We've heard a lot about the 'Supermum' type of mum over the past few years - the kind who can have children, a career, and maintain a tidy house.

Is this possible ?
What are your experiences ?
Do you think there too many pressures on modern women ?

('Supermum' is a somewhat silly term that is bandied around in the media. It has no bearing on reality, as mums in general are special people, and they perform heroic tasks everyday.
Truly, all mums are super.)

This topic is meant to discuss "What is the reality for mums who engage in paid work ?"

This message was edited by ~Anni~ on Friday, 7 May 2004 @ 8:45 PM

I've been asking myself the same questions about "supermums".

I'm returning to work next week, 3 months after the birth of my first child. I'll let you know what happens!!

I know my ob (female) has three young children and works full time in a very demanding job. Often wondered how she does it.

I don't think there is too much pressure on modern women. We are able to make our own decisions as to whether we have a career, children, and a clean house!!

i don't think there is too much pressure on the "modern woman"...if she wants all these things and is working towards it fine

i think there is a lot of pressure on the "modern family" and some ladies may have to be a superwoman because she has no choice but to work and all the rest of it too

in my experience i didn't manage it all that well...i didn't have a career just a job but even doing that 2 days a week with only 1 child i found i couldn't keep up...so when i was forced into early retirement *tongue in cheek* i found i felt better in general coz i could keep up at home

now looking at things there is almost no way in heck i could cope with 2 x kids 1 at school 1 at preschool 1 day/wk plus their swimming and speech and playgroup plus my netball and doing books for our small business and helping at school on tuesdays and finally running the house i'd just about fall down dead after a week if i had to add an outside job to the equation...this is my job...this is my career!

<B>Meg (now 30 & not happy about it!)</B><P>DH (31)<BR>Shania (6 soon) & Hayden (2 1/2)<BR> Do you know where Daniel is?

This message was edited by MsMeg on Wednesday, 5 May 2004 @ 1:43 PM

Well, it certainly isn't happening for me!

Yesterday I did some research into childcare for my two kids (both under two years old) and with the gov' rebate I will be going to work for a whopping $13.50 a day! If we didn't get the rebate we would have to PAY $2.50 a day for me to go to work.

Now I was only going back to my 2 day a week job, but i have to ask myself is all that running around, stress and guilt worth $27 a week?

So I worked out if I was to go back full time, Childcare would cost 26K a year, considering my previous f/t job gave me 29k before tax, is it worth us fitting this in to our budget?

To be honest, I am quite upset that I will have to resign from my job after my 12 months leave and look at taking a weekend/night time job.

The only pressure that Im feeling is in our immediate family. If I don't work it will put enormous strain on our lifestyle. It is okay to live with out certain things for a short period of time, but eventually we will need a holiday, replace sunken furniture, and the kids can't stay in cots forever!

For me it will be being a supermum of just having kids and a tidy house and no time with hubby!

that's why i was forced into "early retirement" because with the need for a 2nd car in the new circumstance we were in (needed to car loan to get a vehicle) i'd have to work fulltime and have dd in fulltime childcare just for the luxury of getting $10/fortnight in my pocket! not on your nelly!

<B>Meg (now 30 & not happy about it!)</B><P>DH (31)<BR>Shania (6 soon) & Hayden (2 1/2)<BR> Do you know where Daniel is?

This is such an interesting disucssion.

As to the question, yes it is possible, I have seen it done. But
do I want to do it, and is it possible for all people, all careers/
jobs and all families is another story.

I think there are 2 types of careers/jobs when it comes to this
question. The first being a fixed hours, fixed location job. The
second being non fixed hours, ie work to get the job done,
not the hours, which possibly, has various locations, and
possibly travel. Each of the variables on the 2nd type of job
adds extra complexity.

I have never had the first type of job/career, ie fixed hours,
and/or fixed location. And most of my friends do not have
that, so I wont comment on it.

The second type does really have challenges. The person I
saw suceed was the director I reported to, she had a great
Nanny, although her high power husband was in a tough job,
he did not travel, she travelled alot. She had a policy that no
matter how hard she worked/travelled during the week, she
would not work on the weekend.

I think to have the 2nd type of job and do it with daycare, or a
partner who is in a similar job would be close to impossible.
When you have no set hours, no set location and or travel,
you need flexibility, day care does not give this. So either a
nanny or family is necessary. If the partner can always be the
pick up from daycare person it would work (I assume).

For me, I am now back at work 2, next week 3 days/week., I
have been off for 16mths with maternity leave, then sick
leave, and am still on sick leave the days I am not working. I
can see that me going back full time, with the job my
husband has would be impossible without a Live In Nanny.
Both of us travel with work. This is not possible without
someone to care for DS at nights when we are both
travelling. If I did not travel, and just worked the hours I
would need to do to do my job properly I would certainly
need a Nanny not daycare.

To have a Nanny that of course assumes you are earning
enough, but I would nearly assume (possibly incorrectly) if
you are in that sort of job you are probably earning a decent
income.

