There has been a call for ethics-based education to be the option for those who do not choose for their children to study a religion.
The Education Minister, Andrew Refshauge, said that there was no scope to implement this, and that, "there has been no community-wide call."

What do you think about ethics and religion in schools ?

Should ethics-based education involve religion ?

Should "multi-faith" religion be taught to those who choose 'religion' but are of no specific faith themselves ?

Should "multi-faith" religion and ethics-based education also be taught to those children attending a non-secular (religious) school ?

What does the school that your children attend/will attend provide? - and are you happy with it ?


(Some thinking points have been given below)


[quote]A curious philosophy: religious education in schools
- Dr Simon Longstaff

A version of this article was first published in Sydney's Child in August 2004


Every week, for an hour, a selection of New South Wales state primary school students sit idle. Some children are required to wait outside the Principal's office (innocent but occupying the place traditionally reserved for the seriously naughty). Others might be found in the school library - perhaps reading, perhaps colouring in, perhaps ... It is called 'private study' - and its value is at best variable as it may include activities that do little or nothing to advantage these children.

My attention was first drawn to the plight of these children by the Chairman of the P&C at a local government school. He was one of a number of parents who had decided that they did not want their children to attend Special Religious Education (SRE) - commonly called 'scripture'. And he was troubled by the fact that there seemed to be no worthwhile alternative available to parents who cared about the ethical formation of their children - but preferred not to see this linked to a specific religious tradition. "Surely," he asked, "isn't this something that an organisation like St James Ethics Centre should help to address?"

Those not familiar with the work of St James Ethics Centre might think it odd that we should be concerned to challenge the status quo. After all, wouldn't an organisation with a 'saint' and 'ethics' in its name be unambiguously in favour of SRE? To put things in perspective, the Centre's name is an indication of its origin in the community of St James' Anglican Church in King Street, Sydney. However, the genius of the founders was to recognise that if ever it were to succeed, then the organisation would need to be genuinely independent and open to people of all faiths and no faith at all. So the Ethics Centre is not a religious organisation, but a public benevolent institution with open membership which is committed to promoting the 'examined life'.

Somewhat naively (as it now turns out to be) I assumed that it would be a fairly simple matter to develop and then offer an introduction to ethics for primary school students that could sit alongside 'scripture' - allowing parents an alternative that would still address questions about the nature of a 'good life' - but without specific religious overtones. At least then the children need not sit idle. But why were they disengaged from meaningful activity in the first place?

The immediate explanation for why the children sit idle is that their parents have decided not to approve attendance at classes in SRE. The deeper reason is to be found in an agreement struck between the Christian churches and the State in the mid to late Nineteenth Century. Until that time, the churches had enjoyed a monopoly in the provision of education - and they remained a potent political force. When the secular state made a bid to offer public education, agreement was reached that this be done on the condition that an hour a week be reserved exclusively for 'scripture' (SRE). The churches were given absolute discretion in terms of what should be taught during this time and in the selection of teachers for this period. The usual qualifications would not apply - placing considerable responsibility in the hands of religious authorities.

While it is almost certain that a clear majority of parents would have approved of this settlement at the time, the drift towards today's more secular society has meant that an increasing number of parents do not favour the attendance of their children at scripture - making the need to examine the alternative all the more pressing.

While the Education Act 1990 No 8 both legislates for the provision of religious education and the right of parents to opt out (a reflection of provisions on parental rights in the UN Declaration of Human Rights), the School Manual on Educational Management mandates that "Students not attending SRE will be appropriately cared for at school. This may include private study, but not timetabled lessons or scheduled school activities." And thus the problem arises. Successive State governments have ensured that schools not offer any useful alternative to 'scripture' - leaving an increasing number of children to while away an hour a week as best they can.

It is easy to understand why the "no useful alternative" provision has been put in place. On the one hand, it might be argued that students should not be lured away from a brief period of religious formation. It is hard enough for most religions to maintain their place in the lives of people without there being further challenges to their prerogative. However, there are also sound ethical arguments for holding that it would be unfair if one group of students were to gain an academic advantage over their peers by undertaking mainstream studies during the hour reserved for scripture.

Yet, it is not the case that the only alternative to scripture are lessons drawn from the core curriculum. What of a non-religious introduction to ethical thinking and perspectives on what might count as a 'good' life? The teachers of special religious education are presumably dealing with more than principles of theology. They are almost certain to be addressing questions about how we are to live. Why should students be denied access to these important lessons simply because their parents choose not to support religious formation in state schools?

Indeed, the Rawlinson Committee established to review Religion in Education in New South Wales made a number of recommendations in its Report produced in 1980. These included improved options for students whose parents elected to opt out of 'scripture'. Recommendation 42 states "that pupils withdrawn from Special Religious Education be provided with opportunities for purposeful secular learning which should, however be of such a nature as to avoid conflict of choice, either for the parents or for the pupils receiving Special Religious Education". Indeed, Rawlinson went on to observe that, "ethics, the study of morals and values, is valuable for its own sake and that people can be moral without being religious, in that they do not need to describe to religious beliefs in order to sustain carefully thought-out moral principles."

Let me be clear, in considering this matter we have no interest in diminishing the extent to which people participate in religious education. Nor would we want to set up a program that is seen to 'compete' for the interest and engagement of students. Religious and spiritual formation are important public and private goods that ought to be fostered. But in the face of parental choice not to have their children attend 'scripture' are we to do nothing about further the opportunities for ethical development? Or could we complement the work of the churches and other religious organisations offering special religious education? Could we work to ensure that all students flourish at school and that no child is denied the opportunity to devote a focused hour each week to consider the deeper questions about how we are to live.

On this basis, St James Ethics Centre approached the Premier of New South Wales with a submission proposing the development of an 'ethics based' program to be made available to primary students whose parents might choose that their children not attend 'scripture'. What we proposed is a program with the following aims; being to:

Provide a secular complement for the discussion of the ethical dimension of students' lives

Offer a secure, non-judgmental space to explore the question, "What ought one to do?"

Introduce the language of ethics and in doing so, to provide the tools to survey the values and principles we live by

Incorporate an ethical dimension to the students' decision making

Inspire an appreciation of virtues and ideals

Develop the intellectual capacity and the personal attitudes needed for participating in ethical reflection and action

Encourage an openness towards important personal and public issues

Introduce dialogue as a means of resolving ethical issues

Develop students' ability to identify the relevant stakeholders and thoroughly explore, among other things, the consequences of proposed resolutions to the ethical dilemmas which they are considering

In short, to deepen the ethical sense of the future generation


The NSW Premier, Bob Carr, passed our letter and submission on to the Minister for Education, Andrew Refshauge, who responded by claiming (incorrectly in our view) that there was no scope to implement what we had proposed. Amongst other things, he claimed that, "there has been no community wide call" for such a course. Having addressed this issue with the NSW Parents and Citizens, we are sure that Mr Refshauge has underestimated parental interest in this matter.

