P L A S T I C S U R G E R Y & M A K E O V E R S



This month's topic is about the increasing amount of surgery & procedures that people are having these days. One side of the issue is that these procedures can very much enhance the life of a person. The other side is that the procedures, or the amount of procedures, can become extreme.

We've all seen the new 'extreme makeover' reality shows on TV in the past year or so.

We've seen tummies tucked, cellulite sucked, noses trimmed, bottoms slimmed, double-chins snipped, 'excess hair' blipped, lips expanded, faces sanded, leg-bones extended, breasts suspended, complexions brightened, teeth whitened, implants in, and ears pinned.

Any of these procedures have their place, and have improved the well-being of the person who has it done.
But it's a bewildering array of procedures when most of them are done to the one person in a makeover show !!

Do you think a heightened standard of bodily perfection is being set ?

What kind of messages to you think are being sent to our children ?

Are we going too far ? And how far would you be prepared to go ?

[color=white]

This message was edited by ~Anni~ on Thursday, 3 March 2005 @ 8:42 PM

To the first question YES!

The kind of messages it's sending our children I personally don't think are particularly good ones. Sure if you're in a ahorrible accident and you need plastic surgery to fix something or there's a medical reason to have plastic surgery sure but chilren should be taught that they are perfect just the way they are. And it seems that some adults need to be taught that too.

Yes i believe we are going too far "fixing" things that we feel are "wrong" with us. Media sets an often impossible image for women and men alike when really people should be looking at themselves in the mirror and saying "I'm a fantastic person! I feel great today!" Instead of "Oh my gosh I'm having such a fat day and my eyes are sagging and OH MY GOD! IS THAT A WRINKLE! I'd better started saving to fix myself up".

I have to say I would never have plastic surgery unless it were for medical reasons because something wasn't working unless it was done.

I think that the message that these shows send our
kids, is that it is ok to treat yourself badly, cause
you can just have surgery to fix it.

but the shows to do not really paint a true picture of
the painful healing process the contenders have to
endure, and sometimes people actually put on more
weight while they are healing in real life!!!

I am not against plastic surgery having had a nose job
about 10 weeks before my wedding in 2002. After being
teased all through high school, with big nose and
other such taunts, i had developed a phobia of it, and
just wanted one that looked "nicer".

the surgeon asked me a series of questions before
recommending me for the surgery. My answer to why do
i want surgery was "because I want a nicer looking
nose". Not "I want to look like Pamela
Anderson.....LOL....

I have never looked back. It hasn't changed my life,
but i am much more confident without makeup because my
face is now more normal and feminine. I wished I done
it years earlier too.....

Wendy 34
DH 40
TTC # 1 June 2004
Infertilty diagnosed 25th Feb
2005 damaged tubes.
Starting IVF March 2005

I think it is hard to give a definite answer.

I have things I don't like about my body, but I am not prepared to go through surgery to get a nicer body. I need to diet and exercise and look after myself better to feel better about my body (step away from the chocolate biscuits, Kimley!).

There are some in these shows where I really think 'Yes' I can understand why they want it so desperately because diet/exercise/new haircut is not going to make them feel better.

For example, one woman lost a huge amount of weight and another had a baby and both were left with REALLY baggy skin. Another couple of girls had huge breasts that stopped them from participating in exercise and gained weight etc. Surgery was about a better quality of life, not just boosting self esteem by being prettier.

Also - people with really bad teeth - I can understand doing a makeover, because if you feel selfconscious about your teeth, you won't feel like smiling as much as you should.

However, some of the stuff goes a bit overboard at trying to turn these people into plastic dolls. Tucks here, an implant there. People can be beautiful without looking like a plastic doll.

There have been a couple who have been okay looking, that with a little nice dressing, looking after hair etc - would look very pretty and they are moaning about their poor self esteem because they are not pretty? Umm in another 10 years when you age - are you going to lose your self esteem again? I think they are in for trouble because their esteem is tied to being 'pretty', wheres the more appropriate candidates are people who want to look more 'normal' because they have an extreme feature which makes them lose confidence.

I have a different opinion!

Where have we come as a society when an obviously fake plastic surgery look is considered beautiful? Sure, the people on Extreme Makeover aren’t going to win any beauty pageants, but it’s their horrific self image that should be an issue! Anyone heard of counselling?