As far as are there too many pressures on modern women,
they are only there if we want them to be. We are adults and
can make up our own mind. Well we should be able to. We
are not (generally) teens who are influenced by peer
pressure.

I am with Meg, being a SAHM can be a job, a career. And I
want it....... soon.

Anna

PS Edited to add, great topic, I can't wait to see some of the
discussion

This message was edited by johnandanna on Wednesday, 5 May 2004 @ 4:23 PM

I have put any hopes and aspirations of a career on hold until my youngest is in primary school. I am an accountant, and have two postgraduate degrees and I could get a well paying job IF I wanted to.

I will also point out that I am lucky, that DH earns a reasonable decent salary, so I don't have to work to pay off the mortgage.

However, at this point in time I am much happier staying at home looking after my children, which I see as a much more rewarding and longer term investment in our familys future.

In a way the cost of childcare has played a major role in a influencing my decision (anyone ever costed childcare for 4 children?????) It is very scary. It's not even worth going back to work on a parttime basis for say 15 hours a week. I would be working for love not money, so it's not really worth it anyway.

Having said that, I love staying home looking after my children and I wouldn't really trust anyone else to do a 'good enough' job anyway. I love being at home when Nicholas gets home from school. I love helping out his school and knowing who his friends are. I love "knowing everything" about the girls lives.

It also depends on the individual. I am happy staying at home, however I do know that a lot of mothers aren't!

I think it is possible to "have it all". However, I don't think it is possible to have it all at once. I am happy to stay at home at the moment and I know I will have a lot of years of working later on. My philosphy is that I don't want to look back on my children's younger years (which lets face it go all too quickly) and regret not being there.

On the tidy house issue - NO WAY, my house resembles the local tip and *sigh* this seems to be pretty permanent state of affairs!

Karen
Nicholas, Courtney and Chloe
EDD 25/09/04




<a href="http://lilypie.com"><img src="http://lilypie.com/days.php?e=040925&m=0&s=0" alt="Lilypie Baby Days" border="0" /></a>

In addition, on the too many pressures on the modern woman issue:

We have been told we can have it all.........

My question is: Do we really want it all?

I don't. I like to keep my life simple!

Karen
Nicholas, Courtney and Chloe
EDD 25/09/04







<a href="http://lilypie.com"><img src="http://lilypie.com/days.php?e=040925&m=0&s=0" alt="Lilypie Baby Days" border="0" /></a>

The whole concept of going back to work is scaring me, but if I don't then we will have to sell our house. With mortgage, health insurance, personal loan, credit cards, vet bills, grocery bills, electricity, gas etc, there's not much money left at the end of the month.

Now I need to work to pay the mortgage and pay for childcare!!

I think I will have to adopt the "supermum" role. I have it all planned out. At 7am I will walk DD to daycare 30mins from home, then walk 30mins to work, starting work at 8am. I will have to work until 6pm, walk to daycare and pick up DD then walk home, getting home at about 7pm (can't wait for those cold and wet Melbourne nights). Plan to have freezer full of ready made meals to whack in the microwave whilst playing with and feeding DD. Put DD to bed, eat then put myself to bed once I've finished cleaning up and done any preparation/reading for work the next day.

It all sounds so easy...........

This is so interesting. I happened to stumble on this discussion, and seeing Im going back to work after the end of the financial year, I thought I'd take a peek.
I think going back to work shows good work ethic, it gives your kids a good example. But, alot of women choose not to go back to work and thats fine too. I really do believe we can have it all, but at our own pace! I've always maintained I will not have a nanny or take my son to a daycare centre. Thats just our preference, so I dont see myself going back to work full time until Nate is in school. But thats ok by me, its almost like having the best of both worlds because I adore being with my son. Being a SAHM is a taxing job in itself, I barely have time to eat these days. If its not housework its laundry, if its not laundry then its running after baby. And then its entertaining baby. And trying to get a good 15 minutes to myself.
Actually, the more I think about it, the more Im fretting over going back to work! How am I going to fit 25-30 hours per week in an office......gee, we really are super, arent we??

Virginia x

Very interesting question, I am on my 4th day back at full time work after 6 months maternity leave and was just wondering to myself today, how on earth do they (the supermums) do it.
We have a live in Nanny/Housekeeper (we're not rich, but we don't live in Aus. and it's much cheaper here) and between the two of us we're really doing a good job. DS is very well looked after by Nanny all day, then when I come home in the evening I play with DS and put him to bed, while she tidies and cleans, I was just thinking to myself today that we had 2 fulltime workers doing what some people manage by themselves.

If I had to move back to Aus I don't think I would ever be able to work, might have to live close to mum!!

Hmm ... very interesting question .

I'd have to agree with what Anna said, I think it depends so much on what kind of career we're talking about. So many career (management level) jobs involve irregular hours and travel which make it very, very difficult to organise family life, especially if both partners have similar working conditions.

