of the setting. We are constantly being amazed by the level of planning and thought that goes into everything that happens there.

We are glad to be northside as well, as it makes the drive quick and easy. BTW Radford has a lot of children coming from Tuggeranong!

Haha I assumed M.Rudd was at Grammar lol.