The show follows individuals as they attempt to transform themselves into a socially acceptable, barely functioning, inhuman monsters. The production team sweeps up the backwards hicks and sends them to the land of Jon Voight’s too-tight eye job and Meg Ryan’s over-collagened lips. There, they’re treated to optional surgery, and fawned over by a team of cosmetic dentists and fashion consultants. Finally, there’s the big reveal, when the paticipants are unveiled like silicon statues in front of amazed and repulsed family and friends.

Taken on the basis of it’s production, I hate the whole idea of this show. Not only do they completely glance over the surgical operations, there’s no demonstration of the work that goes into deciding what needs to be done with the person’s face.We also don’t get to learn much about the people themselves, and what forces them to decide on such a drastic change in their lives. Why do they feel they're outside appearance is so important?

There’s also a perverse fascination to be had with results of the surgery. You just can’t wait to see how it’s going to turn out. They go too far. Sure the lady has a big nose. Fine, get your surgery and put an end to it. There is no harm in that! But is it really necessary to get breast implants, botox, lipo, bum lift, fake tan, nose job, eyebrow lift, cheek implants, and a fake looking chin as well? Can you honestly disagree with me?

Cheers Jess
My email is briegh03@yahoo.com.au

Do you think a heightened standard of bodily perfection is being set ?

No not really - yes they are vastly improved but there bodies are still not perfect.

What kind of messages to you think are being sent to our children ?

If you dont want your children to watch these kind of shows then turn the TV off , there are far worse things for a child to hear and see then a person that is unhappy with themselves that want to feel and look better.

Are we going too far ? And how far would you be prepared to go ?

Definately not going too far, if it makes them feel better about themselves then I dont care what they do, its their body not mine.

Personally I would love to get plastic surgery done if I had the time and the money.



Yes I can honestly disagree with you..lol.

You may think its not necessary therefore you arent having it done, however, they obviously think its necessary for them to have it to gain some self esteem so asking if I think its necessary for them is a bit pointless- I dont know how depressed they are inside.

Personally, I would love to get liposuction and a boob lift.

Thankyou for your responce,

I got this from a KIDS HEALTH website, it is kids view on what bad self esteem is. It shows that kids actually take in a lot more than we think.... It's not a matter of turning off the television! Telling yourself how bad, ugly, stupid etc. you are.
Disliking yourself.
Hanging around by yourself or with people who tease you.
Not keeping yourself clean and tidy.
Taking the blame for everything; not standing up for yourself.
Thinking of a mistake as something that only happens to you.
Believing that you can't change anything.
Not trying to learn or practise new skills.
Believing that life is always bad and the future will be just as bad.
Being negative and not thinking that you can change anything.
Thinking that no-one likes you.
Brooding about all the bad things that have ever happened in your life.
Not doing anything that you might be good at or enjoy.
Listening to and believing people who tell you bad things about yourself.
Jess

I agree with Kate.

I would get it done in a minute....put me down for the works

If it improves how you feel about yourself on the inside how is that harming others?

Who the hell wouldn't want to look better? :quest:

Amanda (previously known as amandamum)

Georgia and Kelsey 26.3.99
Piper 1.7.04

I think these shows are deeply amoral, and refuse to watch them. I think they send a very clear message that, no matter what else you do, unless you conform to a very narrow view of beauty, then you are worthless. Frankly, I think they should be banned, and I'm not really one for censorship.

I also think that before having non-medical plastic surgery, you should be required to have some counselling about your self esteem.

However, if plastic surgery DOES help your self worth, then it should be available. But I think in most cases it doesn't make a huge amount of difference if the person inside you is the same.

Cheers

Di

I reckon a lot of them come out looking a bit characterless.

I can see the need for plastic surgery. I've been watching The Insider lately & they've had women on who have had gastric bypass surgery & as a result of losing weight have tonnes of loose skin. The woman on last night's show looked like a Sharpei (sp) puppy.

There's parts of my body I wouldn't mind changing. I'd like bigger boobs & a slightly smaller nose. Not sure if I'd actually go ahead & change them even if I did have a spare $10-20k. They don't bother me that much. Bigger boobs wouldn't make me feel better about myself...nor would they be a magical cure but it would just be nice to fill out a dress.

