END WORLD POVERTY?

What are your thoughts on the current movements to end world poverty, and are the aims of those movements realistic ?

The basic aims are - 'more and better aid', 'trade justice' and to 'drop the debt' for countries that are impoverished.


MAKEPOVERTYHISTORY:
http://www.makepovertyhistory.com.au
"MakePovertyHistory brings together a wide cross section of organisations, faith groups and celebrities who are united by a common belief that 2005 offers a unprecedented opportunity for global change."

LIVE8:
http://www.live8live.com/
"Every single day, 30,000 children die, needlessly, of extreme poverty.
On July 6th, we finally have the opportunity to stop that shameful statistic.
8 world leaders, gathered in Scotland for the G8 summit, will be presented with a workable plan to double aid, drop the debt and make the trade laws fair. If these 8 men agree, then we will become the generation that made poverty history."


More from the MakePovertyHistory website:

-8 million lives could be saved every year if minimal healthcare was available in developing countries.

-One woman dies every minute as a result of problems in pregnancy or childbirth. Of these, 99% are in developing countries.

-A child dies every 15 seconds from water-related diseases.

In this discussion, you also may want to talk about other movements that are working towards ending poverty. [color=beige]

This message was edited by ~Anni~ on Wednesday, 13 July 2005 @ 10:51 PM

i think it's great that this issue is coming back into focus again, because it's been ignored for too long. a lot could have been done about it long ago, and a lot of people are needlessly living in poverty.

just as one example, In sub-Saharan Africa, malaria accounts for 11 percent of the disease burden. Had it been eliminated 35 years ago, the continent’s gross domestic product would have increased by 100 billion US dollars. The number of poor people in Africa is forecast to rise from 315 million in 1999 to 404 million by 2015, and increasingly degraded environments will play a large part in this. medicines that could prevent this cost first world countries only a few cents a shot!

the other thing that bothers me is that the US currently produces enough food to feed 15 percent MORE people than are alive in the world today! they produce something like 160 billion kg and 45 billion kg is thrown to waste, of which Fresh fruit, vegetables, milk, grain, sugar and corn syrup accounts for two-thirds.

i feel like we've become very selfish and only thinking about what we need for our own little patch of soil, and not thinking globally enough. i would love to see our generation be the ones to make poverty history!


DD#1 Rachel 30/8/01 DD#2 Olivia EDD 7/7/05
[img]http://www.tickercentral.com/view/1v08/1[/img]

Hi

I think this subject is so controversial because yes so much needs to be done for these countries because so many are suffering. I look at my DD and could not imagine her going through the same as many of the children that live to tell the story. I hope it helps in every way. I always encourage my DD to give as well as teach her that sharing does go a long way.

I know it's not much but instead of selling my DD's good stuff especially toys I either take them into community places to see if they need them or to the local charities. I grew up on Salvation Armies Christmas hampers. And u know what u don't know the difference

tinka_angel28

Mum 2 Mirabi Ruby who turns 2 on 28-11-2005

It reminds me of the saying - How do you eat an elephant?...... One bite at a time!!!

If we don't start somewhere in little chunks how will we ever handle the big stuff. If everyone gave $5 in one of the G8 countries - WOW what a difference.

So in answer - Yes I think this is a powerful and importent movement. The more the merrier. If we have a roof over our head and food at dinner we are better off than a good deal of people and it's our responsiblily to help those less fortunate!

IMO

Cheers
Cylie

DS Billy - 09/04/02

I don't generally get involved with the monthly discussions as I'm not really a lover of controversy... however I think this topic is cut and dried. END WORLD DEBT and give these nations a chance to find their place. I've seen first hand what famine and poverty does to these african countries and nobody should have to live like that - NOONE. As long as there are measures in place to control corruption and steer the funds to where they're supposed to go, I can't see a negative to the argument.

Just my thoughts though.

Chelsea

When you see those little skinny babies and children... if it were my child....

