With the election looming, there has been much discussion on the various politicians, and who we will be voting for.

The election is only a little over a week away, and are seeing politicians pulling out the big guns in regards to promises and policies.

Regardless of which party you may be voting for, what are the policies, promises and ideologies (of any political party) that are impressing you, or at least holding your interest ?

Which policies/ideologies do you think stink ? (in so many words)

Here are some websites of the various parties:

http://www.liberal.org.au/
http://www.alp.org.au/
www.democrats.org.au/
http://www.greens.org.au/
http://www.nationals.org.au/
http://www.familyfirst.org.au/
www.christiandemocratic.org.au/

This is by no means an exhaustive list - for a full list, please check out:

http://www.aph.gov.au/library/intguide/pol/polparti.htm

(After October 9 - we'll be switching to discussion of the election day, and the outcome of the election.)
[color=white]

This message was edited by ~Anni~ on Friday, 1 October 2004 @ 11:54 AM

I'm generally a "swinging voter" but this election will be voting labour and I decided this long before the recent policy announcements...........
Why? Because although the Libs have done a good job with the economy - they've done it at the expense of our culture, identity and ideals. They've either sold off, or want to sell off all our national assets (which really is half the reason our deficit is gone!) they have been mean spirited and nasty to refugees, they've allowed big business to overtake small businesses and they've turned us into a capitalist, cut throat, lapdog for the USA........I'm not anti-American - but I like US to be US and Australia to be Aussie!!
Labour seem to have a more balanced homefront approach and want everyone to do well - not just the upper classes and big business. They seem to have more of an ideology which fits with the traditional Aussie way of life which to me is based on mateship, looking out for each other in times of need and good community spirit - the "fair go for all" ideology.

Personally - I would probably get richer quicker with Libs in - but overall - what point is there in some doing well and others living in misery? I'll just end up locked behind a highwall & driving to/from work in bullet proof vehicle - bit like in Sth Africa :-(

Being a health professional - I also have seen the Libs run down our healthcare system - starve it dry via the stubbornness to admit that they have killed bulk billing and medicare. Labour started medicare in the 70's and it's the best system in the world IF it's run well and supported - I believe labour will revive it and that is ultimately good for us all.
Same to our education system - we are nothing without a well educated population - ALL our kids deserve to be able to access education - this "user pays" systems that the libs are creating is going to widen the gap between rich and poor - it's simply not fair.

I know it's petty too - but I DETEST Abbott (he's such a slimy, sleasy hypocrit to me!)and Johnny boy is way past his use by date - his ideas and opinions fit the world of the 1950's. Latham to me understands contempory Australians better and has faced adversity - his personal style not always to my liking, but I have to admire the bloke for rising to one of the highest positions in the land via sheer hard work and determination...........that to me is what this country is all about and how I'd like it to be for my kids.
T

I'm voting Labour for the same reasons as Gracie94 and as for getting rich quicker with the libs - the gains they've made have been at the expense of those that can least afford it and if you look at other nations who've gone the same way regarding privatisation it's not hard to see how this affects long term social wealth eg. there have been several cases of people in the US turned away from healthcare because they don't have insurance.

The economic gains we've made under the Liberals gives a short term period of wealth for those who can afford it in the first place at the expense of those who cannot now or in the future gaurantee their financial independence.

Yes - it breaks my heart to see Australia becoming a land of "have's VS have-nots" - so many more millionaires now - but so many more children living in poverty and so many people relying on welfare to live. If this is becoming "richer" I don't really want it - it won't be much of a society for my children and grandchildren to inherit.

1st Baby
Due Feb 22nd 2005

I'm not quite sure who I'll be voting for; probably Greens or Labor. As a teacher the Greens are always the ones we are advised have the best policies for education, but of course they can't hold a government by themselves.

If it was just between the two major parties though, I'd always go Labor. I just don't agree with the way Liberals go and change things without thinking of future consequences.

I was talking to my dad last night as we caught this ABC program on the two parties, and he was talking about when Labour introduced medicare it was meant to be taxed at 5% which would have been enough to cover everyone well and provide a top rate system. But the liberals wouldn't let it through and it got through at the 1 point something percent, which obviously didn't cope. Personally I'd much prefer to be taxed more for a working medicare system that covers everything (the way it was orginally intended to be), but a lot of other people don't see it that way.

The one statement I detested last night, said by John Howard, was something about he was trying to create an education system that wasn't eletist (sp?). I had to laugh at that, as they are the ones putting more into private education, where as labor's policy is about creating an equal system (the public system) that everyone can access equally. If anyone was creating eletist education it was Howard in my view.

That's just my view. ;p Who's up next?

Savanna

diary *brighteyes*
DD - Aleisha Savanna 5th July, 2002

We send our children to an independent Catholic school.
We pay school fees.
We pay our fair share of tax.
My children are allocated less money from the government than those attending government schools.
We are saving the government money.
I will fight to defend my right to choose where my children are educated and what they are taught.

One of the reasons we would scrimp and save every penny to send our children to the school we have chosen is highlighted in the above post:



I would not want my children taught by anyone who thinks the Greens have the best policy on anything, but especially education. Having visited their website, it is clear to me that they are against choice, be it in education, or other areas like farming. If their policies are not not bordering on communism, I don't know what is and explains why they are also known as the watermelon party... green on the outside, red on the inside. I shudder at the thought of them having the balance of power.





Tuzi...xxx

DD 1996
DS 1999
DS 2002

This message was edited by peskatuzi on Tuesday, 5 October 2004 @ 6:54 PM

Hot topic!
Just to add - I had a private school education - that was my parents choice and I am grateful for everything they gave me.
I don't believe that private schools should get any more funding then public schools and under libs - that's what happened. The choice to spend extra $$ on childrens education should be a personal one not a taxpayer funded one - if you choose for fork out more $$ on top of the tax you pay - so be it - but every child in this country should be allocated exactly the same amount of $ for their education / health / whatever..........I just think labour are simply suggesting this be done to make it fairer for all.
Why should the working classes subsidise the private schools? No matter if you go to Geelong Grammer or Brisbane State Highschool - your govt funded education $ should be exactly the same.