It most definatly *is* getting extreem. However since we have the technology, why not use it. I know after we're finished having kids I'll be getting as fit and healthy as possible and then reassessing my body and will probably get a breast augmentation and tummy tuck.

But I'd never consider any vain cosmetic surgery without being at my absolute best of health and in shape. I'm talking about what *can't* be fixed by diet and exercise.

Ahh, hard issue to comment on....

If I was wealthy and had finished havng children, I would love to have a few things done.

I don't think that there is anything 'wrong' with plastic surgery. its a personal choice. It would be nice if we lived in a time/place where looks wasn't so important to everyone and that we all felt compfortable with how we look. That world is not the place we live in today (if only!)
I think that this ideal of beauty is all around us now. I think we should all try and make our kid's feel as special & beautiful as possible, in hope that they grow up quite confident in their appearence and ability.
I except that if I have a daughter in the future that there will be stages where she is at home fretting on her appearence and going on everydiet around after reading mommy's Womans Day etc or Dolly or Girlfriend or whatever. I just hope that it is something that would be a passing phase. I tried them all, obsessed over it all at a young age, but now i'd say that I think about all this stuff at what I would consider a normal level of thinking about it.
I'd love to change a few things, and if money allowed then i'd do it.
I agree that some of these people on extreme makeover go waaaay overboard - but maybe if I looked like them and had their life and their struggles, maybe i'd be going over the top also
i think everyone has valid points!

I personally wouldn't do it - but then again I have
symetrical features, nothing that has caused me
emotional distress. I think surgery and recovery is
a very traumatic process. What I don't understand
is the flippant approach some people adopt in this
situation. i don't wear make-up or fuss about
clothes and image, but I went through all of that as
a teenager. As a parent, I know my kids probably
will go through it as well. However I'll definately
raise them to know that being attractive/ self
confident etc...depends on so much more than
looks!

I think its a personal choice thing.

I have a friend who recently had breast reduction done. She said it was the best thing she had ever done and she wishes she had it done a few years ago.

It has its place but it is not something I would do, but I may change my mind in a few years ;p.

Sorry, this is a long one, but maybe you can answer some questions for me and give me a nother perspective.

It's been really interesting to read all of your points.

I have an intresting perspective of my own as my younger sister had breast implants in January. When she told me before Xmas I was shocked and pretty disgusted with her. I just couldn't get my head around the whole thing in order to accept it and understand it. I couldn't wish her well and tried talking her out of it but, she was adamant, she was going to have it done.

Her reasons were a) she'd finished breastfeeding her second child and found that afterwards she was very flat chested (she was only an A cup to start with) and B) she wanted her clothes to fit better. She swore to me that she wasn't doing it so that she would look better or sexier or anything like that. She said she didn't care what people thought of her flat chest but, in the next breath she was telling me she felt embarrassed when she was in the gym wearing a singlet and wanted to feel like a real woman again.

The feminazi in me sniffed out some contradictions there. I wonder if the counselling that the plastic surgeons offer is REALLY interested in the patients' psyche deep down. I have a feeling that the counselling is fairly shallow and are covering things like how you feel now vs how you will feel later type of thing. What do you think?

I had a disadvantage in that my sister lives in WA and I live in NSW. We only had contact over the phone and I couldn't see her in her everyday situation to judge if she was depressed and unhappy with her body and how that was affecting her life.

She kept saying to me, but you don't have this problem, you have boobs. Plus, I live a different kind of life to her and have a different personality to her....despite having red hair, freckles, short legs, the list goes on, I'm confident within myself and get my self satisfaction and self-esteem from other things.

Is this the difference between those that do and those that don't have plastic surgery for these kinds of reasons?

Are people relying a lot on their outward appearance and how people interact with their looks?

Is society becoming one that focuses so much on the outer image that the next generation of young women will have (what I consider major) surgery without trying to find out why they REALLY feel 'bad' about their bodies?

Why am I beginning to feel 'old-fashioned' when I express my sentiments about plastic surgery?

Thanks.

Yes.

All the 'trash' mags splash faces and bodies that are waxed, tanned, oiled, picked, plucked and covered in make up that takes hours to do and is done by a professional make-up artist. Then the photos are touched up to cover any blemishes, teeth are whitened, hips are trimmed, waists are cut - it's not reality and I think it stinks.
With that sort of treatment, any one of us could look as good as any celebrity.