How can we not at least try...

As Bob Geldof says - just got to get rid of the politics!

Jenifer (30)
David (32)
Dyllan (31/01/99)
Jayden (29/07/03)
Cameron (03/04/05)

I so have to agree with you, I live in the UK and the Live 8 concerts yesterday where just wonderful. One of my lucky friends actually got to go.
It is such am important issue. Bob Geldof has copped a lot of crap over here saying that he is doing it for his own self promotion but I wouldn't know anything about this if it wasn't for people like Sir Bob or Bono bringing it to the worlds attention.
I don't believe that in the year 2005 ANYONE should have to live in such poverty.

After hearing a wonderful priest, Fr Patrick Byrne speak, I was enlightened to many atrocities that happen around the world.

He gave the example like this.

How do you think the world leaders would react if 12 boeing 747's suddenly crashed killing approximately 12,000 children? They would be absolutely abhorred and would be demanding answers.

The chilling reality is that this many children die per day because they do not have access to clean drinking water.

The same priest gave us statistics that it would only take $6billion to make sure majority of children around the world had access to clean water.

Considering the world spenditure on defence last year was something stupid like $900Billion, it makes you sick to think what the so called "lucky countries" can do if we put our minds to it.

Not to say that I am not greatful for what I have, but I do feel that we should do more to help alleviate the desperate situation in the world.

Steph.

It's a very worthwhile cause but cynics say debt relief will just never happen. One of my friends thinks it's a huge waste of time as his understanding is that first world banks loan money to corrupt governments. Country of corrupt government can't afford to pay back the debt. Debt relief occurs in the way of someone paying back the bank. Bank then loans money to another dodgy government, and the cycle continues. And that a bank isn't going to say "let's sacrifice billions of dollars to help the needy".

There are so many little things that can be done as well to improve things in third world countries such as providing medication that we buy in the shops.

I agree with all the ideology behind the Live8 and added my name to the list.

BUT:

I agree with Spark. So many things can be done, but what about the leaders of these countries? These corrupt Governments that choose to spend what little money they have on weapons etc. Mugabe is killing his own people because they don't agree with him. Some of these countries have absolute tyrants running them, who certainly couldn't care about the AIDS epidemics that are decimating their populations, and choose to fund their own lifestyles rather than spend money on immunisations which could save a childs life.

That said, whatever comes from this can only serve to help the people in need (I hope).

Lex x

I have lived and worked extensively in Africa working with the World Bank. Whilst the extreme poverty is heart wrenching, it cannot be eradicated by simply throwing money at it. Africa is complex - culturally, socially, economically and politically. More aid is needed, I think no one disputes that, but aid has to be effective.

Funding and aid needs to be implemented at grass root levels. Through hospitals, education & schools, medical research, basic utilities and by empowering the African people with tools to develop economically and to provide for themselves. The leaders of these countries are corrupt cheating their way into power and then plundering the country's resources and siphoning the cash off into Swiss bank accounts. They live in multiple luxurious homes, driving luxury cars and send their kids to private schools in Europe. Corruption exists in all sectors, with the fat cats getting richer and the poor getting poorer. Writing off debt is sending the wrong message.

There is no reason why we cannot end world poverty, but it will require people in the First World to share. And I don't mean just donating a couple of bucks to World Vision. I mean give up some of our standard of living. Those millions living (or rather dying) in poverty are doing so to pay for our superior standard of living which has been increasing exponentially since the last world war.

For example the reason why so many live in poverty in Africa is because even if they survive a corrupt goverment, war, and drought and manage to make a crop or something that can be exported, the First World says to them no you can't sell your stuff at our market - our farmers and producers have to sell their stuff first. We'll let you have the leftovers. These first world countries say they want to have free trade, but really they only want free trade amongst themselves - they don't want to have third world products freely traded on their markets because this would lower the standard of living of their own countries. This just perpetuates the cycle. The people in the 3rd world are powerless, subsistance living being the most they can hope for and without some kind of economic growth possible, they are so open to more corrupt governments and more wars.