There is, of course, an underlying question to be answered in relation to the Ethics Centre's response to the challenge posed by the Chair of the local P&C committee. Some claim that an ethical life cannot be lived (or even properly understood) outside the framework of a belief in God more generally, or the teachings of a particular religion more specifically. If this is so, then any attempt to offer an introduction to ethics (free from theology) would seem to be futile. However, informed opinion on this question is divided with some thinking that the engagement in an 'examined life' is a precondition for authentic, religious commitment rather than its consequence. This is a deep question better left open for another time.

What matters at the moment is the plight of the children who sit idle for an hour a week - waiting at the Government's pleasure.
http://www.ethics.org.au/things_to_read/ar...ticle_0383.shtm
[/quote]

[quote]

Scripture, or "special religious education" is taught for about 40 minutes a week in about 70 per cent of primary schools.

One religion popular with middle-class parents is Baha'i, with 2100 NSW children enrolled in 132 scripture classes.

Principals observe that the Baha'is' concern for world peace and unity appeal even to non-religious parents.

Forty of Bilgola Plateau Public School's 400 students go to Baha'i classes to learn about Abraham, Buddha, Moses, Krishna, Zoroaster, Jesus and Muhammad, the "messengers of God" who preceded the Baha'i founder,Baha'u'llah.
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/06/24/...l?oneclick=true
[/quote]

[/quote]
Ethics, religion and school curriculums
August 22, 2003

The Governor-General's call for more religious education misses the mark.

Australia's new Governor-General, Michael Jeffery, courted controversy this week by suggesting that more religious education should be taught in schools. In a speech to religious affairs reporters, Major-General Jeffery said the challenge for our community was "to try to live by the simple, lasting values the great religions teach". He said educators should attempt to instil in children "the notion that society benefits if we live an ethically good life, including the recognition that with rights go obligations; to each other, to our communities and to our nation".

What has raised eyebrows has been his suggestion that a greater emphasis on religious education would improve the nation's ethical standards. General Jeffery's critics have pointed out that ethics-based education does not need to be religious to be of value.
www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/ 08/21/1061434983395.html?from=storyrhs
[/quote]

I dont know if they teach it in SA schools, but I KNOW they teach it in QLD ones.

My mum tells a story of when I was in about grade 1 or 2 and came home and told her Mrs Coal (religion teacher) told me I was full of sin (parents sins visited on child theory or something). My mother, and I hold the belief that each child is born absolutely perfect and pure and its up to society, parents and life to make them imperfect.

And there is nothing in this world that could possibly convince me that my daughter is anything less than perfect and pure.

Mum made sure I wasnt in religion classes anymore.

Personally, I class myself as 'spiritual' which I feel classifies me as someone who cares and had morals and values and ethics. I dont believe in God as such and dont particularly like labling 'it' 'God' since I find that fairly limited. It does however let people wrap their brains around the conecpt of higher power tho, so I will probably use it when DD is old enough to be asking questions like that.

I will however, be making damn certain she's not in any religion classes that are going to tell her she's full of sin, and shall frighten her with hell if she misbehaves.

I grew up near a 'religious' family and they tormented their children whenever they were at all bad saying they were going to go to hell and were sinful children. I disagree with that.

I think it's up to parents to chose a values system for their children. I will not be raising DD in any of them as such. I will learn about the different religions and beliefs and educate her about all of them, and let her chose what she feels right with.

I think that even HAVING religion classes in public schools, and only having maybe 2 choices is discrimination in itself. To me it implys that the Australian Government is against the unsupported faiths.

It reminds me of the saying "If you dont have enough to share with EVERYONE, dont have it" I feel that its unfair to teach the studies of really one major faith and completely ignore the Buddist, Hindu, Islam, (no fights now plese) and thats all that springs to mind right now.......

I think its wrong to only give one view on a situation.

Ethics based education should be about ETHICS. Almost all the religions teach love, doing the right thing, and being a good person, if you go back to their most basic principles, so I guess ethics are religious if you look at it like that, but I dont think it should be given in a format of 'thou shalt not'

Ehtics based education should be put in place of religion classes in public schools. I think if you attend a Catholic school you really are accepting the Catholic faith as your own and should be happy for your children to be taught *as* Catholics.

JMHO






xxx
Me - Beth (19)
DP - Warwick (22)
DD - Kathleen Violet (12/05/04)

*Pierre Robin/cleft palate/severe reflux*

<a href="http://lilypie.com"><img src="http://lilypie.com/baby1/050512/2/0/0/+10" alt="Lilypie Baby Days" border="0" /></a>

Grr double post! :eg:

This message was edited by Skitty on Wednesday, 1 September 2004 @ 7:52 PM

Well when I was in school I remember there being different religeous education. There was a room for the catholics, a room for the anglican, a room for the JW's and a room for the mormans etc. Those who didn't actually fit anywhere, like myself, just went to the "No religion" room and stared at a wall more or less LOL. It would have been good if there was some sort of values education for those who didn't fit anywhere, not that my mum would have allowed me to go there but most of the others in my group would have.

The school that the kids go to now just have the basic religious education. They are taught the basics (Jesus died for sins and bible stories etc) and nothing much else. I'm quite happy with that, If I opposed it that strongly then I wouldn't allow them to go, but I can't find any harm in it. I have no idea if they cater for other religions or not. I gather they do though, as they are a very very good school. But I shall endeavour to find out, just out of interest But if they don't, then they should.

I do think that ethics based education should be available to those who do not wish their children to go to religious education, and I DON'T think it should incorporate any religion either.

Certainly in NSW government schools "religion" is
taught once a week by people from local churches,
synagogues, mosque etc. Parents can choose
which class they would like their child to attend or
they may go to "non-scripture". If a particular faith
isn't taught it's because representatives of that faith
haven't volunteered to teach in their local school.

i am intrigued as to how ethics could be taught
without a religious content, given that in our society
such a strong force of what we believe to be ethical
comes from our Judeo-Christian law. Having said
that I do think that children need to be taught an
ethical approach to life, instead of the
ends-justifies-the-means approach to life that we
are adopting. However I would think this would be
something taught by parents ie. consequences of
actions, living according to your values etc.