We've been pretty lucky in that I'm able to work 2.5 days per week in a job that is reasonably interesting even though I wouldn't call it a "career job". If I had wanted to pursue a career in what I'm trained to do then I would've had to accept the idea of travelling often, working long and irregular hours and seeing very little of my son. For me there was absolutely no choice involved, I'm happy to be working part-time as I don't think I'm cut out to be a full-time SAHM, but I'm also glad that I'm in a relatively low stress job with regular hours which means that I'm able to leave my son at daycare at 8am and pick him up by 5.30pm.

I have to say though that housework (or lack of it ) is a pretty constant source of stress to me and I don't think that that's something that "Superdads" feel nearly as guilty about ....

Jo oxo
*DS Matteo Jasper 3/12/2002
*D? EDD 3/12/2004 !
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/m/matteo/

I work FT and am out of the house for 11 hours a day!

Not a career position but it could be if I wanted it to be.

I don't!
Simple as that!

Now that I am pregnant with No. 2 I have absolutely no intention of going back to my same job - commuting 1.5 hours each way is not conducive to happy Mummy (at least to me!)
But I don't think I could be a FT SAHM either!
So where do you strike the balance? There's the question!

I have to work for a rather hefty mortgage!
Hubby and I get about the same money so unless he gets a whacking pay rise in the next year chances are I'll be sitting back here in the office eating my words after No, 2 comes along! ;p

But, I would dearly love to find soemthing a little closer to home and less hours to give me more time with DD and NO. 2!

I feel guilty being away from DD so much! That's just me!

Karen feels worse if she stays at home with her DD full time and I am completely envious of her as she has found the best balance for her and her family! That's great!

I need to work! As do a lot of Mums.
I need the stimulation! Not saying that SAHM isn't stimulating to those who do it but I just know I'd go balmy!
Worked in an office situation too long! ;p
My sister is a SAHM (who wouldn't be with 4 kids) o: and she's a compelte professional at it!
I wouldn't be! I know that!

But if I can strike MY balance with some work closer to home and more time to spend with my children then I will be a happy camper. As Karen seems to be with her decisions.

I think that the TRUE definition of Supermum is someone who can strike the right balance for them and for their families...

There are no prizes for doing and having it all!
The prize is there when your family is on an even keel and all parties are happy!

That is being a Supermum!

As for the tidy house - notice I didn't mention it! :eg:

Kim


DD - Rebecca Jade
18/07/01

[img]http://preg.fertilityfriend.com/pregticker/46bba/[/img]

This message was edited by Girolama on Wednesday, 5 May 2004 @ 11:33 PM

I think it comes down to three things:

1..How organised you are
2..How mentally bored you get
3..How much energy you have.

I ain't no supermum and have no intention of becoming one. I am very organised, I get bored easily but unfortunately I only have so much energy...and working 3 days a week...and looking after the household and DS is enough for me. I tried to fit study in as well...but just don't have the energy for it at the moment.

I wish someone would come and tidy the house though I can't justify it to myself at the moment.

I love working...I was a SAHM for 10 1/2 months and I was going loopy loo. I need the adult contact of the workplace and to know that when DS is starting school I can crank up the career again. At the moment being part time I am just keeping my oar in the water. It is not advancing my career...I would have to be full time for that.

Oh...I meant to add that I don't think there is too much pressure on the modern woman...we just have more choices and I think that is pretty dandy. You only make the right choice for you and your family...no one else. I don't believe however that there is equality in the distribution of housework in the household though. Women still the vast majority of it even if they work full time.

This message was edited by sputnik on Thursday, 6 May 2004 @ 12:13 AM

A woman can do whatever she puts her mind to do, if she wants to - that's what I've discovered.

When I was pregnant with my DD, I applied for maternity leave from my job as a well-paid solicitor with a medium tier firm where there was talk of me being made a partner due to a particular legal specialty of mine (won't bore you with details ;p). I had every intention after my DD was about 6 months old to return to work on a four day a week basis, which meant with my DH's work schedule DD would have been in care three days a week.

I was completely derailed by motherhood. I knew when DD was less than three months old that I wanted to be her full-time carer - it was an instinctive desire in me.

However, I also realised that as I had obtained my legal qualifications with blood, sweat and tears, that I really shouldn't see them go down the toilet. To be honest, I cannot say that I enjoyed being a lawyer more than a mother - motherhood fulfilled me more than anything - but for practical reasons I knew I had to maintain my qualifications and continue to work as a lawyer if I could AND be a full-time mother to my DD.

So I obtained the appropriate qualifications to work for myself and established a practice from home. By coincidence also though at about the same time, I applied for a legal consulting job that meant I could work from home on that as well, and ended up getting that job. I ran my own practice from home and the consulting job concurrently for a while, however when two other kiddies appeared on the scene, that became a tad difficult to sustain. So i gave up my little practice and just worked at the consulting.

