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hayleymumof3
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Rape law change to redefine consent


Steep drop in conviction rate spurs effort to protect women

Alan Travis, home affairs editor
Monday October 28, 2002
The Guardian


Women who are drunk or under the influence of drugs will automatically be regarded as unable to give consent to sex, as part of an overhaul of the law on rape to be announced next month.
The change is part of a tighter definition of what amounts to consent to sex, which will severely restrict the circumstances in which a man can offer the defence that he "honestly believed" the woman involved wanted to have sex.


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Ministers have come down against creating a separate offence of "date rape", or acquaintance rape, on the grounds it would make it seem that such an attack was in some way less serious than being raped by a stranger. The changes in the definition of consent will apply to all forms of rape, which is expected to include oral and anal sex without consent, so that they can carry a life sentence.
Home Office ministers were angered by suggestions yesterday that proposed reforms were some kind of knee-jerk response to the furore surrounding the allegation made by the television celebrity, Ulrika Jonsson, that she had been raped by a television presenter.

"The home secretary has approved no formula for change and is considering very carefully this very difficult and sensitive issue," a spokesman said. "Speculation on specific formula or wording does not help, as it carries no authority or agreement at the political level."

The reform of the rape law forms part of a much wider overhaul of Britain's laws on sexual offences, initiated with a government consultation paper two years ago.

Britain's most senior police officer, Sir John Stevens, the commissioner of the Metropolitan police, yesterday appealed to rape victims to go to the police. He said claims the police were unsympathetic to victims of rape were based on outdated attitudes.

"It is absolutely essential that if a woman goes through the trauma of rape, whatever the circumstances, that she reports it to the police," he said.

The home secretary, David Blunkett, pledged to reform the laws on rape in July, saying the fall in the conviction rate from one in three reported rapes in 1977 to one in 13 was unacceptable. His proposals have not yet been finalised but are expected to be based on a Home Office review, Setting the Boundaries, published in July 2000.

That review, written by Betty Moxon, a civil servant, recommended placing strict limits on when the "honest belief" defence could be used: "A defence of honest belief in free agreement should not be available where there was self-induced intoxication, recklessness as to consent, or if the accused did not take all reasonable steps in the circumstances to ascertain free agreement at the time."

Home Office sources make clear they are not talking about the negotiation of a legally watertight agreement before two people go to bed but stress that a rape that follows an evening out is not about any kind of consensual sex.

· Police chiefs will today press for "restorative justice" schemes, under which criminals apologise and compensate their victims, to be included in the forthcoming criminal justice bill. Police believe "going straight" contracts can cut reoffending.


Wonder if they will try to do this here?
If they do imagine how many 'real' rapes wouldn't be investigated.
kimnz
Not sure what you mean hayleymumof3?

It sounds good to me. My best friend came very close to this as she was drugged by a male workmate the one and only time she went out with them. She just finished her drink(brought by him; Yes a little naive) then announced she was going home. He offered her a ride which she refused and the symptoms hit her on the train. She got off at the next station and called me and her DH. He went and picked her up and she was out of it for about four days. The scary thing is that she doesn't remember ANYTHING of that time so didn't report it. How many girls get raped this way then wonder if it was their own fault for accepting the drink/leaving it lying around? At least it clarifies how wrong this situation is.
hayleymumof3
Yes drugging is wrong and being raped during that time is disgusting and should be stopped but you can still have consentual sex while being drunk. Think about it for a minute a woman trying to get back at BF goes out and has sex while she is drunk BF finds out about it and gets mad so said girl goes oh no I was drunk and therefore I was raped the poor guy that she had consentaul sex with is found and charged and for ever has to register as a sex offender is this fair to the innocent male?

I really don't think that just because you have had a few to drink makes you incapable of consenting to have sex.
Battingeyelashes
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If they do imagine how many 'real' rapes wouldn't be investigated.
What do you mean by "real" rape?
hayleymumof3
By rape rapes I mean
date rape (drugged or otherwise)
stranger rape
voilent assaults
child sex

not some woman who while drunk consented to the sex but after the fact decides that no I really didn't want to do that and has the guy charged with rape even though at the time it was consental.
Battingeyelashes
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not some woman who while drunk consented to the sex but after the fact decides that no I really didn't want to do that and has the guy charged with rape even though at the time it was consental.
Wouldn't she need to prove she has been raped before getting him charged?
hayleymumof3
QUOTE
Women who are drunk or under the influence of drugs will automatically be regarded as unable to give consent to sex, as part of an overhaul of the law on rape to be announced next month.
The change is part of a tighter definition of what amounts to consent to sex, which will severely restrict the circumstances in which a man can offer the defence that he "honestly believed" the woman involved wanted to have sex.


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Wouldn't she need to prove she has been raped before getting him charged?


Apparently not.
Battingeyelashes
I think laws regarding rape need to be overhauled, the way victims are treated is unacceptable.

I also don't believe that innocent people should be charged with a crime they didn't commit.
hayleymumof3
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I think laws regarding rape need to be overhauled, the way victims are treated is unacceptable.

I agree 100% but with these new laws how many woman are going to be aquised(sp?) of just being to drunk to able give reasonale consent and how many rapists will get off on a technicallity(sp?)
CBMKBJA
I think it is about time. How can you say no if you are unconscious. I never can understand how people can have sex with someone who is out cold.
Delirium
Put in simple terms, for sex to be consensual you need to be able to say yes to sex, not be unable to say no. I think it's a good idea and I've always said that it should be the case with Australian legislation.

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Think about it for a minute a woman trying to get back at BF goes out and has sex while she is drunk BF finds out about it and gets mad so said girl goes oh no I was drunk and therefore I was raped the poor guy that she had consentaul sex with is found and charged and for ever has to register as a sex offender is this fair to the innocent male?


The proposed legislation wouldn't change the incidence of people who lie about being a victim. If they were going to lie before, they would still lie under the new legislation.
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