If people are serious about ending world poverty, those of us in the First World need to truly ask themselves - What will I give up so that others can be lifted out of the poverty trap? What about that four wheel drive monster? Or the McMansion with 4 bedrooms, 3 toilets, family room, games room, 2 dining rooms etc when the average number of kids is less than 2! What about that mountain of toys that the kids have most of which is forgotton a week after they're bought! What about that 2nd TV! What about that desire to have THE most fashionable clothing? I know there are a some people reading this who don't just consume consume consume, but it seems to me that's they way most of this society is going. My question is if there are so many people now living in poverty, what will happen in 50 years time when we have to start fighting over access to water, fuel, metals and mineral resources?

The only thing we can effectivily do is to make small changes now to the way we live our lives. Next time you're overcome with a desire to buy something you think you need but really you just want, stop right away, decide to go without that thing, and donate that same amount of money to a charity. I guarantee you will feel better.

Yes, I absolutely agree. That's why I support World Vision because sponsorship money goes towards building schools, immunisation, education about AIDS and health, getting tools and so forth.

The lack of education is such a huge problem but not only from an academic perspective but also for things like health. Do you all know that many people believe that by sexually penetrating a baby, you can cure yourself of AIDS? I saw a documentary on this (in South Africa) and what a large amount people believe is horrifying. Education needs to involve everything, not just reading and writing skills.

Live 8 and those kinds of things have the right intention, but realistically, I doubt debt relief will ever happen. The banks stand to lose billions by doing so, and make billions by lending to another corrupt official and the cycle continues.

Our world is screwed in a very big way. All it takes is a few people to snap their fingers and vital medication can make its way to millions of dying and sick people and not cost much at all. So why isn't it done?

I wish people in power, both corporate and government, were forced to go and live in a third world country for a month or so before starting their jobs. Maybe that would make some determined to stop this catastrophe (that's me being optimistic and unrealistic).

The impression I got of the issues surrounding the G8 meeting is that the debt relief part of it is easy - its just throwing a bit of money in (which I have been told will reduce the amount of aid a country would recieve anyway). It is (as mentioned by kcc) the elimination of subsidies for growers in the 1st world countries that will cause a major problem.

What is being asked of the 'great 8' is that they go back to their own countries and tell them that they will no longer provide subsidies for thier own farmers. Imagine in Australia - no subsidies for our own growers who will have to compete against the much cheaper produce coming from 3rd world countries. Political suicide! And no one knows if it will work!

I have signed up and will wear a white band. I am finding out as much information as I can, I have never been politicaly active before but I really feel that something can be done!

I too think it is terrible to see how the other half of the world live and we should do want we can. I think people are also relucant due to comments such as .."I wonder if they receive all the money that is donated?" And really that is a very good question.
The other thing is what about the poverty here in Australia or USA or England. Should we start in our own backyard?

gabbat

I encourage everyone who believes that children shouldn't suffer should consider child sponsorship thru World Vision. We have recently sponsored aseven yr old boy in Africa and the children think it is just fantastic, DS finally feels like he has a 'brother'! If you can't afford it how about a group of ffriends or work colleagues pitch in every month to pay the $39 that it costs. Really when you break it down to just over a dollar a day how can you say no???

Please consider going to www.worldvision.org.au

Stella
DSD 12
DS 6
DD 4
DD 1

Although I believe that poverty is abhorrent I am very reluctant to give money while there are greedy dictators in so many African nations effectively stopping aid getting to those who most need it.

I am also a strong believer in charity begins in the home. How many Australians are living in poverty?? True world free trade will cause a major sub class within our own farming communities who often already live hand to mouth.

I take my hat off to those of you who's vision has not been jaded by years of misspent money and corruption. Without your belief that something is still possible nothing will be. I however, would prefer to spend my time and money helping those who have slipped through the gaps in our community.