I won't deny that I could earn a hell of a lot more if I worked out of the home - but my choice and what feels right to me, is to be here full-time for my children. I still think I have the best of all worlds though, as I am still working as a lawyer - effectively through three children I have had only four months maternity leave - and I am a full-time mum. The tidiness of my house used to leave a bit to be desired, but in recent months I have WANTED a spick and span house as well as the other things, and now I have it. Like I said, it's all about recognising what you want and being determined to go for it and being determined not to fail. If you really want motherhood AND career AND anything else really, you can have it. We girls can do anything !

This message was edited by Riz on Thursday, 6 May 2004 @ 8:31 AM

Has anyone read "I Don't Know How She Does It" by Allison Pearson (I think - apologies if I've got it wrong). It is a novel about a mum of two working full-time as an investment banker. Very interesting and completely appropriate to this discussion!

I think it can be done, but depends on
1. flexible and reliable childcare
2. a supportive spouse/family
3. how supportive/understanding your employer is.
4. your organisational skills

I am a solicitor by profession and have chosen to work part-time (3 days a week) in an insurance company which allows me to keep a hand in but is also treading water, career wise. Unlike my collegues in private practice, I have pretty regular 8:30 - 5pm hours, no pressure (though I do bring work home) and a very family-friendly employer - there are 6 part-time solicitors in my section. On a good week, I have the perfect balance of work/life. On a bad week I am doing neither job well. I am lucky enough to be on a decent salary which allows me to have a bit left over after paying for childcare - enough to make it worth continuing anyway!

My DH earns more than I do, fortunately, and also has to travel with his job.

I have chosen to tread water with my career while the kids are young and envisage that one day I will return to work full-time and start climbing that corporate ladder again. I know I am lucky to have this choice.

I have a few friends who are rising through the ranks with young children in private practice and to be honest I'm not sure I could do it, although I admire them tremendously. For example, they frequently have to go back into the office after they have put their babies to bed and continue working until midnight, then start in the office at 7am the next day, to get it all done because of lack of support from their employer. I'm not entirely sure that kind of sacrifice is worth it, but maybe in a few years time it will be.

DD Siobhan 2000<BR>DS Matthew: 2002
#3 EDD: 11/10/2004

I agree with kazpi (Karen) - I could have written her post!

I'm just so grateful that Dh's salary allows me to be a SAHM. It was something we agreed on before having children - that one of us would be fulltime at home.

I was bored in the early days at home and it took quite some time for me to accept that I was a SAHM (I was embarrased by the stereotype of a SAHM! )

I love being the one that gives my kids a kiss and cuddle as I wave them off at the classroom door. I love that I'm the one that they run up to as I pick them up from school. I love that it's me that gets to make them that after school snack as they come running in the door saying "I'm soooo hungry Mum"

I absolutely adore the one-on-one time I have with Jackson 3 days a week (goes to Kindergarten 2 days) as it was something I didn't have much of with either child.

I love being a SAHM!



Liz
Daniel Lee 5yrs
Jackson Brennan 4yrs

It is a constant juggle isn't it... Its such an individual choice and each family's needs are so different. My experience is right up until DS was born, I believed I would go back to work full time as I had my 'job of a lifetime' etc etc. But once I held that baby, my beliefs were turned on their heads.

I did try to work full time in my old job (they let me do it from home) AND take care of bubs and I lasted 6 months. Just too much pressure for me as I really wanted to pay all my attention to my gorgeous wiggling baby boy, who was growing so damn fast!

So I set up my own business when DS was about 18 months old and am very lucky in the fact that I have skills that I can use as a WAHM (i did think about this years ago when I picked my career that I knew I would eventually want to be a WAHM) and very well paid skills too. DH earns a very decent salary too which helps enormously.

I find this situation just perfect for my family as I really would dislike putting DS in daycare so young, and DH minds him whilst I work. I find being at home very very rewarding and LOVE that DH and I are the main carers in our son's life.