Take care
Shelley

I went to a public primary school where scripture was taught which I really enjoyed. I dont ever remember being told that I was 'full of sin' and although run by the local uniting church, there was no particular denominational teaching.

I attended a catholic school for the rest of my compulsory schooling and found that it taught a well rounded view of all religions as well as 'ethics' and morals in general. Also the empowerment, care and warmth given to the student population is something to be commended and that I never encountered in the public system ( some of my siblings went right through the public system so I do have a comparison ) For these reasons I will be putting my DD into the catholic school system.

I too do not know how you would teach ethics and morals without some religeous content given that our society's value system is based on christianity. In an ideal world I think an ethics based program in all schools would be ideal but practically I feel that it is up to the parents to provide this type of education. Also there will always be parents who object to even this as everyone has differing moral and ethical standards.



Cheers,

Lisa

Amelie

I think it would be good for there to be ethics class for those who do not attend scripture. I don't know how/what would be taught in these classes, but I think that places like st James must know what to teach etc.

My children won't be getting taught scripture when they are at school as it is christian based, and I would prefer them to learn their own religion (but they will be taught that no one religion is right, tolerence type thing) So instead they will go to classes at the mosque on the weekend to learn more about islam. And basically I would at least like them to have something to do for that time when the other children are attending scripture.

Ridani
Me-20 DH-37
TTC#1-Jan 2003
MF
2 IUI June/July BFN
IVF tuhan November

I would love my children to be taught the basics of the different relgions preferably in higher primary school.

Both my husband and I are aethists but will leave it up to the kids to decide if they want to become involved in a faith. I attended Catholic schools until Year 11 and was bought up loosely Catholic, my husband didn't have any relgious influence at all in his upbringing. I went through school know as a 'child full of sin' as I was born out of wedlock.

I think it would teach a lot of kids more tolerance towards others.

The local Catholic High School teaches ethics and morals more so than religion apparently.

In my opinion it's a good thing but I can understand parents not wanting it for their children so it should also be option but it is going to be something on the list of things I look for when choosing a school for DS and his future brothers and sisters.


Me 30
DH 35
DS Matt - 28th June 2003



http://www.fujicolor.com.au/en/Album/Cover.asp?A=267494

This is a topic that I can get quite heated about, especially after the way my parents were treated with their decisions.

Essentially, my parents are non-religious - although they have their own beliefs. they do not force their beliefs on to anyone else, but will have an intellegent discussion if someone is open and willing to. they were both christened as children, but only ever went to church for weddings, funerals etc. Neither of them had a great belief in christianity.

When it came to my sister and I, they decided to leave the choice of religion up to us, for when we are old enough to make an informed decision ourselves. therefore, we were not christened/baptised or anything else. their parents looked down on them for this decision - however it was their decision to make at the time and they felt they were doing the best for us - which I agree with and am doing with my children.

From an early age at primary school (public in WA), my parents gave us the choice of studying scripture or not. They left it entirely up to us. We both decided that until they begin teaching religions other than Christian based ones, we wouldn't participate as we preferred the option of looking into each religion and not being biased towards any particular one without first researching each religion. This was fine with my parents - they wrote as such to the school. Now get this - my principal rang my mum at work and told her that she was WRONG. She was absolutely furious and couldn't believe that someone could tell her she was wrong about such an emotive decision to do with her childs education. She outlined our reasons (although she didn't actually need to justify herself, but felt she was being backed into a corner), and the principal still pushed her. Lucky for me - she stood by our decision.

At the end of the day, yes we spent some time each week doing stuff all while others were in scripture class, but I think that experience taught us to think more for ourselves and to consider all options available rather than to follow the vast majority of people. to this day, both my sister and I have our own beliefs (which differ from each other and from our parents), but that's OK. We made the choice ourselves - that is the important thing. My kids will be given the same opportunity.

Overall, I think it would be a fantastic idea to have ethics taught at school rather than religion - there is no need to mix the 2 up - although I still believe that a great deal of ethics should be taught at home by the parents - it is essentially the responibility of the parents. I would however support the introduction of a non-religious ethics discussion in schools, or a more broad study of religion is schools to cover the many religions out there - after all, we are a multicultural society.

Sorry for the rant - this is just a topic I can get very heated about.

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto
you" is from the Bible. Jesus said it.

It is possible to educate children about different
religions or faiths however to follow one you have
to believe that it is true. Even people who teach
their children about every religion or no religions at
all are having an impact on how their kids will view
religion. That is, they are showing that as parents
they choose not to follow a particular religion so it
can't be that important. I think it's important for
parents to know where they stand themselves and
the best way to do this is to investigate the claims
made by religions and whether or not they can be
true. Regardless of what is taught in schools,
families have more influence.

Take care
Shelley

From what I gather of the NSW state school that my son goes to you have to elect which type of religious education your child receives. Theoretically I suppose you could get them rotated through the various scripture classes offered at the school but as another poster has said it depends on who in the local religious community offers to provide religious education at the school as to what is available. At my son's school I know they have Anglican and Catholic scripture at a minimum, the children who do not do scripture do what the original article says, sit in the library and have nothing to do for 40-60 mins.

Personally I would prefer to have some sort of comparative religion taught even at this early (first year of formal education) age, it was only this afternoon that my son started asking what happens after you die and I really didn't remember what all the various religions taught. Since I am not particularly Christian myself I didn't want to just flat out answer that you go to Heaven or Hell, I want him to have a much more well-rounded world view than that. I know I did some sort of comparative religion at my NSW state high school but I think it was only because I elected to do Asian Studies in Year 8.

As far as "ethics" goes, I have other concerns about that. Who decides what is "ethical" for education purposes? Is it just teaching what the law of the country is, is it teaching natural consequences and justice, is it teaching religious-based ethics and if so which religion? It's just too broad an area which is too hard to easily define, especially if you take religion out of it. Technically Australia is a Christian country but the <a href="http://www.cra.org.au/pages/00000249.cgi">2001 census</a> shows that the number of people identifying as Christian, while still a majority, is growing slower than the population rate is rising. Percentage wise a number of the non Christian religions is growing much faster than the population rate, especially Buddhism and Muslim. Interestingly the same webpage states:


If that's the case, how can we use religion to base our ethics, and if we don't then what do we base ethics on?


Mum to Shrimp (11 Mar 99),
Thud (4 Oct 00) and Mischief (30 Jul 02)

Why can't you base ethics on humanity? It doesn't need to be based on religion at all just plain old humanity.