My heart wants the answer to be yes but.......
When a country borrows money from institutions such as the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and the World Bank they have to agree to follow certain policies in order to qualify for the loan. These “Structural Adjustment Policies” have been criticised as causing poverty!!! They require the countries to increase their interest rates, remove government subsidies, reduce currency exchange rates, privatise government sectors and reduce protection of domestic industries.

These changes result in the removal of funds from health, welfare and education. A drop in workplace conditions also occurs as various regulations and standards are also removed to try and attract foreign investors.

Can these problems be fixed by removing debt? I don’t think so, I believe its more complicated than that. Removing debt will stop any further impoverishment but reversing years worth of socio- economic damage won’t happen just because at a national level the country is now financially ok.
This needs to occur at a local and regional level and be self sustaining. Giving those who need it most the opportunity to support themselves and maintain their dignity.

Liz&bub - this is one of the issues 'make poverty history is looking at, I think it is the 10th Dec. meeting that this will be voted on - we are campeigning for true free trade - allowing poorer countries the same trade freedom we have.

i think it is great that some of you are considering supporting the cause and making donations. can i just strongly suggest that you take the time to truely research the organisation you want to donate with and find out exactlywhat proportion of your money actually gets there and isn't spent on advertising and fancy packaging of photos/letters you receive. i did and i now support oxfam as opposed to some of the other organisations out there. i agree it is personal choice, but i urge you to research first. by no meansam i attempting to open a discussion on various organisations and this message is not meant to be seen as argumentative

Making a change in the third world is indeed a complex issue.

To me - even if only 10cents out of the dollar got to the person dying in the street - and it gave them hope and the ability to go on - then I would forgoe the other 90cents. It is not ideal but a life is a life.

All three of my children come from Ethiopia. We have been there twice now and when I see the images on the TV I can not understand how anyone can not do anything.

Someone interviewed on live* said he didnt think it is fair that people in Africa can not live like us in the west. In reality that is not they want - they just want to live. Mums want to know their child will live the year - Dads want to know that they will live to support their families, Children want to stop hurting and seeing their friends die.

I have heard of how these children slice the mud bricks of the corners of houses to eat as it fills them up - but they have to be careful as the owners will beat them if they see them eating their houses.

My daughter who had been in care for almost a year when I adopted her was 6 years old, 13 kg, 98cm tall and very close to no longer being around - and she was condidered "lucky".

My son who spend his entire life in an orphanage came to me as a 6kg 10 month old.

When I asked my 15 year old street kid - now sponsor child what I could do for him - he asked if I could arrange to have him tought the second half of the alphabet as he had learnt the first and would like to become a doctor.

I saw people sleeping with their babies in the gutter, I saw people asleep on the footpath and to this day I am not sure if he was asleep or dead.

The kids bathe in the drains while their parents fill their water bottles in the same water - just downstream were two dead cats.

How can we turn away from the chance to make a difference?

I sponsor a 14 year old who is the new "mum" to her 5 year old sister - they were living on the streets as they are aids orphans. - their mum and dad loved them, imagine how they must have felt as they took their last breath knowing that their kids had no-one.

I hear people say that charity begins at home - and I know some people have it hard - but seriously the gap between hard here and hard there is a canyon!

We sponsor 2 of our kids through Christian Childrens Fund and feel of the bigger organizations they are (for us) the best option.

We also sponsor HIV orphans through a small Australian organization and the work it does is amazing - close to 90% of the money goes to the children, it takes a street orphan, gives them a home, an education, clothing and a future, the chance to change their life and make a new future - it costs $400 a year but I share my girl and her sister with three others costing me only $100 a year - I met her last year - she was beautiful and so amazed that someone cared about her.