Maybe its possible to "have it all" for some. You have got to really really crave that huge work load. However, for many of us, I agree that I don't think it is possible to have it all at once. I have worked for others for many years, and will do again in the near future but this is my time to work for my family. Sure its not paid as well as an office job and gets really boring on occasion, but for me, the highs at home are so much higher than any you would get in an office. Its a few years of staying at home, but I think my family will feel those benefits for many years to come.

~~~~~~~~~~
[dh]+[ds] 07.02

[img]http://preg.fertilityfriend.com/pregticker/3a9b2/[/img]

I'd like to add a different twist to the topic, that is, women who put off having children to pursue their career.

Last weekend on the Sunday show (Channel 9), there was a story about women who have had the wrong impression and think that they can delay pregnancy and pursue their careers, only to find later on that they are having trouble conceiving or it is too late.

If anyone would like to read the transcript, it can be found on the NineMSN website under the Sunday program. The story was called Missed Conceptions (or something like that).

There are a few women I work with here who are delaying pregnancy because they are afraid of giving up their lifestyles. I mentioned to them that once you turn 35, the risks of problems/difficulties increases, it was amazing that none of them were aware of this.

Im 26 (bday today ) and my pregnancy was unplanned, but it has now made me realise that this was the best thing to happen to me, a career is just a "job" afterall. I no longer have the ambition that I used to have, however I still want to return to work for financial reasons in 6 months time. Whether I will though, is a different story.

Well, to start with, I hate the term ‘supermum’ it has all sorts of implications that I don’t agree with. At the end of the day, I reckon every family has to do what’s right for them. Women can ‘have it all’ if they want to – it’s as simple as that to me, and nothing to do with being a ‘supermum’. And even the phrase ‘have it all’ is a bit of a silly one, because ‘having it all’ can have a different interpretation for different people – I’m sure there are many, many SAHM who feel that they do indeed ‘have it all’! I know heaps and heaps of women who successfully combine work and motherhood – in fact, like me, I reckon they couldn’t imagine being at home all the time, and totally giving up their work.

Where I get annoyed is for women who feel they *have* to work full time (or part time) but would really prefer to be caring for their children, but they *have* to, to meet financial requirements etc. I kinda fall into this category. I would much prefer to work part time, but I feel I *have* to work full time to meet our current financial commitments as well as saving for another child. We basically have to save enough money to pay the mortgage for the period I will be on maternity leave. My DH earns quite a lot less than I do, and surviving on his wage alone really isn’t an option (well, not if want to pay the mortgage off *and* eat!). I think it’s really sad that family life has been decimated by the ever increasing power of the dollar.

Personally, I have found that I am far less career oriented now that I have a child – I enjoy my work, but I could easily do it part time and get the same fulfilment, and I feel no burning desire to move ‘up the ladder’, but I wouldn’t want to stop working altogether either – it would do my head in to be at home all the time. I need the stimulation of the work environment (I learned that when on mat leave the first time!).

Anyway, that said, we manage quite well. DS goes to daycare which he really loves, I work and fit grocery shopping, cleaning, washing etc into after work hours without too many problems. My house does not look like a tip – it really doesn’t take that much effort to keep your house clean and tidy (and no, I don’t have a cleaner) especially if you do little bits as you go. Doing a little bit here and there adds up to keeping your house clean. The one thing I do find a bit hard to keep up with is ironing – I often find myself madly ironing clothes 3 minutes before I need to leave the house! It does mean being organised, but I’ve never found that difficult.

It really comes down to different people wanting/needing/enjoying different things in life. I agree with KarenK, the women’s movement has been a mixed blessing. I think we now need to be more accepting all round of the choices people make in life – parenting is not a ‘lesser’ choice, having a family is not a ‘lesser’ choice – unfortunately it is portrayed as such (whether you work or not – if I had a dollar for everytime I’ve had a snide comment from a baby-boomer feminist who has no children at my place of work… I’d have quite a substantial sum of money by now, I tell ya!), and women who choose to stay at home *are* in a sense discriminated against for making the choice to stay home. On the other hand too, women who choose to work have another set of difficulties because often they are expected to put their job before their family and that’s really hard.

I think overall, we need to raise the profile of families (not just mothers) – children are seen far too often as being a ‘burden’, which is totally wrong. I think our society needs to realise that a family is far more important than any job/career – but it seems that’s not the case these days (hence the growing number of women finding they’ve missed the boat as far as having children goes – because, amongst other reasons, they’ve felt pressured by society to have the ‘career’ and have delayed motherhood). It also needs to be realised that the mother is not the only person responsible for family life – I think the diversity of different types of families needs to be accepted and promoted and the business community and government need to be more supportive of *all* families. Flexibility for families must be promoted and I think it’s even more important that this flexibility is promoted for fathers as well as mothers. After all, families are the future.


Cheers
Narelle

DS - 10/07/2002
TTC #2 - April 2004

This message was edited by NarelleC on Thursday, 6 May 2004 @ 11:28 AM

Wow, Narelle, good post!! I agree!



Desirée XXX