Then when celebs are having a 'bad' day - What, a normal day? - they make it seem like a horrible thing.
So what is the media training us to think? Certainly not that we should love ourselves as we are.

Kids are learning the wrong thing. They're learning that the only way you will feel happy and succeed in life is if you're pretty. (or handsome) And the only way to fix self esteem issues is with a nose job.
Wrong Wrong Wrong!!!
I really feel for young girls especially and it worries me what the next generation are going to be like.

I agree with cosmetic or plastic surgery when it's correctional. Such as removal of birth marks and repairing cleft pallets. Even repositioning ears that stick out too far. This is all fine by me. I think it goes too far when it's an attempt to highten self esteem.

- Ange -
Proud single Mum to ...
DS#1 - Zac *April, 2002
DS#2 - Declan *Jan, 2004

I find it interesting on these shows when a person wants something corrected eg a nose, becauses he or she has always felt insecure about it. But then they have a stack of other procedures done as well. I have wondered if they gave the people a new hairstyle and makeup and clothing tips pre-surgery would they then have as many surgical procedures?

My DD has a sunken chest because of a medical condition, which she can have corrected if it causes her emotional distress, but I would never suggest she seize the moment and have lipo and breasts done because the opportunity is there.

I want my children to understand that our bodies age and that's okay. I accept my wrinkles and tennis-balls-in-socks boobs for what they are - a sign of life experience.

Kerelle -



I dont think anyone truly knows how deeply someone is depressed about their body ....for example ; I have been extremely depressed about my body for many years and my family and friends are aware of my displeasure for my body but wouldnt have a clue about the real depths of my depression , sure I have told them how much I hate this and that but deep down they have absolutely no idea how much I truly loathe my body, unless your that little voice in that persons head - you shall never really know how depressed they are.

Your sister is probably a bit guarded about the true reasons for having the surgery because she knows what you think about it and may try to talk her out of it.

If a TV show wanted to spend thousands upon thousands of dollars on me over 3 months to get whatever I choose done to my body for free - heck I would jump at the chance, it is after all a once in a lifetime chance and I know 100% for sure that I shall never be able to afford it otherwise.



Thats great that you are confident and happy with your body and you dont seem to lack self-esteem, others on the otherhand are not so fortunate and them surgery will help them on the road to obtaining some self-esteem.

I often wonder why ppl that are so against plastic surgery dye their hair, wear makeup or the latest fashions after all arent all those types of image enhancers also done to boost self-esteem ?!

Of course plastic surgery is a more extreme type of image booster to just dying your hair or wearing make-up etc but I look at them as being done for the same reasons, just ones more permanent then the other.

So is your sister happy with her new boobs? lol

Mum_2_Boys you said


If your having surgery done to remove a birthmark or repositioning ears, arent they also done purely for self esteem reasons?!

There is no difference between the ones having liposuction or a brow lift or someone having their ears re-positioned.

It all has to do with self-esteem and I fail to see how one type of surgery to help self image is different to the other.






This message was edited by appleonia on Sunday, 6 March 2005 @ 11:25 PM

Text
Karelle, I think that for your sister to actually have gone ahead with the breast implants means that it must of really been affecting her - as how many of us say we'd like something done yet never do it ?! I don't know what your sister breasts looked like after her 2 children, but in some magazines I have seem some pretty deflated saggy boobs of women after having given birth. some womens boobs look great afterwards, and some really loose their shape etc. I know if mine went like that I would get them fixed. It is plastic surgery yes, but is it so bad also to want to get back to what you once had? I had an accident where I fell over and bit the bath when i was 14. My front teeth were broken, my lip had scar tissue the size of five peas on one side of my lip. I've since had it all operated on , but my left hand side of my lip is still bigger (slightly ) than the other and my teeth look good now but still they are not what the once were. It depressess me, and i'd love plastic/cosmetic surgery to get back to what I had before that accident.
Its just the same as someone having braces. I mean, alot of the time braces are for our self esteems, as not many of us would be compfortable with buck teeth.
I think most of us are trying to improve our look's in some way most everyday or week etc.
Plastic surgery is not natural no, but nither is shaving our armpits, eating meat or wearing clothes for that matter. times changes and so do they way we live, and it will continue to do this. Why do we shave our armits even? its natural to have hairy armpits and legs, but we don't like the look of it, and we are often imbarassed with unshaved arms walking out and about in public. We are all vain!!
Great discussion Ladies

Sorry everyone,
I came across as a selfish, judgemetal b*#@?!
I just wanted to share how I felt when I first learnt that she was going to have brest implants....It actually forced me to do a lot of soul searching.
By the time she had them done I was happy for her. She is happy with the result and whatever makes my sister happy makes me happy because I love her.
Thanks for your responses,
Karelle

On another note - It is selfish to spend that much money on making ourslelves look good, when people in the world are starving.