As much as I enjoyed my schooling - I doubt if I would send my kids to private schools - I'd rather have a well funded & good quality public school to send them to & I think this is a fair enough "wish" for any parent.

1st Baby
Due Feb 22nd 2005

Yep, government funding across schools should be the same. This liberal govt has given so much more to private schools it's ridiculous (not *all* private schools I know - Catholic schools oftgen being amongst the have nots!). Every child should receive an equitable amount of funding towards their education from the government, regardless of the school they attend. If parents then choose to put their children in an elite private school, then they have to be prepared to 'foot the bill' even if it does go up.

Although, I have to agree on the Green's comment. I'm a teacher and have never been 'advised' that the Green's policies are the best. All I can say is I hope people take a good look at the actual policies if that's what's being advised.

Jemstar

DS - 10/07/2002

<a href="http://lilypie.com"><img src="http://lilypie.com/days/050417/3/21/1/+10" alt="Lilypie Baby Days" border="0" /></a>

This message was edited by Jemstar on Wednesday, 6 October 2004 @ 9:46 AM

ummmmm- yeah - I didn't even know the Greens HAD an education policy......LOL And I didn't think that teachers were advised who had "best policy" for education - given the differences of opinion about education - I'm sure there are a million differences of opinion between teachers themselves!

The Greens - they're a good bunch of people and seem ernest and honest - but in my books they should just stick to what they do best - the environment and the senate. I always like the Greens to have a few senate seats along with the "keep the bastards honest" democrats and a few good quality independents...........makes me feel better about having to vote (realistically) for one of the major parties (No where I've ever voted has had viable independents)
T

1st Baby
Due Feb 22nd 2005

I consider myself a swinging voter, but I've never voted Liberal before. I just swing among the others

I agree with a lot of what gracie94 said.

I think the Liberals have strengthened our economy, but at a terrible cost in other areas....health and education being at the forefront.

I can't say I particularly like Mark Latham, but I certainly don't like John Howard and would never vote for him. To me he is someone who has proven himself completely untrustworthy.

He has twisted the truth, used fear to confuse and control people...much as he did to cheat us out of getting a republic, which I believe the majority of Aussies actually wanted. I think he has repeatedly ignored the view of the majority in remaining so heavily involved in Iraq, and while I support our soldiers in Iraq since they are there, I really think we should not have pandered to the US and should have gone in with the UN go-ahead, not on the say-so of revolting characters like George W.

I think that 'economic rationalism' has meant that humans become just a number, just a statistic, and that frightens and appalls me.

I would like to see an economy with a conscience.

I will probably vote either Green or Labor - not that I am 100% behind them in all their policies, but I could not vote for someone who has been as deceitful of Howard.

Editted to add: I think that funding private schools and offering people incentives to go to private health insurance is simply WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.

Me - 31
DH - 31
"Prume-prume" 1st baby
EDD 27th Feb 2005

This message was edited by hito on Wednesday, 6 October 2004 @ 12:23 PM

I think statements along the lines of "I pay my tax therefore it is my right to have government funding for the school of my choice" are illogical. Tax isn't about getting what we want individually - its about contributing something to the wider social good.
I also have a problem with the "I work hard/ scrimp and save/ go without etc to send my child to a private school." I realise this is to make sure people realise that private schools are not wholly comprised of people born with silver spoons in their mouths, but its just not the point. Good for you - you've chosen to send your child to what you consider to be the best school for them. It doesn't mean that you should get extra money from the federal government for it. (Any more than the council should give you money for your new car because you are leaving a free seat on the bus.)
If your local public school is not good enough for your child, shouldn't you be asking why and trying to make it better?
Socialist, economic rationalist - these aren't dirty words, they're just different ways of looking at solving the worlds problems - as idealistic as each other IMO.
I don't think Latham's education policy is that radical or even particularly pro-public, anti-private schooling. He's just evening up the balance a bit. Pragmatically speaking, public funding for private education is here to stay. I think the "targeted schools" will cope quite well without their extra funds if Labor is elected, and the lower fee private schools may well be glad of the money. Meanwhile public schools in "leafy suburbs" will have good outcomes and public schools in poorer suburbs will still have to cope with their unique set of problems.
What a rave!
Best wishes.

Is it my imagination or do others think that John H & cronies are becoming more like Joh Bejelkie-Peterson & Qld in the 70's (sp?)each term in office?.....................LOL!

(written with tongue firmly in cheek - please don't get offended!)

Im a little concerned that Lathums election promises are jsut a little 'to good to be true' especially the 'free healthcare for over 75yos.

I guess I kinda see Lathum as the 'young blood' offering a fresh outlook and new motivation to improve things - but untested and may waver under the reality of what his promises will cost.

Whereas I see Howard as a kinda 'old horse' who is stable and sure, but stuck in his own crap IYKWIM!

I dont know which way I will vote as yet, probably Lathum as his policies are more 'Aussie' but I am a little nervous as Howard has provided a secure economy adn has made the 'tough' choices with regards to refugees and the Iraq war (not that I necessarily agree with him..). I certainly dont want Lathem to bring home our troops and leave Aussies in Iraq with no defences..

ohh decisions decisions...

Will be reading this thread in the hope of getting a balanced veiw of what people think...

Jenifer (29)
David (31)
Dyllan (31/01/99)
Jayden (29/07/03)

I'll be voting Liberals, as will all my friends and family.