I think Sputnik got it right - it's all about choices and there's way too many! I mean, i have problems deciding which way to brush my hair in the morning (hon, does this look alright???) tee-hee!!!

I really think it's whatever works for you. I have a pretty good, decent paid job that i go to 2 days a week. It could be a "career" but I prefer to take the relaxed route and devote my energy to my family.

My mum arrives at my house at 7am, to look after DD while i get ready, have brekky and my dad drops me to the train station at 8am. Dh picks me up at 5pm and we arrive home to a lovely cooked dinner, tidy house, bathed and fed daughter. The 5 of us sit down (round 2 for DD) and have dinner once DH & I have showered. then Mum & dad leave. I am VERY VERY VERY lucky.

For us childcare is not an option because at this age i would prefer for charlotte to have 1 on 1 attention. However, i am definitely considering putting her in if i have another bubba.

On my 3 days off i get the housework, laundry, shopping done, visit friends and spend time with DD. It's a perfect balance for our family.

I go to work for financial reasons. DH is on quite a good salary which will be going up substantially in a few months at which stage we will be comfortable enough for me to stay at home. I will continue to work until I halfway thru pregnancy 2 as the extra cash is always welcome and i am lucky enough to have a very comfortable situation.

I think each woman needs to weigh up what's most important to her. I think the women's revolution has definitely taken away from family values. The pendulum has swung too far and I'm not sure that there are enough women out there that completely reap all the benefits of it. Just my opinion.

Tan xoxo

Charli Rose 23/2/03

I have only a few words to add...it is very hard, you have to be extremely organised and you do feel constantly guilty, either because you feel you aren't contributing as much as you should at work or because you feel like you aren't spending enough time with your kids. I don't know if I have made the "right" choice because it was my ONLY choice to go back to work.

IMHO, I think it is weird and just a little bit sad for a mum to return to work 10 days after having a baby.

Heidi <BR>DH Wayne<BR>DS Jeremy Erik 25/10/01 <BR>DS Tobias William 14/03/03 <BR>

We've heard a lot about the 'Supermum' type of mum over the past few years - the kind who can have children, a career, and maintain a tidy house.
Is this possible ?
What are your experiences ?

Of course it is possible and TBH I am sick of people telling me they are sorry that I "have" to work. I infact feel sorry for women that stay at home (could think of nothing worse) I do not have to work, my DH is well paid and I could be a SAHM if I wanted. Simple fact is I don't. I enjoy work and want to be there. I am lucky I have a job that allows me to work part time until I choose to return full time.

It does all come down to being organised and being committed to it working. As for the tidy house... I have a cleaner

I don't feel my kids miss out by being in daycare 3 days a week, they love it there and are far more stimulated than if they were at home with me 24/7, infact I don't even feel guilty.

Do you think there too many pressures on modern women ?

No I don't, I am glad I am a modern woman with choices. My mother started her family in the 60's, she was sacked as soon as she fell pregnant and that was it, no choice, nothing. She had 4 kids, cause thats what you did, she has admitted that 2 would have been fine (thank goodness she had 4 I am the youngest). She also suffered depression for quite a long time. She has admitted that being a SAHM was awful and she is envious that I have the choice to work.

This is ridiculous - Everyone knows and still I am waiting

I am a SAHM and I wish I was working for the stimulation. My DH works 2 jobs full time and 2 nights a week so I don't have to work. We are lucky he makes really good money between the 2. My DD is going into daycare 2 days a week next year for my sanity as I have been suffering PND.

I think those that can do both good luck. I am the highly organised person that could do both but going to Gymbaroo and swimming which is important for DD is more important at the moment. I have attempted to study but just don't have the time.

I have a question for the SAHM's do you do all the yard work and house work as well as raising kids, not to mention keeping on top of everything meidcation neeldes pets other family etc I do so I can have time with DH and DD on the weekend? By doing this I believe I am a supermum because I can get all this done and finish renovating a house. Any mums that do this too I believe we are the supermums!!!!!

luv Ya's
Nicole & Amy 12/11/03
The happiest little girl I know!
www.babiesonline.com/babies/a/amy121103/

Children, career and a tidy house...Yes I think it is possible.

I work in my chosen profession 3 days a week while DS goes to daycare and I have done this since he was 7 months old. I feel he has benefitted greatly from childcare, he is one happy,happy, outgoing boy. I am working because I choose to. I also have a small business which pretty much runs itself and I do the books. I will probably continue with this arrangement until I have another child then reassess. Even though I am working in my field I do not have the passion for furthering my career like I did pre motherhood. He is my passion, and obviously the only person I am completely responsible for. I am more or less just keeping my hand in with my career, and will throw myself back in to it when he is at school etc.

As for the tidy house, yep the house is tidy, but the garden and the yard can be a different story most days.

The one thing I find is really difficult on my working days is exercising. Otherwise I seem to fit most things in.

I think there are lots of pressures on the modern Mum, but where I am I have alot bigger pressures to become a SAHM than a working Mum.

I love this topic and peoples views on it.

Megan
DS Will 1/8/02

Kim,

Please don't feel sorry for those that stay at home, I certainly,
feel lucky and honored to be able to stay at home, once I
resign in a couple of weeks. I can't think of anything better
than being a SAHM

Anna

No probs Anna, as long as you don't feel sorry for the happy working mothers.

This is ridiculous - Everyone knows and still I am waiting

Definitely not. We all make our choices. As long as people are happy doing what they are doing, and the child/ren are in a safe, happy environment, all to their own, I don't care/mind.