Karelle - Im sorry if my post read as having a go at you, I appoligise as that wasnt my intention at all.

I just wanted to point out that some ppl really struggle with their body image and the thought of having plastic surgery isnt taken lightly by some.

my_angel_iain - true ..but where does it all stop? I mean if you wear makeup and nice clothes and drive a car and go out for dinner and have takeaway while there are still ppl starving in the world isnt that being selfish as well ?!

Hi!

I actually agree with you. And I was thinking the same thing as I was typing my post, but thought I would post it anyway, just to add some fuel to the discussion.

I guess it is rather subjective as to what constitutes money that can be best spent elsewhere....

No worries, Appleonia.
I'm the one who should apologise. Who am I to judge anyone for wanting to look good for themselves?

Anyway, it's been fun discussing with you all. The world certainly is an interesting place!!

Bye

Well, There is alot to be said on this topic!!!
I have actually had a taste of whats its like to have plastic surgery.
I used to have an earring on the top of my ear and due to infection it bubbled into a keiloid. I had it removed by cosmetic surgery by a plastic surgeon. He did a good job removing it, but where he grafted skin the same problem came up again. So basically same problem, different spot. Luckily its on the back of the ear. I would like to remove his fault (i went back to him and a consultation fee was $115 dollars and he only sees you for like 5 mins, not refunded by medicare)He doesnt want to redo the procedure and I prefer to go elsewhere anyway.
The entire procedure cost about $1800 and I got about $800 back from medicare for the procedure. But that was a few years ago when his consultation fee was $50 so I can imagine it would cost more now!
Its very painful and expensive!
After doing that, I would NEVER put myself through plastic surgery that wasnt necessary.

But it is personal choice...

This message was edited by Pinkies on Thursday, 10 March 2005 @ 5:39 PM

Do you think a heightened standard of bodily perfection is being set ?
yes

What kind of messages do you think are being sent to our children ?

That beauty is rated so highly in our culture that if you aren't beautiful you aren't good enough.

Are we going too far ? And how far would you be prepared to go ?

I think we are going too far. I think surgery is becoming commonplace and not a big deal anymore, and I think it's a shame that we use it so much rather than accepting how we are.

On the other hand, for people who have a huge hangup about their appearance, or have been terribly disfigured in some way (whether by birth or accident) I can imagine it would be very liberating to remove the burden of a disfigurement. The extreme end of that is someone like Michael Jackson, who perhaps thought he could improve himself and has made himself a freak in the process. That is really sad when people go crazy and overdo the surgery.

Well, this has been a very interesting discussion...

At the end of the day I think that Plastic Surgery should be a personal choice. Not that i agree with those trying to become Barbie or Brad Pitt, thats just Psychotic. But for someone who wants to genuinely look like their best self - why the hell not. I dont agree with lipo instead of diet & exercise either. It shouldnt be used like that.

On a personal level, after i have finished Breast feeding my second child i will be evaluating my boobs & considering seriously whether or not i will be lifting them back to their original location. My DP has been arguing with me about this, [doesnt think i should do anything] but this will be about MY happiness about me. I am proud of the fact that i have successfully BF 2 children, but i do not want to spend the rest of my life with my "saggy baggies". [i am fully aware that they will sag with age etc, but im 25 ladies, i dont want 55yr old boobs right now ok ] I also have one that is quite obviously larger than the other - & if its possible i would have that reduced to the size of the other rather than have implants to make them even... But when i finally make my decision about whether or not to investigate surgery - i will find out what would have to happen & THEN decide.

theres my say

Vee

Do you think a heightened standard of bodily perfection is being set ?
yes

What kind of messages to you think are being sent to our children ?
perfection. Look good on the outside makes you good on the inside. Which is rubbish.