They can arrange for split sponsorship, it is tax deductable and I urge you if you are interested to have a look. You will not get any flashy magazines in the mail, you will not see their advertisements on TV - they will not spend money on directors or workers, they send their money direct to those that need it. http://www.hopeforchildren.org.au/#howHelp

Wow, if our generation could be the one to end poverty - what a legacy

I think Bob Geldof is an amazing individual and as someone whos heart is in Ethiopia - I can not ever thank him enough for caring.

Whoops

Hope For Children actually send 100% of your sponsorship money to the child you sponsor - many of these children are orphans so you are not sponsoring a family in most cases but a child or child headed family.

They do split sponsorship but you need to find someone to sponsor with. IE if you were to find 3 friends who were willing to sponsor a child for $100 a year each you could share the sponsorship of one child and you would all get information about that child individually.

It is a very good way to make a huge difference even if you can not afford a dollar a day.

For those considering sponsoring in Africa - give them a lot of thought as it is the only sponsorship programme I know of that gives 100% to the child - all admin costs are incurred by the staff themselves.

Mumandloveit! of three precious Ethiopian children.

I remember hearing this while watching the repeat of Live8, on the weekend.

Jonathan and I pondered the question, if 30 000 children day every day, how many are being born every day? Will wiping out the poverty of Africa, then allow Africa to then be overpopulated? Of the 30 000 how many are actually dying of Aids? Will helping them by opening up trade agreements, change their views on using condoms?

It's a pity that they haven't found oil in Africa, because then the US would go in and get rid of the corrupt government!

Ciao Darli
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Of the 30 000 how many are actually dying of Aids?

Does it matter? does that make it less important?


Will helping them by opening up trade agreements, change their views on using condoms?

As many of these people live in country areas where there are no shops, they have never seen a condom - many poverty stricken Africans resort to eating grass and filling up on stones, they can not afford a bread roll - at about the cost of 3 cents Australian. They have never heard of condoms or contraception even if they could affore it and they have no idea what aids is or how you get it - 3 years ago a common thought it some areas was you got it from eating raw eggs.

Handing out condoms is not the answer - the answer is education and assistance.

People in the west say why don't they just stop having kids. With no education or birth controll it makes this a harder task than just saying why dont they take the pill.


It's a pity that they haven't found oil in Africa, because then the US would go in and get rid of the corrupt government!

I know that you are not being serious here but many countries have found things in their countries that the west want - small companies from the west come in and work with the corrupt government taking what they want and giving nothing back anyway.




We are so lucky to have been born here and not there.
30,000 children a day. that is 30,000 families who watch their baby slowly fade away, loose their energy, and die in their arms. In many cases to be buried along side their brothers and sisters.

I can not imagine watching one of my babies die in front of me while I had no option but to cry and perhaps not even the energy left to do that.

World poverty will never end. NO matter what is done there will always be a corrupt government who will redirect aid to feed there armies, friends and own family. This is sad but what can be done?
Sure you could send the UN to help distrubute the aid yet when troops from countries are commited to such forces do gooders are outraged at there countries troops being committed to thing that do involve there nation directly.
I hope my views dont offend anyone as it's not my intent to offend.
Oh yeah this isnt bandgeek its her partner.

World Poverty is not going to end overnight, but one life at a time! Its unfortunate that the children in Africa/ other 3rd world countries have to suffer because of the corrupt generation ahead of them. I believe if we are going to make a difference, then we need to focus on the NEXT generation and do what we can to make a difference for THEM. If its to eradicate the country's debt so that the children dont have to work to rid it, then so-be-it. If its sponsoring a child, and helping them realise that someone they dont know cares about them, then that might be all it takes to give the child hope enough to want to be the next leader of the country, and make a difference.
This generation of children will be the country's next leaders, doctors, nurses, politicians, etc. We can all do SOMETHING to give them that extra leg up in their world.

Rubo

Exactly! and imagine being the mum (or dad) of a child and through the generosity and love of someone you will most likely never meet - you get to send your child to school with a full tummy.

When I met one of my sponsor children she said one thing to me as I left which I think sums it up.