Anna

This message was edited by johnandanna on Thursday, 6 May 2004 @ 9:59 PM

Hmm..tough questions....

Is this possible? This is possible BUT....u'll need lots of effort to make it possible.

What are your experiences ? I'm not going back to work full time. Instead of it I started my own business from home. Now I have online shop. While I have my own career that I choose, I can stay with Dasha at home and watch her all the time.

Do you think there too many pressures on modern women ? No. It's just the matter how u organise ur family life. That's it.

It's a bit too self confidence while a mother can say I'm succesful in career and motherhood while she worked long hours and leave the kid with someone else :confuse: . Is it called succesfull in motherhood while the kid knew someone else better?? Someone else who spent almost all the time with them rather than their own mum?? I don't think so :confuse: . I believe there are lots of guilty feeling covered with too much self confidence if u r insist to say so. While u r proud sitting on ur high horse..I hope one day u won't regret if ur kid saying r u my mom??...Jeez... I never know that!!



This message was edited by Yani77 on Thursday, 6 May 2004 @ 10:15 PM

Karen, I did not say I felt guilty all the time but I would be lying if I said I never felt guilty. I also truly believe there are a lot of mums out there who feel as I do but don't want to admit it.

I enjoy my job too and can't imagine doing anything else. However, not everyone is as career-oriented as some or a professional for that matter (like you, myself and others). I have already done in everything in my career that I wanted to so my career aspirations are minimal. Ideally I would love to own my business/be my own boss to get a better balance between work and family.

For now, I just slog through the day and be as organised as possible.

FWIW, I don't have a cleaner because I am so picky (my problem though LOL). I also have a hard time finding time to exercise so I do it at lunch.

I also agree with Kim that daycare is terrific for my kids. They both love it and get way more stimulation than if they were home with me full-time.

Heidi <BR>DH Wayne<BR>DS Jeremy Erik 25/10/01 <BR>DS Tobias William 14/03/03 <BR>

As we all have mentionedtime and time again it is what evr works for YOU and YOUR family system.

I believe that my life is only balanced as we are all so organised and satisfied.
I would not be satisfied being at home with my munchkins every day that is it. I love them dearly, they love their mum, and being their mum i have to be true to my needs.

I am lucky, I do have a choice. I dont need to work, Dh 's salary is comfortable . The money isnt it...The rest I need to be me.

I am studying a full time post grad-honours degree in Psychology (developmental) and work as a councellor and still have an interactive life with my children.
My dh has a pretty full on career in the marine industry and we renovate houses and sell them as a hobby, so sometimes...yep..it does all seem like me take on to much.
BUT this is our life and we do it and I like it!

Yes, supermum is possible, if this term means a balanced organised life.
You can do what ever you want to do. Life is all about your choices and doing the right thing for your family.

The housework aspect is easly (and I have kids that are walking trash monsters!) it is just important to have an egalitarian relationship, if dh can watch TV he can scrub the tiles and watch while I am at a clinical psych seminar every wednesday!

It is just all about balance and respect. Acknowledging that time is important and it needs to be managed well.

My munchkins are the most secirely attached, well manner little characters you will ever meet. I am a daycare advocate. They have both gone one day a week from 3 months, and I believe this helps them to interact and their overall psychosocial development.

Conor had to talk about faily and family roles at kindy during the week. his talk was that he is proud that 'mum is busy and he does lots of stuff'.

so, to sum up.it is all choices. if you believe that at the end of the day you are happy and contented, then you are a supermum!

Mich
Conor monster 23/6/00
Ella monkey 2/12/02

This is a subject close to my heart , unfortunately i have not yet been blessed with a child , which is something i have wanted for as long as i can remember.This is mainly based on my experience so far , my parents both worked full time and i do remember spending alot of time with my grandparents , but when we moved to the city there was no one to care for us , we would arrive at 7.00 am at before school care , and then stay until 7.00 pm at after school care.I even remember going to school care during the holidays , whereas my DH came home to his mum and cookies and milk every after noon , i have memories of being a lonely child and he has memories of being so loved and looked after.

I know it also depends alot on the child , i was never a confident child.I have worked in childcare and i have seen children not notice their parents dropping them off and loving their day and i have seen children stare at the door or the gate all day just waiting .

Its all about personal choices and i really admire women who have careers and raise a family , but it is my choice to have children and i will put them first , i would have much rathered have my mum at home as a child , i am not a materialistic person and would have loved family time with my parents , i didn't even see my father during the week.

This is my personal opinion and again i really admire women who can do both , i married young and put off finding a career because i knew i wanted to be a mum first.
Wen xox

ME 25
DH 24
TTC 2001

I have a good career in the public service, so have been lucky in that I have been able to access maternity leave. But as I earn almost double my husband's salary it means that I can't really take more time on unpaid leave if the mortgage is to be paid. I have just had our second baby and have to start back at work in 4 weeks, at which point he will be 8 weeks old - and I've spent a lot of the past few days in tears about it. The worst aspect is trying to arrange child care with someone I trust but can also afford - our combined income puts us out of the bracket for rebates or government subsidies but we still aren't rich - I guess we're part of the middle class that Mark Latham is referring to as being 'squeezed' by this government.