Are we going too far ? And how far would you be prepared to go ?

I would jump at the opportunity to have surgery done on my boobs for an uplift & reduction. I have quite ample boobs and after two kids they are now way tooooo low. Not to mention the pains i get carrying these things around.

The second thing i would get done is lipsuction on my thighs. Due to two kiddies too.

Damn kids have trashed this body of mine ! They are worth it though.

I think the people on these make-over shows could have almost as good results with a good hair cut and a make up lesson from a professional. I know i look so much better with make up and hair done. It is sad but people do treat you better when you look better. Alot of people are shallow.

My mother had a breat reduction, tummy tuck and some liposuction, mainly for health reasons and she looks great now and doesn't have the discomfort of extra large breats anymore.Its exactly what I want to have done as I have large breats aswell and the annoyance of carrying them around outweighs the potential risks.

When watching medical shows that shows people winning the chance to have corrective/plastic surgery I'm amazed of how much this changes their lives.

So for people who have dealt with problems all their lives, I wouldn't judge anyone.Maybe there should be a closer network monitering for people who become obessed.

Do you think a heightened standard of bodily perfection is being set ?

I think that as we become a modern society that competition is rive. For example, the settlers would not have cared if their next door neighbours 100km away had saggy boobs.

What kind of messages to you think are being sent to our children ?

I think the most important messages should come from the parents. So hopefully our kids have an open and honest relationship with parents, enabling them to discuss and resolve self esteem issues.

Are we going too far ? And how far would you be prepared to go ?

People are individuals and make their own decisions. As for me, I will be doing plastic surgery (for me) once and if we have a second child.

Sheree
ART history:
* 11 laps for severe endo, PCOS
* 5 IVF, 6 FET, 2 cancelled
* Beta scheduled for 23/3/2005
"Miracles to happen"

Do you think a heightened standard of bodily perfection is being set ?

Hell yeah. When you have girls as young as 5 with eating disorders, things have gone too far.


What kind of messages to you think are being sent to our children ?

That only beautiful people are liked, and popular.


Are we going too far ? And how far would you be prepared to go ?

I have no problem with people having cosmetic surgery to improve their self esteem because I've done it. Prior to it I had NO confidence, hated going out, was unhappy etc. I wanted to slap the people who would tell me "you should be happy with what God gave you". Ahh bugger off.

But when you have these extreme makeover shows with people looking rather freakish afterwards (mostly the men), I know I would never go as far as a face lift or eyelid lift. Sure some people look great, but with a face lift or something to make myself look younger (even Botox) I would feel awfully fake, and a laughing stock with people that know me.


I haven't read any of the responses in this thread so I'm not aiming my reply at anyone.

This is a difficult one, on one hand I think there IS a place for cosmetic surgery and for some people it can be a real lifesaver........but it really depends on what is being done and for what reason? I think counselling prior (by professional psychologists NOT just any old person) should be mandatory for anyone under 18 yrs. If people think that by having a boob job they are going to be happier or more popular etc, then they are kidding themselves.....this is a big problem for a lot of young women.
On the other hand - I have huge breasts and can't wait to have a reduction for my own comfort and convenience and yes - to look better - but I know that by having it done I'm not going to be a better person or be any more lovable or wonderful etc......I can certainly understand people getting things that really bother them like big noses or sticking our ears or moles removed or weird eyes etc fixed....I would probably do this too and I have known people who've had these sorts of procedures done and it's all been GOOD news - but again - I think they didn't have unrealistic expectations about what having surgery could do for them........

However, those extreme makeover shows are shocking! Just taking it all WAY too far...but that's humans eh? Can't stop some people going to extremes of anything!
G

PS: Why ANY woman would want big boobs is quite beyond me :gasp: The explosion in young women having boob implants truly amazes me!?!?! What I'd give to be flat chested without needing big surgery to achieve it!!

The number one high school graduation present in the US (or so I've read) is breast implants.