I agree with Desiree

While most of the general morals and ethics we follow are based from religion, why cant we just teach them as desirable human traits? Those same morals come from the basis of every religion, so why not recognize it as a human moral rather than a religious one?

xxx
Me - Beth (19)
DP - Warwick (22)
DD - Kathleen Violet (12/05/04)

*Pierre Robin/cleft palate/severe reflux*

<a href="http://lilypie.com"><img src="http://lilypie.com/baby1/050512/2/0/0/+10" alt="Lilypie Baby Days" border="0" /></a>

Well said Skitty.
After all this, I am still wondering why the schools are feeling they are responsible for instruction in ethics and religion at all. Surely this should be coming from the parents, not the schools? Are the good old days of parents teaching their children good values gone forever?

Needless to say, my kids will be taught how to behave well, but also how to stand up for themselves without offending others - as my parents taught my sister and I. I think that this is part of the responsibility we take on when we make the decision to become parents. Surely we are responsible for their actions until they are old enough to reason things out for themselves?

As a child I attended religous 'scripture' classes. The funny thing was, I lived 2 dors away from a catholic school and church. My mum was a (non practising) Catholic and my father was (non practising) church of England.

As a small toddler around 2-3yrs old, I often jumped my fence and walked down to the Catholic school where the nuns gladly took me into their kindy class on an almost daily basis, and where I received a lot of my 'pre school' education. Yet, when it came time to enrol me in school, my mother was told I could not be enrolled in this Catholic school because both parents had to be Catholic.

It made no difference that I used to wander down to the church almost every other day to 'talk to God' and even was brave enough to knock on the door of the 'Father's' house and ask to speak to the 'man of God'. This led to me being invited inside by the housemaid where upon I made friends with her and the priests and often ended up on the weekends having afternoon tea with the priests. (No threat of sexual harrassment by these priests - I think it was either not heard of or well hidden 30yrs ago!).

At school I attended Catholic SCripture classes until my dad found out and he made me swap to church of England classes. I attended Church of England Sunday School even though neither of my parents attended church.

I feel that children should be given the opportunity to learn about religion of their own choice or by that which is followed by their parents - until such time as they can make up their own minds. But I also think that an 'ethics' class should be an option given to all students - not just those who do not attend religious education classes.

Religion is a part of the whole ethics concept - as mmuch of our society's ethics throughout the world has their basis in some sort of religion.

I grew up with a broad range and choice of religious structure available to me, and I independently chose at the age of 14 to become a Christian and to serve God. No strings attached. Even though I was christened into the Church of England church, I no longer attend a C of E church (now known as Anglican). I simply choose to attend a non denominational church of Christians who gather together to support each other, follow th teachings of the Bible, choose to live alife under Grace and serve the community in which we live...and have a great time.

Our world is a melting pot of different religions and backgrounds. Being able to study them for what they are and how they inpact the world around us, is a good thing. What we choose is up to us. I will bring my child up in a Christian church and Christian home, but the ultimate choice is always going to be up to my child as to what he decides to follow (if anything). I know that it will always be my prayer that he follows Christ


Dobbieray

Me - 41
Hubby - 42
Baby - son Joshua born 16/07/04 at 8lb 10z 20" long
<a href="http://lilypie.com"><img src="http://lilypie.com/baby1/050716/2/12/0/+10" alt="Lilypie Baby Days" border="0" /></a>

Remember, be gentle with yourself
Love
Dobbieray

As a child I attended religous 'scripture' classes. The funny thing was, I lived 2 dors away from a catholic school and church. My mum was a (non practising) Catholic and my father was (non practising) church of England.

As a small toddler around 2-3yrs old, I often jumped my fence and walked down to the Catholic school where the nuns gladly took me into their kindy class on an almost daily basis, and where I received a lot of my 'pre school' education. Yet, when it came time to enrol me in school, my mother was told I could not be enrolled in this Catholic school because both parents had to be Catholic.

It made no difference that I used to wander down to the church almost every other day to 'talk to God' and even was brave enough to knock on the door of the 'Father's' house and ask to speak to the 'man of God'. This led to me being invited inside by the housemaid where upon I made friends with her and the priests and often ended up on the weekends having afternoon tea with the priests. (No threat of sexual harrassment by these priests - I think it was either not heard of or well hidden 30yrs ago!).

At school I attended Catholic SCripture classes until my dad found out and he made me swap to church of England classes. I attended Church of England Sunday School even though neither of my parents attended church.

I feel that children should be given the opportunity to learn about religion of their own choice or by that which is followed by their parents - until such time as they can make up their own minds. But I also think that an 'ethics' class should be an option given to all students - not just those who do not attend religious education classes.

Religion is a part of the whole ethics concept - as mmuch of our society's ethics throughout the world has their basis in some sort of religion.

I grew up with a broad range and choice of religious structure available to me, and I independently chose at the age of 14 to become a Christian and to serve God. No strings attached. Even though I was christened into the Church of England church, I no longer attend a C of E church (now known as Anglican). I simply choose to attend a non denominational church of Christians who gather together to support each other, follow th teachings of the Bible, choose to live alife under Grace and serve the community in which we live...and have a great time.

Our world is a melting pot of different religions and backgrounds. Being able to study them for what they are and how they inpact the world around us, is a good thing. What we choose is up to us. I will bring my child up in a Christian church and Christian home, but the ultimate choice is always going to be up to my child as to what he decides to follow (if anything). I know that it will always be my prayer that he follows Christ


Dobbieray

Me - 41
Hubby - 42
Baby - son Joshua born 16/07/04 at 8lb 10z 20" long
<a href="http://lilypie.com"><img src="http://lilypie.com/baby1/050716/2/12/0/+10" alt="Lilypie Baby Days" border="0" /></a>

Remember, be gentle with yourself
Love
Dobbieray

I would love to see two things taught in primary schools.

First a class on ethics/morality/philosophy.
This could be designed specially for 6-12 year olds, and cover basic concepts of self, being a person in modern society and 'good' and 'evil' in a non-religious sense. It might include some brief history of the philosophers, a bit like the book 'Sophies' World' if anyone is familiar with this.
This would only need to be a short course, something like 12 weeks of 1 hour per week. Just to give kids the concept of morality etc.

The second thing would be that religion is taught in a more broad, objective way. For example, kids would be taught the basic concepts and philosophy of each religion around the world, how their religion and cultural background change the way they see the world etc. Again, I see this as something that could be taught over 12 weeks rather than a year-long thing.