It's a proven fact that everytime Labor is in power, interest rates go up. I'm not just talking about the scare tactic Liberal ads on TV, the actual facts and figures to support this statement are there. This is a particularly important issue for me, as we have a $300 000 mortgage and I can remember being a child and my parents not being able to afford shoes for us because of the high interest rates. I don't want to go through that again. Actually, I'd probably have to sell my house.

Everyone knows that Liberals do a damn good job at managing our economy, then it seems that the ALP come along, get voted in and spend all the money! I think the ALP have put forward some absolutely fabulous promises and policies, but alas they are somewhat unrealistic (unless they go and spend all the money Liberals have so carefully managed). For example, their free health care for the elderly - great idea in theory, but where is the money going to come from and where are the doctors, nurses, hospital beds etc going to come from? There's a mjor shortage as it is!

The only ALP promise I agree with is that they support HECS and that's a good thing. I like their education policies, but in saying that, my husband and I aren't bludgers and we're not afraid to work hard to pay for a good education for our children. It's seems that others aren't quite as driven, they just want freebies all the time.

ALP don't support the Medicare Plus safety net, though, and that's another BIG deciding factor for me. This initiative, implemented by Liberals, has saved us thousands of dollars in the past year.

I also support the Liberals stance on illegal immigrants, that's ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS, not REFUGEES, people. There's a difference. We can't just welcome any old illegal immigrant to our country with welcome arms - My God, we'd be flooded from everywhere! Imagine the consequences! Real refugees are always welcome, though.

I also support Howard's stance on sending troops over to fight in Iraq and defend our country in any way they can. My grandfathers and great-grandfathers did not fight in both world wars so that following generations could all become hippies with no back-bones. I hate war, like most people, but we can't just turn our backs and ignore important alliances we have forged with other countries who we may need to come to our aid one day.

And, seriously, can you imagine Latham as PM??????? Where do I start! Working in Local Government, I can confirm that Latham has done a crap job at managing Councils in the past.... let alone a country! He's incompetent.

I think Howard and the Liberals have done a good job managing our country..... AND IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT!.... especially not based on the unrealistic and unachievable promises of the ALP.

QI

"Baby dust to you all!"

Me: 28
DH: 29
DS: 4
DS: MC 26/2/03 10wks
WOO-HOOO! BFP! EDD OF "DA-BEAN":17/01/05

I just recieved this email from labour shadow health minister Julia Gillards office...

Julia Gillard Shadow Minister for Health has today committed Labor to examining the issue of professional indemnity insurance for midwives as part of the already announced development of a National Maternity Policy if Labor is successful at Saturdays election. Jamie Snashall Adviser

This means that midwives would be able to practice independently, woman would be able to choose who they wanted as their maternity carer. It also means that midwives in states like the NT where midwives can't practice due to having no insurance, will be able to attend homebirths etc, and woman will be able to have a midwife of their choice!

THIS IS EXCELLENT!