"I don't know why you care about me, but thankyou"

Bump

I'm going to sound like a complete idiot LOL but I admit that I have no idea about why there is poverty in Third World Countries? Why the government is in debt with other Countries? I honestly don't know and would like to know. In my naive mind I think it sounds so simple, each Country donate at least 1 million dollars. Build houses, build hospitals, teach Nursing etc, train teachers but I guess it's not that simple and I would like to know why?

I've always wondered how we reached the point that actors are paid millions of dollars to make a movie and yet 30,000 (I had no idea it was that many, how tragic) children die a day!!

I've just sponsored a child. It surprised me a bit that there is an option for you to flick through photos and information to chose your child? I don't care what my child looks like I just want to donate my measly $10 per week to help give one of them a better chance in life.

Edited to add; Sorry I just realised there is some information about debt on the website links Anni provided at the start of the thread. Ive had a look and added my pledge but will have a proper read tomorrow.


This message was edited by Mum2Angels on Saturday, 23 July 2005 @ 12:54 AM

We have decided to sponsor a child. We are so incredibly lucky to have been born in a first world country. We decided we would give up something and direct that money towards sponsoring a child so our cleaning lady has been fired. DH says he's gong to enjoy vaccuuming knowing that it means that a child will have a better life.

The people of poverty stricken Niger, the world's second poorest country, are starving. Almost one million children are at risk of starvation. They need your help. Images of these emaciated, skeletal children are heart wrenching and unforgettable.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/general/afte...2143850581.html

To donate money to the desperate people of Niger, contact:
Red Cross - Call 1800 811 700
World Vision - Call 13 32 40
Oxfam - 1800 034 034

This message was edited by Gigi on Wednesday, 27 July 2005 @ 9:26 AM

HI girls,

I'm currently organising a fundraiser for the United Nations World Food Programme. Check out my other post.

http://www.essentialbaby.com.au/CFForum/vi...28&Topic=191354


Poverty in third world countries is a vicious cycle of all the worst things. Countries are in poverty due to corruption, greed on the part of developed nations, natural disasters such as drought and plagues, outbreaks of disease (HIV Aids) and lack of education. One problem feeds the next and unfortunately, it's true that there may never be an end to it all.

But, it's human beings that stand in the way of change. There is enough food in this world to feed everyone in it but due to greed.. it sits in stockpiles going to waste.

Although it seems an insurmountable task, there is much that we can do to help the lives of people (in particular children) who find themselves in a situation that they did not choose or create. I believe that my little dd was destined for me... but her little spirit could have just as easily been born to a child suffering from the affects of famine and poverty. This is why I can no longer just sit back and turn a blind eye.

Money is not the only answer, awareness and activism are what bring the biggest changes. Did you know that the leaders of the world new about the inevitable famines in Niger back in November last year? The UN appealed to countries to raise 10million dollars for emergency resources but only two countries made donations. It has only been in teh last 2 weeks (basically since the first images of children dying hit the news) that the 10 million was raised. Unfortunately, the situation is now even worse and the cost of funding the operation has gone up to 30 million!

The main reason why HIV is spreading so fast is because these people with no education, who have to scrounge to get one meal a day, who are eating leaves and bark to survive, who have children that a dying of starvation.. the last thing on their minds is.. Oh.. better put on a condom!

Why do so many countries with countless poor people have nuclear arms, will the money be going to the right areas?

Well, in cases where money is given directly to the government, the money may very well go to the wrong places. But when donating to Non-profit organisations like Worldvision, Unicef and the World Food Programme you can be pretty sure that the money is doing good.

The world seems to be unable to deal with this horrible situation - maybe if all governments of first world countries imposed a specialtax of say $50.00 a year on all tax payers - this would go a long way to providing much needed funds

If we all try to do something (even a small gesture daily) collectively we will bring about change.

Im a huge supporter of charities but of course it is never enough but we can only try our own personal best.