For my own experiense...
My parents allowed me to decide my own religion as a child. Having a scientist/humanist father, I was given a choice to attend scripture or not. At my school there was scripture for Christians and Catholics.
I attended the Christian one a few times when I was 8, but what I saw disturbed me...I didn't like the teacher and the way it was taught just seemed childish and silly to me. (No offense to anyone who loved scripture! I've had other experiences with Christianity since that were far more positive!)

So me and the Hindu kid went the the library and read books while everyone else attended scripture. I loved this chance to just go and read cause I was a bit of a bookworm anyway



Me - 31
DH - 31
and little "Prume-prume"

In SA we had "religious seminars" every year in high school. A priest would visit and talk to us for an hour or so. We were then given a tiny red bible.
The only other religious education was of course in the religious schools, usually private.

I was not "allowed" to attend these as my parents refused.

My mother would send the consent form back with expletives. Also the bible she tore in half and scribbled on and sent back to my home room teacher.
I got my way into the seminar though, because I wanted to go. My home room was a christian and allowed me in.
So aside from that I have grown up without a religion. I have believed in "God" for years and pray in my own way, but have no teachings as such. I have considered it, but truthfully have no idea where to go. Any ideas welcome.
My husband was raised as catholic but no longer is "practising".

Our children will hopefully be brought up with religious education. I am not sure if the school I have chosen covers it at the moment, but there are many religious schools here also I can choose from when I am ready to place them.

I dont have a problem with religious education in schools.
Liz


<a href="http://lilypie.com"><img src="http://lilypie.com/baby3/020614/1/5/2/+10" alt="Lilypie Baby Days" border="0" /></a>

Hito! The ethics/morality/philosphy classes you describe actually exist...check out this Philosophy for Children site (there are others out there too)...

http://members.iinet.net.au/~rstack1/philosophy4c.htm

Hi Chyna,
I too have recently wanted to explore my faith more, and have started an "Alpha" Course. Basically, it is a 10-week series, which explores what Christianity is all about. ITS FANTASTIC!!! It has helped me define what I believe, where Jesus fits in to world history, why God is true, what & how to pray, and other defining subjects. Whether you believe in God or not, it is a really non-threatening course. Alot of churches run it - if you can't find one that does, PM me and I'll try and help you (Im in SA too). I wreckon if you believe, its good to clarify what you believe - and my fave quote: IF YOU DON'T STAND FOR SOMETHING, YOU'LL FALL FOR ANYTHING.Text

Re: religious ed. in schools, I believe so I chose to send my kids to a christian school. An added bonus is the amazing amount of additional caring that private schools are allowed to give students and their families. I wouldn't swap that for the world!

me 34, DH 363,DS 8, DS 7, DD 6

Wow, thanks for the link Shoishoi!

Me - 31
DH - 31
and little "Prume-prume"

Whether my children get taught about God at home or not, I still think that religious education and values education should be made available at school for those kids who are searching for God. If there are parents who are against God and don't wish to teach their kids about God, it's nice to know that a child who wishes to learn the basics can do so at school. So although it doesn't directly affect my children, I would still like these things to be an option in schools.

I belive all religions are basically based on the same moral and ethical principles, thus teaching our children 'ethics' and the like is not really based on 'judeo-christian' law as Shelley said but has a broader scope.
Most 'major' or 'main-stream' releigions all have the same ethics which revolve around being a good, honest person, not stealing, treating people kindly etc... They just have different beliefs on who and what 'god' really is.
Personally I think that teaching ethics thus really has no relationship with christianity and we could combine teaching children ethics and teaching them about other religions and beliefs.
Personally I would love to see my children grow up learning about what others believe and making thier own decisions based on information.
I think Australian schools have been far too dominated by 'christian' teachings for far too long and need to broaden their scope if we want to raise children that are not just 'tolerant' but that actually embrace people with different belief systems to their own.
Just my humble opinion really....

Saskia 27
DH 29
DDoggie (Ruby)
TTC 18 mths
Now EDD 10.12.04! Yay!
[img]http://lilypie.com/days/041210/0/25/0/+8[/img]

I personally don't like 'teaching' religion in schools simply as it is often taught as though it is facts when to me really religion is a belief- not something that can be taught, but something you develop for yourself. I see it that children do not have the ability to interpret fact from belief so really they are just going along with what they are told. This is why my childen won't be going to a religious school, as I want them to develop their own beliefs and not just agree to someone elses.

However, I do believe we need to instill some values into children or society will fall apart. At my school we have a value of the week and we look at that for a lesson each week eg. this weeks value is tolerance last weeks was tactfulness. We also have a basic outline of 'Everybody has the right to feel safe' etc. and we emphasise always considering feelings etc. I think this probably doesn't go far enough but a lot of this also needs to be done and reinforced at home.

I see ethics/values and religion as being a bit different. One teacher at school told the story in the staffroom the other day that 'Once a nun told me if I went to church for the first 9 Fridays of a year all my sins would be wiped upon entering heaven. I then believed for ages after that I could do what I want as long as I did those 9 Sundays!'

Me (Cat) 24
DH (Nathan) 23
Beautiful cat (Ally)
Usually delightful puppy (Jasper)

For some people it's both fact and belief...I believe that what I believe is fact



Possibly when they are young but as they grow older and are able to pray and get answers from God himself and read and interpret the bible themeselves then that would create a belief system that is no longer dependent on what is taught.

I remember accidently going into the catholic classroom and being told that I had the mark of the beast stamped on my forehead. I was about 10 yrs old and stood there arguing with the teacher about how I've been washed and made clean through Jesus' blood and no longer have the mark of the beast. I had never been taught this, this is just something I knew in my heart.

Although I can see what you are saying, I really feel that if a child is searching then they should have the resources there to turn to. They should be free to explore these things. Doesn't mean that they should be forced to attend RE but have the option available to them if they choose.

I would like to send Finn to a good school, but I really dont want it to be a religious one. I just disagree with organised religions on a number of levels and in many ways, and i wouldnt like the beliefs taught to Finn at school when he is so impressionable.

If he attends a school where its an option, he'd be one of the kids in the hallway and I like the idea of an ethics class but would like to know more about what values and ideals theyd be teaching.

I believe its mine and DHs job to teach Finn morals, values and ethics, so Id be fussy about what a school teaches in this sense. There should be something productive to do for those kids who choose not to be instructed in religion.

So IMO, ethics based education should NOT involve religion, and the multi faith stuff probably then doesnt apply. If the school is non secular based then religion shouldnt taught IMO.