Kirsten
Student Midwife
Darwin

~~~~START LIFE WITH A MIDWIFE~~~~

Ahhhh where to start. I try not to let myself look at the hot topic each month but I knew as the election drew closer I wouldn't be able to help myself.

Peskatuzi - Labor intends to give MORE money to Catholic and most independant schools than they currently receive by taking it off "elite" private schools. The upper echelon schools who charge $16,000 per year per child. Schools like Shaw and Kings in Sydney and Melbourne Grammer, Hailebury and Carey in Melbourne. I think Gracie94 and Hmum summed up my 'fairer for all' sentiments very well.



Queen Isis - Interest rates aren't controlled by the Government of the day. They are controlled by the Reserve Bank which in turn is influenced by world economies, namely the US and Asian markets. Interest rates will be what they will be, no matter who is in Govt.

The medicare safety net would not be necessary if bulk billing worked properly. The ALP aims to put a lot of money into restoring bulk billing to many GP's and other services as it should be. Doing this is actually more cost effective than the safety net which is costing this country a fortune! It also favours mostly people who use private cover (therefore those who are better off) as they see more specialist than those who don't have private cover. An example is my SIL who has a small income, is on her own with 4 children and hasn't reached the safety net yet but sees the GP quite a lot (as you can imagine). Her GP and 3 others in her area have stopped bulk billing in the last few years so she pays the gap amount for all the children. I have reached the safety net through IVF and being pg but I don't need it anything like her.

As for supporting "illegal immigrants" that is a term that the Libs and the media like to throw around. People arriving on boats seeking asylum are asylum seekers and there's a huge difference.

Sending troops to Iraq to defend our country is certainly one way to look at it but also we didn't need to get involved at all. Look at Canada, the closest country to the US and who have a great relationship with the US. They have strong leadership and they didn't get send troops and they aren't having terrorist attacks aimed at them.

As for Latham as PM. Having worked with him on a project when I worked for a Federal pollie - yes I can certainly see him as a PM. He is an intelligent, respectful man who has an irreverant sense of humour and has a great passion for our country. He has come from extremely humble beginnings and believes in looking out for everyone in the community. He ran a council when he was quite young and his worst crime there was wanting to give too much in a local area that didn't have a lot. If he becomes PM, he will have a great Treasurer in Simon Crean, so he won't be running our economy.

My whole family and many people I know will be voting for the ALP and wouldn't vote for the Libs in a pink fit. We all vote according to ideology, not the policy of the day. We vote for a better community for all. One day I may fall into those categories and need this help a lot more than I do now. Who knows what's around the corner.



Labor will ratify the Kyoto protocol immediately if they get in - thank god! Why haven't we done this before? Its not just embarassing, its plain wrong. Why doesn't Australia adhere to the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights? We pick and choose the ones we want to adhere to. Children in detention for over 3 years - its an outrage; its disgusting. We all have children, yet we let our Govt do this with little or no protest.

The other aspect I find difficult is that so many people who are otherwise kind, caring people within their own small family/communities are so self oriented when it come to voting. What am I/we going to get. Not what's fair for all; not how can we help those less fortunate then me; not how can be be a more equitable community/country?

With the things I believe in I feel I have no choice but to be an ALP supporter.

Yeah the hot topic - I like to dive into things!!!!

Cheers
Kellie


Kellie 33
DH 39
DS Jesse 30/5/02 after
9 IVF's
Twins due 24/1/05 after 2 IVF's
<a href="http://www.babysfirstsite.com"><img src="http://www.babysfirstsite.org/newtickers/ticker/4743.birthdue.png" border="0" alt="baby web sites"></a>

Hi Kellie

I found your post really interesting, and it's good to hear from someone who has actually worked with Latham.

I am conscious that my dislike of him is not very well founded - that it comes from media propaganda and a natural mistrust of almost any politician! These days it is hard to know who to believe, but my gut instinct just says one huge NO to the Liberals, and always has.

For the Kyoto protocol, I totally agree. How embarassing that we have hummed and hawed over this for so long. Every time I think about it I get an urge to start printing up 'Sign Kyoto NOW!' bumper stickers or something.


Me - 31
DH - 31
"Prume-prume" 1st baby
EDD 27th Feb 2005

QI - you have obviously always been a lib voter and believe unquestioningly the liberal propaganda machine - no one will change your mind!
However, I just wanted to add - as was pointed out in the Courier Mail by a reader today - that actually - when averaged out - interested rates under libs and labour over the past 20 years are about even! further to this - like someone else said - interest rates are more related to international economy then ours and certainly not decided by the govt.
The only reason that Libs have been able to "balance" the budget are the huge cuts they have made to essential services i.e. health, education.......and via selling off our national assets i.e Telstra.

They were also saved by the housing & renovation boom, which was fueled by post Sept 11 - people not wanting to travel, hence, we all went berserk on our homes!! Human psyche being what it is - we all "stayed home and made our place nicer or upgraded..."

As for "illegal immigrants"......... I just don't understand why and when Australians became so MEAN??? We are a nation of bloody immigrnts! The way I see it - if I was living in Afganistan, Iraq, Iran etc etc etc - if I had a good brain in my head - I would want to escape to a better life for myself and my children as well! Surely people who have the gumption and guts to get themselves across continents & on a leaky boat and risk life and limb to find a better life are the sort of people this country needs?? These are the sorts of people our grandparents and great..great grandparents were too - mine came out of England & Ireland in the hulls of leaky boats becuase of starvation and persecution.......my husbands post WW2 Europe......what if the govt of the day had called them illegal and turned them away??? It's no different today - but is it simply that these people are not "white and christian"?? Amazing how quickly white Zimbarbwieans (sp?) or Sth Africans seem to make it though......hmmmmm.....

War - don't assume that all who have relatives who fought in war are okay with it! My father is a WW2 vet as are uncles - my mums favourite brother was KIA and I have grown up around war vets and POWs.........their reasons to go to war were totally different from todays situation. They knew why they were going and they went for a legitimate reason and to actually protect our country from invasion.......Iraq was hardly about to invade us.......like many believe - I think we have enough to worry about in our own region without seeking out biffs elsewhere! I firmly believe in the US alliance -but that does not mean we have to follow them into every conflict in every part of the world without question......the citizens of the USA are as divided as us over this war.....so it's not really "us v them" as many Aussies & Americans think alike on this issue.