Gawd - how ridiculous! I bet the # 1 procedure done after 30 yrs will then be removal of implants

I think the big problem is people are confusing self-esteem with media image of beauty.......terribly sad - all of it really - what is wrong with us that we can't just accept how we are and value our uniqueness? Also bizzare that the fatter and unhealthier we all get - teh more plastic surgery is done!!
G

While I agree there are valid reasons for plastic surgery, I think these shows such as 'extreme makover' and 'the swan' really take things much too far.
For people who say that it helps their self esteem, I have to ask - how good are you going to feel about yourself if you are told that the only way to become a worthwhile human being is to have tens of thousands of dollars spent on plastic surgery to completely alter your appearence? Not only that, that you have to have weeks to months of intensive 'life coaching' to completely change your personality?
People are individuals, but we are living in a society where increasingly there is becoming an ideal 'perfect' we should all strive to - perfect body, perfect face and features, perfect breasts, bum, etc. I personally think beauty comes from being healthy and happy. Healthy people glow from the inside, something no makeup or plastic surgery can duplicate. People will appreciate you more for being yourself, caring for others and enjoying life to the full instead of obsessing over your looks.

"If everybody looked the same, we'd get tired of looking at each other" (Massive Attack)

whilst I understand that many women have issues with their body (myself included..) I really think that those who truly believe that by having plastic surgery they will improve their self-esteem.......need to seriously see someone professional about this. The very essence of "self-esteem" is that you feel good about yourself INSIDE and no outside changes can really improve that. Believe me - I know - I suffered badly from poor self-esteem, poor body image & had anorexia for a few years in my teens - I thought that weight loss would help me feel better about myself......etc....etc (too complex for here)
It really wasn't until I got myself to a good psychiatrist, achieved some things FOR MYSELF (my uni degree......hardest but best thing I ever did..) accepted things in my past that I couldn't change, that my self-image improved. Then I met my hb and with his love and support - the last 10 yrs have been the most wonderful in my life.

So - I know every case is different. But to me there is a big difference between having a boob reduction cause you have F cups, or havig your ears pinned back cause they really stick out or nose job cause it has a huge lump in it.........VS purely "cosmetic" procedures aimed at improving self esteem. Of course, it's a fine line and a nose job on one person has a different effect then another (esp self-esteem) But again - when I do finally get my boobs reduced - it won't be to improve my self-esteem as such - it will be to improve my quality of life!! Had I done it at 20yrs of age - I probably WOULD have done it for what I now consider the wrong reasons - and I probalby would have been sadly disappointed at the result as I don't think it would have made a bit of difference to my self-esteem related to my body image at the time at all.......I'd probably been more miserable after as I'd spent all that money........for what??!!!

Bump

Checking..

I think this is such a personal issue and everyone has thier own points of view and thier own reasons for thinking and feeling the way they do. So I can only give my thoughts...

I personally would never have lypo, or a tummy tuck (as much as I'd love the result from that one...) or a but lift or a chin or check implant or anythign along those lines... I do however feel slightly differently to breast proceedures. This is because I am currently a 12F. I went from praying for bb's in year 5 to a 12C in year 6. So I am sure you can imagine the hard time I have recieved over the years. I do appreciate those times now though cause they made me stronger and helped me to become the woman I am today because of those times. But now being almost 28 I would, once I have finished having babies and no longer want to bf, consider a breast reduction. I have had no real problems to date casue I am in reasonable shape, But as I get older I know that the size of my bb's will become more of a burden on my neck and back. I would love a C cup. Oh the joy I would get from being able to wear a top without a bra!! AHHHH!! LOL!!

Also though on the other hand I can understand people on the otherside of the scale... A cups... I can totaly understand them wanting to "upgrade". I just think that there should be some sesible limits on the changes... ie I would be stupid to go from a F cup to a A or even a B cup... and an A cup would fall over if they awoke with an E or F cup....

I really think that a proper evaluation must be done of each patient before they can be apporved for any proceedure. It's they "why" thaty want it done that matter,,,

I hope I never succumb to pressure for perfection and avoid plastic surgery but I can understand that it has a place especially for people who have been disfigured by accidents etc.

Ultimately, its a personal decision - I don't know how I would cope looking in a mirror and seeing a stranger look back at me.

I think society as a whole has a lot to answer for in regards to body image - too many young boys and girls are having it tough enough already with 'weight' issues.

This is a tough topic - I sure as hell dont have any answers *shrugs shoulders*



Me - Shar (31)
DH - Rico (35)
DS - on his way !!!

It's April - and time to close the Hot Topic for March. Looks like most people have concerns about messages being sent to younger generations, but there are mixed views on the issues surrounding extensive plastic surgery.
Good discussion!

Anni