<img src="http://weddedbliss.com.au/Kelly/ccb.gif"><img src="http://weddedbliss.com.au/Kelly/finn.gif"><img src="http://weddedbliss.com.au/Kelly/Aug03.gif">
"I cannot enter into a battle of wits with you as you are obviously unarmed"

Correction - Secular ought not teach religion at all.

<img src="http://weddedbliss.com.au/Kelly/ccb.gif"><img src="http://weddedbliss.com.au/Kelly/finn.gif"><img src="http://weddedbliss.com.au/Kelly/Aug03.gif">
"I cannot enter into a battle of wits with you as you are obviously unarmed"

Well my DP and I are not sure what way we shall go with our DD. We are both not religious and dont follow any type of religion in any way.

I personally would be fine with her not attending any classes in school that teach religion but on the other hand I dont want to push our non beliefs onto her but then if she did choose a religion and wanted to go to church we would not be able to take her.

She isnt even one yet so I guess we have lots of time before we have to decide.








Kate 31
DP 28
EDD 07/11/03
SAVANNAH-JADE BORN 17/10/03

<a href="http://lilypie.com"><img src="http://lilypie.com/baby1/041017/3/16/1/+10" alt="Lilypie Baby Days" border="0" /></a>

I went to Catholic Schools my entire schooling. Luckily I never encountered any of that "sin and damnation" rubbish! Still - now I'm not religious at all and don't want to bring my child up with religion. I always thought religion was a load of hogswallop.....trying to brainwash me to think a certain way......I ALWAYS saw through the hypocracy and that often got me in trouble (when I would challenge the nuns etc).....I guess as an adult I realise that I think in a very scientific way - so the whole "have faith" thing with religion doesn't strike a cord at all!
Most of my family are not overly religious but a few are and I know when my baby is born and they all start asking "when is the christianing?" there are going to be family eruptions ;p I will enjoy this as I love to debate the whole concept (and have a family member with a degree in theology!)
As for schooling - we will choose the school which offers the best education for our child, given his or her talents - if that is a religious based one we don't mind (unless it's over the top, fanatical) we believe our child should be exposed to all sorts of influences and we will teach him/her to think independently - so the odd religious class won't frighten us greatly as we aren't fearful of our child being exposed to different beliefs.
I believe all organised religions are based in "fear" - although they preach "love" - what they all really want is for you to be just that bit scared that if you don't do it "this way" then you won't be looked after in the next dimension....and are designed to play on our human need to have explanations for things we cannot explain - we humans crave the "black and white" as a general rule, that's our comfort zone......I believe that life stops when life stops and although we have a spiritual dimension in this world - if one starts to analyse how the brain works................well.........it's amazing and it's boundries are limitless......no wonder we can't explain it

Gracie, oh I agree with you! Organised religion is made up of imperfect men who can twist the word anyway they see fit. Alot of religions have alot to answer for, that's for sure. Luckly God and organised religion do NOT go hand in hand. I decided long ago that I was going to live God's way and only ever be answerable to God and no MAN! And this is how I am teaching my kids.

I dont' want to send R to a *catholic/christian/whatever* school because for me, it's hypocritical. For me, getting R baptised, christened etc was hypocritical. G and I didn't get married in a church, the church has never been a part of our life etc. So, sending him to a school of a denomination we both know nothing about is not right for us.

BUT. R might want that to be a part of his life; and I'll happily allow him to go to any religious classes his non denomination school teach IYKWIM. But, i see religion as something someone can *choose* to take further if they so wish - so why not teach him a little about it? In my view, he is going to be learning how to play basketball - he may want to take *that* further; or a musical instrument is another example.

I just want to expose him to everything that the world has to offer - and if *he* decides he wants to be catholic/christian/LDS/buddist/pagan - then we both will support that decision. I won't *practice* it per se, but i will definately support him in his decision to take it further, should he wish to do so.

Edited to add - as far as eithics go; i would've thought that it was part of *everyday* life anyway? I base ethics on humanity and morality - so i would've thought the *wrongs/rights* that we are teaching them now paves the way for the basis of ethics in a childs life? I don't get what this has to do with schools - who will only assist in those teachings IYKWIM?



This message was edited by Shel on Wednesday, 8 September 2004 @ 8:58 PM

I'm a bit of a mixed bag on this topic.

I went to a Catholic girls school, and thought that I got a great grounding. We had mainly nuns teaching us, and they treated us like we were their own.

I sent my older two boys along to religious classes (at a public school)

My then 5 year old refused to be called anything but 'Jesus' for a while there - both at home and at school ('cos he was such a nice man)

I would like an alternative 'ethics' program though in public schools - because there are many kids who, for whatever reason, will get little grounding at home.
I don't want any kids to miss out on learning about things like tolerance, respect and values.

I would also like my kids to learn about other religions, and the values that are consistent between them - whether as part of ethics classes, or social science.

I think you can certainly teach ethics or ethical and moral behaviour and I think this would be a wonderful addition to our school system. I too have done tertiary study in ethics & philosophy and in my undergrad study did think "why don't we discuss this when we are younger - in highschool?" Why? because learning to pause and think "is what I'm about to do ethical and moral behaviour...?" is to me worthwhile for teenagers to start thinking about!!
Sure - we do hopefully get a lot of this teaching at home from our parents - but unfortunately a LOT of people don't, so I feel we have a whole 1-2 generations of kids now who think only about themselves and our society has actively promoted competition "win at all costs" and individualism - to the detriment of all of us in the longer run.

Honestly - so many kids I meet and encounter these days are SO RUDE! Rude to their parents, rude to strangers, rude to their friends, rude to whomever they like........the way some of these kids speak to their parents!!??!! ASTOUNDS me sometimes - but what is worse is that parents allow it and seem powerless to stop it............YES - ethics and morals begin at home - but if you can turn around to your mother and tell her to "Shut up" when you are 10year old - then clearly - society has some hard thinking to do about where we are going............becuase these kids will not make great adults and in 40 years time, we "elderly" will be in BIG trouble if these very selfish people are making decisions about our aged care!!!!
SO - BRING ON THE ETHICS TEACHING IN SCHOOLS!


1st Baby
Due Feb 22nd 2005

Sorry.... but I couldn't help but get a good laugh out of that!!! that is so cute

Anyhow.. I personally believe that in all government schools christian religious principles should be taught as a general rule.. We are still classed as a Christian nation and I think that regardless of it being politically correct or not it should still be the standard teaching..

I don't think it should be based on certain denominations but just the general stuff..

I do think though that it shouldn't be a matter of it being available if wanted.. but taught as a general rule.. If parents do NOT wish for their children to be taught religious education then I think they should ask for special permission and have a seperate class for all those who do not wish to be included in religious study..