Over 75s healthcare - the way I see it (I am a nurse who works in our public system)....if we could get older people treated quickly when they have health problems - then this would speed up the whole system and certainly do something towards improving our "bed block" Currently, so many of them wait so long for their treatment that by the time they get there their health has deteriorated further and they then need WAY more resources & $$ then they originally needed!

It's good that someone has personal experience of Latham - I didn't like him before this year and I'm generally a swinging voter - but the more I hear and see of him the more I respect him. I think he would make a damn fine leader - look at how well the ALP has done in the short time he's been leader - no bickering, united etc - that isn't a fluke. He has learned from his mistakes - anyone who's been in politics for 20 years and admits no blunders is surely a liar! Besides - life experience counts for a lot in my book - and he does have an economics degree - so he's not stupid He will also have plenty of "advisors" and experienced people around him - the PM doesn't act alone. I like the fact that he's a young man with a young family, a smart and progressive wife (who is also highly intelligent and driven) from the working class who has a mortgage - like the rest of us. He has a personal & vested interest in running the country well - not that Johnny doesn't - but I'm sure he's well set up financially by now, with plenty of assets & $$ to ride out any tough times.

Too long a post - sorry - I will go to sleep now and dream of the better society I hope we can become...
T

1st Baby
Due Feb 22nd 2005

Neither do I think they should get MORE funding than government schools - that is ridiculous. Private schools under liberal DO NOT get more funding than public schools.


If that were the case, the government would be forking out a LOT more money than it already does... The statistics are that Government schools receive 79% of the funding pie to educate 68% of the students, therefore non-government schools receive 21% of the funding pie to educate 32% of the students. (source: Independent Schools Council of Australia website)

The education policy is not the only policy that will determine my vote. Although it is something I feel is very important because I believe we should all have the choice of where to educate our children and what they are taught.


It is not that my local public school is not good enough for my child, it is that I want my children to receive an authentic Catholic education. I really can't see the Government providing that and nor should they.

I may go opening another can of worms here but I’m not sure everyone should have an automatic right to free education.

as the above post highlights. Perhaps if government education was means tested, the government schools in poorer areas could be better resourced.

I do, however, agree wholeheartedly that our community should provide free education, health and cheap housing to those who need it. Absolutely no question at all.

Well… I need to go to bed!… I have enjoyed reading everyone’s posts… Only two sleeps to go!


Tuzi...xxx

DD 1996
DS 1999
DS 2002

Tuzi
The "elite" private schools in question get way too much funding. Why should they get any. The Kings School in Sydney has a museum and a shooting range. Thats a little bit more than nice sports ovals and a camping spot up at Ulladulla. Why on earth should they get our tax dollars? They obviously don't need it. Under the present Govt their funding has gone up and up each year. The ALP are not talking about Catholic schools. Under the ALP policy Catholic and the majority of independant private schools will actaully get a bigger slice of the pie than the schools that charge in excess of $16,000 per child per year.

No one has ever talkied about taking away your choice. This policy isn't aimed at you. Its aimed at areas that have shocking schools and taking away money from the schools that don't need it and injecting it into schools that do.

By saying you don't think everyone has the right to a free education, I'm assuming you mean for example those from the really wealthy areas? Otherwise you've lost me.

Cheers
Kellie

Kellie 33
DH 39
DS Jesse 30/5/02 after
9 IVF's
Twins due 24/1/05 after 2 IVF's
<a href="http://www.babysfirstsite.com"><img src="http://www.babysfirstsite.org/newtickers/ticker/4743.birthdue.png" border="0" alt="baby web sites"></a>

I agree with what QueenIsis said. I too ( as will all of my family ) be voting Liberal for similar reasons.

For me personally, the PHI rebate and the Medicare Safety Net are major issues.

Paula
DS - Zachary, 3 years (Landau Kleffner Syndrome)
LKS takes away a childs words, sign language gives them a voice

I note a lot of support for Labor, however some seems uniformed, for example:

- Labor State Govt have sold off a lot of public assets to a far greater degree then the Federal Govt. The current Federal Govt has realy only sold half of Telstra, whereas Hawke/Keating sold off the Commonwealth Bank.

As such, both sides of politic have been selling assets, which is probably wrong, however you cannot say one has done it more than another

- For medicare, we recently had our second baby, we have recieved a lot more money this time around due to the Safety Net, which Labor never had.

-With Medicare Gold, for each place an over 75 takes at a hospital for elective surgery, increases the waiting list for those under 75 as there is only a finite number of beds, doctors and nurses.

- Under Labor single income families in the majority of instances will be worse off, shouldn't families have choice whether there is one or two income earners. The single income family should not be penalised at the expense of two income families.

- Someone went on about haves and have nots, under Latham, he encourages spite against those who aspire and try to have more. He is trying to re-create a class divide.

- With Greens, one must understand that the two member of the NSW Upper House previously where associated with the Communist Party and the Socialist Party. Additionally, Greens have many policies that are anti-family such as there drug's policy, etc, they also have some very way out policies that many are unaware of. The best description of the greens I read in the SMH is they are like a watermelon, green on the outside and very much red on the inside.

-It should be noted that anything that the Govt gives us back has to be paid for by increased taxes, nothing is for free

- Those so called swinging voters need to look at history under Labor. Under Whitlam, high inflation (17 or 18%), high unemployment; high interest rates; substantial increase in debt. Under Hawke/Keating, high interest rates (upto 18%), high inflation, high unemployment, the recession we had to have (due to bad management), etc, etc.

Vote for anyone other than Labor or Greens

I will be voting for labor tomorrow

Mark1 I don't agree with the single income families being worse off under a labor government. DF and I are a single income family and if labor wins tomorrow under their 'better family payment' we will be $20 a week better off and $650 a year and we are definately below the $52000 mark. So under the coalition we missed out on any tax cuts. The $600 payment that the liberals introduced is a "bandaid" and most of it is used to pay off family debt that you unknowingly incure due to the cut of of $33000. Labor is increasing that to $50000 therefore reducing or getting rid of the debt trap. It will also allow so many women and men go back to parttime work without losing most or all of their benefits.

I don't believe that The Greens drug policy is anti family :confuse: that is just my opinion. I think it will decrease drug related crime and also make it alot safer for users. Not everyone agrees with people using drugs, but if someone I cared for chose to do it I would prefer they recieved 'safe' drugs which were dispensed and monitored, instead of buying from dodgy characters.

I believe that labors school policy is wonderful, alot of the schools in the area I grew up in would be seen as underprivelaged ie no airconditioning, out of date books, few or no computers and old dangerous play equipment. Increased funding to these schools would help the community and children out alot.

Saving the old growth forests is something that should be achieved before the damage is to great to reverse. I can understand why the timber union is so angry, but they will eventually have to be retrained anyway....What happens when they have chopped all the trees down

Take care everyone

Me
DF
DS 22/4/04

<a href="http://lilypie.com"><img src="http://lilypie.com/baby1/050422/2/3/1/+8" alt="Lilypie Baby Days" border="0" /></a>

This message was edited by Bubblez on Saturday, 9 October 2004 @ 12:55 AM

Well, that's really the whole point isn't? The government *should* be forking out more money for education, in an *equitable* (meaning fair) manner.

That is funding each school according to its needs - it's not necessarily about *exactly* the same amount being spent on every school, but it's about funding each school appropriately so that a quality *equitable* education can be provided. IMO this hasn't happened with the Federal education budget, and some of the proposed policies will only make the problem worse! Under this Federal govt, elite schools have been rewarded, and others have been left out in the cold.

I mean how equitable is the proposed policy of funding schools according to literacy & numeracy standards? You can see what'll happen there - the 'leafy greens' and private schools will get the lion's share and the schools in poor socioeconimc areas with hundreds of problems contributing towards literacy and numeracy levels will get poorer and their problems worse - there's nothing equitable about that,is there??? Or should we *reward* the rich and *punish* the poor a bit more????

And all this from someone who hasn't even decided who they're voting for !

Jemstar

DS - 10/07/2002

<a href="http://lilypie.com"><img src="http://lilypie.com/days/050417/3/21/1/+10" alt="Lilypie Baby Days" border="0" /></a>

[b][color=blue] ELECTION DAY

This of course, is a huge event for Australia.
Now the anxious hours waiting for the result...

Hi

I know we have all voted now, so I am a little late on the topic. But I would just like to add this. Why are people so blo@#y concerned with a surplus budget! Do people even know what that means? I always look at it as if I would my own budget, sure I could save money and have a surplus of money if say 'I didn't feed my children' like Howard takes money away from health/education etc. Anyone can do that! Also say you buy a house your borrowing money, so you are in defecit, but you have a house that is going to be yours so its worth it... I think its not whether or not a budget is in surplus or not but why it is, and how the money is spent!!

Anyway we all know Howard will win (I hope am I wrong though).

Be


Me 25
DH 29
Mother of Jade 27 May 2004
http://www.babiesonline.com/imagegallery/g...?be=j/jadebiggs

Well we now know the results of the election.

While I have mixed views on all the parties and their candidates, I'm not happy with the result.

I think Liberal have played on peoples' fear and selfishness. They will continue to widen the gap between the 'haves' and the 'have nots'.
They will continue to manipulate people by playing on our fear and selfishness - it's what they do best. John Howard will continue to 'omit the truth' when anything a bit dodgy goes on. He is not someone to be trusted.

Sure, we all want low interest rates for our mortgage, we all want decent health and schools for our kids, and a secure nation.

Anyone I talk to who supports Liberal goes on about how it is better for them (financially), better for their family (financially), safer for the country (now).

To me this seems short-sighted. I think in the long run, we will have privatised and sold off all this countries assets (I know Labor are guilty of this too), and made our education system a mirror of the 'user-pays' system in the US (without the big scholarships system to at least ensure talented kids from poor backgrounds get a chance - admittedly they have to be good at football or basketball, but at least they have a shot for that).

We are heading further down the track of the US in terms of health care, and we all know how wonderful it is to have to take out hefty insurance anytime we visit the US in case they leave us to die on some hospital step, let alone live with that every day. I think the continued erosion of Medicare and bulk billing is an absolute tragedy in this country, and a huge mistake.

And in terms of safety/security for our country, we assisted the US in undermining the power of the UN, exposed ourselves as one of the top targets for terrorist acts on this planet, and went into a war that has 'suspicious' motives to say the least.
Does anyone remember the day it was reported on the news that the US had suddenly switched from seeking Osama Bin Laden in Afghanistan to declaring war on Saddam Hussein/Iraq? I just sat there and thought "WTF???" Do they think we are all so dumb we just think anyone in the Middle East will do as a target for 9/11?! The chief motive behind this war was certainly not to "liberate the people" of Iraq!!!! Nor was it pure vengeance after 9/11, but it suited them fine to lead everyone to feel that a vendetta was a good and right and just cause.
I can't believe that politicians can sully and tarnish words like 'liberate' and 'freedom' via their propaganda, it's just disgusting.

I'm not a communist, far from it (seems to be the implication put on anyone who is not completely right-wing these days, now that the Democrats have lost relevance). I just hate to see us becoming a nation of selfish sh*ts like the US (sorry for huge generalisation - my DH is American, so I don't have it in for all of them, just the ones that voted for Bush).

Anyway, I'll get off my soapbox.



Me - 31
DH - 31
"Prume-prume" 1st baby
EDD 27th Feb 2005

This message was edited by hito on Sunday, 10 October 2004 @ 9:11 AM

Yeah. Sigh. Don't look so happy John. We don't love you that much.

There has been some great debate on this topic and its been really genuine, intelligent, informed and interesting for those of us reading and participating but I have to object to Mark1 joining and posting only once with some skewed and ill informed information. Whoever that member is who joined as Mark1 to post that one post is a coward and not in the spirit of EB.

Sorry but it had to be said.

Thanks to everyone else who entered into this debate in the true spirit of EB. I love this site!

Cheers
Kellie xo

Kellie 33
DH 39
DS Jesse 30/5/02 after
9 IVF's
Twins due 24/1/05 after 2 IVF's
<a href="http://www.babysfirstsite.com"><img src="http://www.babysfirstsite.org/newtickers/ticker/4743.birthdue.png" border="0" alt="baby web sites"></a>

Yeah - I'm very depressed too..............Australia is just not the culture I thought it was and I despair at my child growing up in this "Americanized" "each person for themself" Oz.

Seems Australians (majority)are selfish and only want to think of #1 and "what will I get out of this govt?" what about the big picture?

Telstra will now be sold off and all rural Aussies will lose BIG TIME - urban Aussies - well - get used to higher and higher telecommunications costs.

Tasmania's old growth forests will disappear -except for the bits that have been "saved" but are inaccessible anyway - great........well done......in a generation those same families kids will all be looking for work anyway................