I think the other study should still be based on christian principles.. but just without mention of God..

Afterall our laws are based on Christian principles.. and while those principles are taught in other religions, Christianity is primarily where Australia got its laws from..

So focus around that.. The 10 commandments are a good base to start from.. just remove the part about God for the group that specifically don't want to be part of the religious study.

Don't Steal, Don't envy what others have, don't murder, don't commit adultery.. etc etc They are ALL good principles to live by and just about every religion in the world aggree with those basic views..



*** JaDeGaL ***
Me: 25
DH: 25
TTC # 1 - On pause until the middle of October..

That's so cute!! When I was 12 I went to a catholic school, just a little one. And for our graduation from primary school, we did a re-enactment of when jesus cured the lepers. Anyway I got to play Jesus, as I was the only girl to put her hand up when they asked 'who wants to play jesus'.

Anyway- as you can probably tell I was a Roman Catholic, but I am now muslim. Even though I was brought up Catholic, I do not believe that all children should be taught christian beliefs as a general rule. I think it should be a choice, yes this country was founded on christian beliefs, but it is no longer the only religious belief here. I think parents should have a choice, but it shouldn't just be - 1. christianity or 2. sit idle. I think if it's a government school there needs to be more choices, christians are not the only ones going there. It is a government school not a religious one.

I do not wish for my children to be learning only christianity at school, my children will be muslim, if they learn scriptur at school it should be islam. But no way would they be going to a full christian preaching class. And I just don't see why they shouldn't have more of a choice, why should those who do not want to learn christianity have to sit idle.

Ridani
Me-20 DH-37
TTC#1-Jan 2003
MF
2 IUI June/July BFN
IVF tuhan November

I didn't say they should learn Christianity or sit idle..

I said that I believe Government schools should teach Christianity as a general rule (since this is still classed as a Christian country).. but if parents decide that they do not wish this to be taught to their children (as is their right) then I think the other class should be based on the same principles (such as thy shall not steal, do not commit murder etc... which most religions teach and is part of our law) with the God part removed from the lesson..

That is for government schooling..

I think if people want to teach other religions to their children.. thats fine and good.. but I dont think it should be funded by the Government of a country that is still classed as Christian.. I think it should be either at home or in private education etc..

*** JaDeGaL ***
Me: 25
DH: 25
TTC # 1 - On pause until the middle of October..

JD - Sorry, I knew you said about the classes, I just didn't word my post properly.




But the government helps fund all schools, including the Islamic schools, why should it be that they fund those schools but do not fund for those other religions to be taught in there schools?

This is really the whole crux of the original argument! If children are taught ethics and basic morality - then it wouldn't matter what religion they belong to, it would apply. As far as I'm aware Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddists......all believe in similar ethical behaviour such as not intentionally harming your fellow man, treating others with respect and dignity, contributing in a just way to your family and society, respecting your family and community.........a curriculum which taught kids how to think of these basic human morals before acting, would meet all religions "rules" as far as I'm aware AND would assist us in developing considerate, open minded and accepting individuals - which is a necessary part of our multicultural society.....i.e. we all have to learn to get on and be kind to each other and respect each others views and norms - within the Australian constitution and laws of our nation.
I believe it is up to parents to give their children whatever religious instruction they want to teach - our public schools should be secular and non-denominational. If parents want their kids to have specific religious education at school - then send them to the appropriate private, religious based school!

1st Baby
Due Feb 22nd 2005

Yeh but Gracie, that's all very well for parents who don't want their kids to learn about a particular religion. But what about those kids who really really want to know and their parents don't let them? Shouldn't they have the option to explore these religions so they can make up their own mind?

I haven't read this whole thread so excuse me if I'm repeating here...

I think we need to clarify that the government does NOT fund the teaching of scripture (Christian or otherwise) in schools. NSW schools have an obligation to make a time available for such teaching, but it is the churches themselves who have to provide the teaching. In our church, we fund a full-time scripture teacher at our local high school. The school provides the time and we provide the teacher. I'm sure the same would go for an Islamic teacher etc. But the Islamic community would have to fund it and the parents of the children would have to want their children to attend it.

Desiree - well - in my opinion - it's not the public school systems job to teach religion, that's up the various religions methods to "spread their word" in the most effective way......if children are really that interested they will find a way to source the information they want.....parents are naive if they think otherwise about ANY issue out there! Kids know how to research and any kid with access to a computer & www will be able to find whatever they want to know about ANYTHING.
Besides, if a kids parents feel SO strongly against religion getting anywhere near their kids to actually actively block the child getting information........that is a family issue and something to be sorted out within the family - nothing to do with the public school system.

Parents today seem to think that schools will do everything for their kids and they see themselves as passive observers in the education process - expect teachers to work miracles with their kids.........as I see it.....the family and parents are the major influence in a childs life and need to lead the child and take full responsibility for all areas of education in a childs life - be it maths, english or religion. Teachers and schools are only a part of the system to educate a person........the parents are the main "educators" in all areas of a childs upbringing.......unfortunately in our society, some parents expect everyone BUT themselves to bring up their children & then when the kids go off the rails they shake their heads and say "I have no idea what happened....?"

1st Baby
Due Feb 22nd 2005

But religion has always been part of the school system. This is nothing new. So what I'm saying is, don't fix what ain't broke.

I dont agree with that - I expect a school to supplement my childs education - I am the main education provider of ethics/morals etc... I fail to see how a school can be responsible for lack of ethics/morals a child doesn't have?

Like Des said; religion has always been in schools - i went to the religious classes because i was interested; neither of my parents are religious, but they had no issue with me learning about it....they'd certainly have no issue with me *being* religious either...it's that *freedom* of choice that i would like my son to have..much like learning an instrument - i don't learn an instrument, but i have no issue if my son chooses to???

Education about all walks of life is what is important to me - that includes religion, sport, music, tolerance for others, sharing, teachers, testing, responsibility + all the reading/writing/maths/sciences etc.....

edited to say:



I agree with this statement - but I would expect that it would happen anyway. Des (sorry, i'm using you as an example here) would be taking her children to church outside of school - therefore *taking her child outside the school environment* to learn more about it. I assume that if a child wants to take the *recorder* further - that a parent would take the issue further off his/her own bat i.e. outside school classes.

For those who have a huge issue with religion being taught at school - they can simply sign off saying no, they don't want their child involved. It used to happen when i was at school - so surely it still happens now?