Meanness - we are now forced to just look about for ourselves and not give a rats about our neighbours and communitities - we'll have to pay more and more for our individual healthcare - work out how to work harder to be able to give our kids a decent education.................our labour market will be deregulated - the rich will get richer and those poor bastards who don't have enough power or education to negotiate good AWAs for themselves will end up working 60 hours a week for crap money and no perks.........."haves" will drive by in their new cars and say "well - serves them right - if they just worked harder they'd get out of their mess"................I despair.

If you've ever lived in the USA (and I have) sure - great place - but if you don't have $$ you're stuffed! That's what we are going to become.......we've sold our souls and what our parents and grandparents strove and fought wars for.........good luck Australia - we have got the government that we deserve.



PS: I'm okay though! I got uni educated for free & had parents who afforded private school and could help me get set up - have good job, so does hubby - we're on the way up - we have investments & property and private insurance, a new car to drive...........we'll do fine under this great system.........but why do I feel SO, SO SAD, uninspired and empty inside????

1st Baby
Due Feb 22nd 2005

Gracie94

You have summed up exactly how I am feeling too.

For the next three years I will be under the total mercy of John Howard and his agenda. I am currently at University and we survive thanks to welfare from centrelink.

What I am most worried about is the total control in the senate.

Alexis xxx



DS Jude 13.05.03

I note KellieC comments.

I don't think it is in the spirit of EB to personally attack someone for a difference of opinion as you have done.

I may have only recently joined, however, my wife has been a member for some time and I have read the forum from time to time.

I felt when there was such bias in this post, that some comment from the other end of the spectrum was needed.

In any event, thank goodness that the Australian people were not swayed by the views of KellieC et al.

I wish that everyone could see it the way KellieC has, when did social justice become unimportant?
And everyone is so worried about interest rates etc... well who will give a rats if they are low when we have to pay for all our health, schooling etc... thats where all our money will go now!


Monika...mum to<BR>DS Riley 24~11~01<BR>DD Linnèa 12~6~04<BR>

I totally agree with you Mark1 and was shocked at KellieC's comments. The spirit of EB is to offer your opinion with honesty , integrity and respect for others...not only if your are a Labour/Greens supporter! I didn't bother adding my comment or opinions to this original thread because of the obvious bias, but I was so relieved to read your comments.

I respect KellieC's and others opinions but I did not respect her not giving you the right to yours.
Anyway great result for Australia,

I am still in shock over the result. I can't believe that Australia has chosen to re-elect an uncaring, lying, dollar worshipping and dangerous government. The control they will have in the senate terrifies me.

[img:http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0YQAAAA4bcVZ2qCOcJkQbq3cCHMFe9GPju7o9!lHD*ATfYkB7KRoVgDpw08!1EpEZT*aPaHGEo15l1WJ
b1pEcwt0Pf3wc738EkEA1C1mMammpgf8DdYCWAVWavSSH1OyXqE62cV2pba9OxiOnnF1D*Q/IMG_0243.JPG?dc=4675492288857135971/img]

Hey Mark, maybe you should check under your bed tonight.

My sincerest apologies to Mark1 if in fact you are a new member who is going to engage with the rest of us in different threads on EB and you were just having your say.

Mark1 & Sauseelula I don't think this thread has been at all biased. There have been all sides of the debate taking part here, it just so happens that the left side posted more often. They are obviously not the majority of the nation, so you don't have to worry.

Mark1 I was objecting to the tone of the some of the info you posted which as I said before I don't feel is not in the spirit of EB. I'm sorry, I could be totally wrong but I thought EB was a website where people could suport each other, discuss topics together and give their views, all in an environment where they felt safe and within the EB community.

I think mudslinging in the nature of -



This is very contentious and shows your agenda to be very different to that of a genuine EB member discussing who they may or may not vote for. Many people may have no problem with the Socialist Party or even the long outdated Communist Party. Many people also feel the Greens drug policy is extremely family friendly - especially if it saved lives!



I don't know what you mean by "so called" swinging voters and I find the whole tone of this quote paronising, saying that they need to look at anything. We had already discussed earlier about interest rates and I wasn't the only person to talk about the fact that the Govt of the day has little impact over interest rates, but that the Reserve Bank acts on the Asian and US markets and the current state of the world economy.




I have to say I think this is quite nasty and a huge call, especially as Mark Latham aspires to send his children to a private school and is aiming to pay off his mortgage like the rest of us. He is trying to create a more equitable system with both reinstating Medicare properly (and taking away the safety net) and taking the extra funding from the "elite" top 2% of private schools and redistributing it.

The opinions you expressed about the safty net has endured long discussion on this and other threads about how it relates to the entire community not just ourselves in the now. It's ok though, you'll still be looked after now Howard is back in. Lets hope your circumstances don't change in the near future and you find out how Medicare had really been decimated.

At no time did ANY of us say anything like -


I have never on this or any other website told anyone who they should vote for and I don't believe this is the forum for it.

Other comments that I won't quote here re: increased taxes and selling of assets are all your opinion and of course you are entitled to it.

If you are in fact a genuine EB participant we will no doubt see you in other threads. If these are your only posts, then its a shame that you felt the need on this website of all websites, to get involved. Please feel free to PM me rather than drag other into this (by the way I've noticed your PM is disabled - why would that be?)

Thanks to all the girls who have supported me in relation to Mark1 and my views in general and comiserations to those of us who are sad and scared at what the next 4 years will bring. Maybe I'm being a naive but I don't think the Australian community is becoming more selfish and mean. I just hope they weren't sure of Mark Latham and wanted to ride out the general economic boom a bit longer.

Cheers and have a great day!!
Kellie

Kellie 33
DH 39
DS Jesse 30/5/02 after
9 IVF's
Twins due 24/1/05 after 2 IVF's
<a href="http://www.babysfirstsite.com"><img src="http://www.babysfirstsite.org/newtickers/ticker/4743.birthdue.png" border="0" alt="baby web sites"></a>

Hi Kellie,
I just wanted to say that reading your messages here has given me some hope for the Australian people. I know that sounds dramatic, but after this last re-election of the Howard government I have been feeling completely depressed (Although that is probably partly pregnancy hormones). It really worries me that Australia keeps voting for him. It worries me that so many people seem so massively uninformed and seem to believe whatever is fed to them.

I know this is going to sound strange, but it's made me feel really isolated, and it has been an absolute pleasure to read your posts. You seem to be a really well informed and intelligent woman.

I would also like to address something that Mark C said in his initial post :

- For medicare, we recently had our second baby, we have recieved a lot more money this time around due to the Safety Net, which Labor never had.

After reading this I am assuming that you have private health insurance and are seeing a private Ob?

3 1/2 years ago I had my first baby. I undertook shared care with my GP and the hospital obs/midwife. I did this because I can't afford a private Ob. And I still can't. I had two ultrasounds, one at a private hospital, which included the option of getting a video. I also had to have an emergency C-section and my daughter was in Special Care Nursery for a month. Do you know how much my medical care cost me the first time around? $0! That's right. NOTHING.

This time around it costs me $15 per visit to my GP above the medicare rebate. And if I want to have a video of my ultrasound at 20 weeks its going to cost $160. I realise that to someone like you this probably doesn't sound like much, but to my family it's a lot. The Safety Net you think is so great is nothing but a bandaid for a system which shouldn't have been stuffed up in the first place. As far as I can tell the only people it really benefits are people in higher income brackets. The rest of us hardly benefit at all.

Rebecca
(elahluna)

<a href="http://lilypie.com"><img src="http://lilypie.com/baby3/011006/3/0/1/+10" alt="Lilypie 3rd Birthday" border="0" /></a><BR><a href="http://lilypie.com"><img src="http://lilypie.com/days/050401/2/8/1/+10" alt="Lilypie Baby Days" border="0" /></a>

Many Labor politicians have supported private school funding in the past - they tend to support Catholic, low-income schools more though. The funding is not entirely unfair when many of the parents sending their children to those schools also tend to pay a much higher proportion of their income in taxes. What irks me though is when the principals of those schools say "some of our parents are really struggling to send their children here - they are living in two bedroom houses and driving ten year old cars". What that says is basically " These parents have been educated at schools like ours but for various reasons ( wouldn't have anything to do with an elitist education that views money-making as grubby of course) do not earn a high income. Whilst we would never accept the children of the chronically low-income, average Australian we must demand state money for those of us who belong here but cannot afford it". Generally, these would be the children of those who went on to become musicians, historians, poets, arts-grant funded artists etc. There is nothing wrong with supporting these kids but it ought to be through private (and hopefully merit-based) scholarships and fee reductions. And just what is wrong with a ten year old car anyway?

Ha, ha - mseshadri - you put a real smile on my face! Rebecca, Kellie - feel your sentiments too.........it IS good to see others have passion and concerns. I'm gradually trying to pull myself out of my "post election depression" and just learn to accept the majority decision..........
Oh - just wanted to say to mses - not all of us who went to "exclusive private schools" are w*n*ers My parents spent every cent they had sending us all to great private schools (they are now broke and living on pension in their old age because of it really) and I respect their decision and agree they did give me a great start in life and I was well educated........none of us have become a low income "artists" - I have one brother who can afford to send his kids to private school - but this is a good thing for them as there are other "issues" in their family and I agree with their decision. My hb and I? Well - not sure I would want to or bother. I found being a "poor kid" at a rich school VERY hard to bear and I think a lot of parents who scrimp and save to pay the fees don't realise how hard this is on their kids as, to a teenager, the school doesn't often mean a lot, but what clothes you wear and car your parents drive and "extracirricular" activities you can do - make a difference. Quite honestly - I would have just preferred to go somewhere where I could fit in with the other kids better - those years were a time of great angst for me and whilst I acknowledge the great things it did for me.........I wouldn't put my kids through it.

Despite my "priviledged" schooling - I really would prefer to just see the public school system really improved and well funded, so parents did feel they HAVE to use the private system to get their kids a good education. If you have excess money or certain beliefs - fair enough I guess & this really would then be "your choice" - for the average Aussie, it would be wonderful if we had high quality, well funded education for all our young people - funded by we taxpayers.................besides - I also know (from looking at schoolfriends and reading lots of biographies) that parents who think their child will achieve highly in life just becuase they pay a fortune for their education are deluding themselves! LOTS of very priviledged kids bomb bigtime in life - and lots of "stateschool" kids make it bigtime. The more important ingredients are: an encouraging homelife and parents who encourage and stimulate a love learning and trying new things, a bit of adversity helps stimulate a competitive instinct (hence the phenomena of children of achievers not achieving at all)an ability to learn to cope from lifes disappointments and be able to set goals and work towards them whilst staying positive...............a high self esteem does wonders.
I could go on and on! Sorry!

1st Baby
Due Feb 22nd 2005

Gracie94 - so well put! I think being pregnant we have to move on from this election and regain our positive outlook for a better future and community for our children.

It seems I had a very similar schooling to you. My single mother worked 2 jobs to put me through the best school she possibly could and I always felt like the poor relative. I would like to send my children to a private school if I think they will really benefit from it and if its not too detrimental to the family. We'll look at each child on their merits and what our situation is. If the public system was in a better state (as it should be) I wouldn't even hesitate in sending them.

Great to hear your thoughts!
Cheers
Kellie

Kellie 33
DH 39
DS Jesse 30/5/02 after
9 IVF's
Twins due 24/1/05 after 2 IVF's
<a href="http://www.babysfirstsite.com"><img src="http://www.babysfirstsite.org/newtickers/ticker/4743.birthdue.png" border="0" alt="baby web sites"></a>

It seems to me that it is now a "radical lefty-type thing" to support government funded and run health systems and education systems. Oh and apparently its only "intellectuals" who are anti-war in Iraq. What sensible Australians are really concerned about are their mortgages.
I think I'll have to start signing myself "radical lefty intellectual and artist"!
Strangely enough, I have a mortgage, my children share a bedroom and my husband and I share an eighteen year old car. Perhaps I should go talk to the local private schools and see if they'll do me a deal....
Perhaps I should get deeper in debt and buy some new things so I can understand what these sensible Australians are on about.....

Gracie94 has said it all I think. Thats exactly how I feel.

So what does John Howard have to say to the 5,000,000 of us who didnt vote for him?
nothing?
Terri

If you want to lose the stress and find some interesting and funny sites try this one http://www.faceoftomorrow.com/morph.asp . It is really cool

I think Viv C sums up my thoughts on it.


Ray 28 DP Kate 31 DD Savannah Jade - Born 17/10/03