This message was edited by Shel on Saturday, 11 September 2004 @ 6:44 AM

This subject topic I happened to find by accident prompted me to join essential baby just so I could respond!
Our Tassie school are going through a major redevelopment in the way of "religious education" and the majority of parents feel it is no longer neccesary in schools. I have been pushing to have it removed for about five years now and my reasons are:
1. Public schools don't offer religious education, they offer Christian education
2. Showing a grade 1 child the gates of hell and saying that's where bad people go is almost what I consider to be mental abuse!
3. Christian education is not funded by the education department it is done voluntarily by Christians therefore my children who do not participate should not be removed from the class room to fill in half an hour of school time with inane tasks, however parents who wish for their children to participate should be happy for them to leave the classroom and receive their Christian education in the school hall or library.
4. If parents think it is so important for their children to learn about Christianity go to church with them!
5. My wish for Religious Education in schools is that we offer a brief unit on all types of religion world wide, to include Buddhism,Muslim,Islam,Mythology, Hinduism etc. and what about the religious beliefs of our own indigenous australians? How do people think we are going to teach tolerance to our kids if they get no insight of other peoples customs and beliefs? Australia is a multi-cultural society, why not move forward.

olderbabes- Welcome to EB! I must say I basically agree with all your points particularly number 5!

Me (Cat) 24
DH (Nathan) 23
Beautiful cat (Ally)
Usually delightful puppy (Jasper)
TTC 20+ months

My ideal situation...

For any parent who is of faith (any faith) this would
be the worst case scenario for their child. Being
exposed to religions and teachings which directly
contradict their faith would be hypocritical and
pointless. Yes, we need to teach tolerance and
acceptance of other faiths, but children do not need
instruction of a spectrum of religions at this age. No
way would I put my 5 year old in a 'mysticism' class.
I mean, where would it end. Is 'satanism' a
possibility - it would be if all faiths were to be
taught equally. My son attends public school, and will
attend a Christian High School. I have the benefit of
being of the Christian faith, in that my Son is
learning things at his school, that are already taught
in our home. Therefore it is supplementing his
education. For those who are not Christians, I can see
the dilemma. Obviously I would endorse the teaching of
Christian values and principles because this is my
faith. If you do not like it, then have your child
excluded. If you do pull them out, however, you need
to have a reasonable alternative. Our school has
communication and friendship building activities.
Relationship education in place of religious
education, for those who choose. I would like to add
that, in this world, who is going to outline which
ethics and morals we are to be guided by, if not by
Christianity? I hold Biblical teaching far above what
the law defines as moral and ethical, and definitely
above what our children are exposed to on Tv etc. We
have teams of young guys in our Church who are school
chaplains in High Schools. They are sometimes the life
preserver between a tormented teenager and possible
suicide. You may think that is exaggerated, but it is
a harsh, increasing reality in our youth population.
They see something different in these young men,
something that gives them a connection. These young
guys volunteer their time to run breakfast programs to
feed kids who don't get brekkie before school, and
some of our female chaplains run a brilliant program
called 'Shine' for teenage girls to learn that self
esteem and self worth are not based on appearances. It
is worth noting the great work that these people do in
helping kids that are definitely not getting the
guidance they need from home or a government
department.

Domestic Goddess Mum Of Four

nyrrek- Please don't take that I see things differently personally. I suppose because I don't agree with pushing specific religion onto a five year old I like the idea of a range of beliefs being presented so that the child grows up knowing there is a range of beliefs and is able to decide when they are older which of them suits 'their' beliefs. I see that children shouldn't be expected to decide their life long beliefs at a young age but should be exposed to a variety so they have choice. I do not like the idea of a child being 'excluded'. Why should they be? They have as much right to be there as any other child even if their families beliefs are in the minority.If you want your child to be taught a specific religion exclusively, that is your choice but you need to make the arrangements for that to happen (either Sunday School or Private School) but it shouldn't be up to the school system to enforce your beliefs above others.
The chaplains from your church ARE doing a great job as is anyone who is helping to reach out to young people- religious or not. It is not just christians who volunteer their time and give generously to help others so what does that have to do with religion?


Me (Cat) 24
DH (Nathan) 23
Beautiful cat (Ally)
Usually delightful puppy (Jasper)
TTC 20+ months

I don't take our difference of opinion personally, I
take my Faith, personally. For anyone who has a Faith
(I avoid the word religion, because I worship God, not
a Church. It is a relationship not an institute) it
should be ultimately personal. This is why I said,
from my standpoint as a Christian, that the system
suits us well. For those it does not suit, another
system or program should be adopted. I mentioned the
alternative given at our school. I would rather see
'Religious instruction' taken out of schools
completely than to open it up to any old 'religion' to
come in and confuse our kids. I absolutely acknowledge
anyone who volunteers time and resouces to assisting
our children or the wider community. I firmly believe
that it is the parent's and families responsibility to
instruct and disciple a Child's faith in whichever
religion they live their lives according to. It is as
dangerous to entrust your child's upbringing to any
religious school as it is to a public school. Too many
parents are also complacent in thinking a Catholic or
Christian school will put their child on the right
track for life. Morals and ethics should be taught and
modelled in the home, but the reality is they are not
in many circumstances. As far as I can see, from my
personal Faith view, Christian volunteers in schools
are sowing into children things that are fundamental
to them becoming responsible, outward focussed people.

Domestic Goddess Mum Of Four

I can decipher that we are all pretty much saying the same things now in this discussion!
Basically - it's up to parents to teach morals & whatever "belief" that they want their children to be exposed to. Schools play a supporting role only (this was my earlier point but I think I said it so that a few were confused - no matter!)
The differences of opinion lie in the details - obviously some schools (be they public or private) have managed to find a balanced and responisible way to teach about "religion" - others are having more difficulty.........
I agree that our basic human principles seem to be based on Christianity - esp to those who are Christian. However, when one looks at most other religious beliefs - they seem to me to be saying similar things - just with maybe different emphasis at times!
I think Australia is currently grappling with the choice between saying we are a secular society OR a Christian society (which is our traditional model) With such significant numbers of people now who are non-Christian or don't want any particlar religion in their life (such as I)this is something our society is going to have to start having meaningful discussion about............I agree wholeheartedly with the person who said that we need to learn about other cultures and beliefs so we can become a truly tolerant yet diverse multicultural nation.........to me, all people are basically good and decent, no matter where they come from, what they believe or what colour they are.....what's it matter what god or being or whatever one chooses to worship?? As long as we respect and are nice to each other??

It would be these types of sentiments and values I would like schools to "teach" -rather then specific "religious education".

1st Baby
Due Feb 22nd 2005