One thing that irritates me is that I still carry the burden of house cleaning, child care etc even though I work full time. My husband is pretty good - compared to everyone else I know he is fantastic - but he still takes a lot for granted. There has always been an expectation that I drop off and pick up our daughter from daycare (ie work strict 9-5 hours even though my employer pays more - but he needs to be able to work extended hours if necessary), I do most of the cooking, tidying, cleaning etc. He is open-minded - in our current struggle to find day care he has even suggested he give up work to look after the kids - but he has never been alone with even the eldest for more than about 3 hours at a stretch, so I think he really has no idea about what is involved.

In the end I think it IS possible to be a good mother and have a good career - and maybe even a tidy house! - but it is SO MUCH WORK and there is so little real recognition or respect for it!!

In the end I think it is important for me for a range of reasons. I am devoted to my children but I have to admit that I would feel stifled and frustrated if I were looking after them 24/7 for long periods - I have other skills that I enjoy using. I like the idea that they are being cared for by someone who regards that sort of activity in a professional/career light - ie someone who researches child development, thinks up stimulating and fun activities and takes them to playgroups and other outings. Obviously, I am glad that I can offer them advantages like a secure and comfortable home and a safe car and, one day, plenty of books, sporting activities, all those other things that cost money. And finally I do think there is a role for mothers as role models. I'd like my kids to look at both their parents and see us as people who've travelled, had adventures, done interesting things and carved out careers for ourselves in different fields. My daughter is happy, well-adjusted, confident and bright, so it seems to have worked well with her so far; it has certainly meant that she is well socialised - I was paralysed by shyness as a child and was terrified of going anywhere unfamiliar or meeting anyone new. As an elder child, too, if I hadn't placed her in care she would have had fewer opportunities for play, sharing and associating with kids her age. I worry about my son because he'll be so small when he starts - but I am hoping that, by putting some investment into my career now, I might be able to reduce my hours when they're at school and might at that stage be more fussy about the people they spend time with.

In the end I think we all have to do what is right for us. I envy women whose husbands can support them, but I know that if we gave up a lot of things we are used to we could do the same. But I don't buy the "love is more important than money" line. Going back to work doesn't mean you love your kids less - it often reflects your desire to give them the best opportunities. It is just about showing your love in different ways.

jimmie

You know what gets me about these conversations? People who have absolutely no experience of childcare claiming that children in childcare don’t know their parents and that if you work outside the home then you’re not putting your children first. What a load of rubbish! We’re all entitled to our own opinions, but seriously these sorts of melodramatic statements are not helpful to anybody!

I’m with the other women who say they don’t feel guilty about working – I don’t either! I would prefer to work part time – but that’s from an entirely selfish perspective really, because my DS loves daycare, whereas I would like to have a couple of days home with him, oh, and by the way, I don’t see him calling anyone else ‘Mummy’, or having any confusion whatsoever about who his parents are. I mean, if you follow that reasoning, then a child should never know who their working father is either, should they? Or is that somehow different?

As for not putting your children first if you put them in childcare, well there’s always a lot of debate about that. But I believe happy parents = happy children, so if by working and putting them in daycare works for your family, how can this not be putting them first? Or would it be better to have thousands of mothers at home, absolutely hating every minute of it and resenting their children? Then there’s the financial side of things, I know I’d hate to be wondering how I was going to pay my power bill etc if I was a SAHM, and I *know* that this would truly be the case if I did not work.

So let’s stop slagging off at the choices different families make, and be accepting of everyone’s right to choose what’s right for their family. At the end of the day, this issue is more than just about a mother’s choice and pressures, it’s about family choices and pressures – after all the last time I checked a family is made up of more than just the mother!


Cheers
Narelle

DS - 10/07/2002
TTC #2 - April 2004

Just another thought, I think we are lucky in a way that our kids don't miss what they dont know either.... Kids in daycare 5 times a week are happy - as that is what they know, same as with children who are at home with their mothers .... we should count our lucky stars that kids are so adaptable and we all feel like we have the happiest, well adjusted kids ever... in our own private family situation.

Our kids adaptability is a huge factor in helping us be Supermums, dont you think? Without their happiness, we wouldn't be able to do what we are doing....

~~~~~~~~~~
[dh]+[ds] 07.02

[img]http://preg.fertilityfriend.com/pregticker/3a9b2/[/img]

Couldn't agree more Pixiedeep!

I'd be the first to admit that I couldn't do what I do if my child was unhappy in his daycare situation - or it'd be a hell of a lot harder emotionally!

Cheers
Narelle

DS - 10/07/2002
TTC #2 - April 2004

This message was edited by NarelleC on Friday, 7 May 2004 @ 11:37 AM

Can I please say that I'm a supermum too. I really do feel that I'm a superduper mum and I don't even have a career. Why is the "supermum" status only reserved for working OTH mums and not SAHM's?...we BOTH WORK!!! I know I get told that I'm a supermum all the time! It's tough being a SAHM...don't think for a minute that we have it easy, no way!!!!!



Desirée XXX

Precisely the reason why I hate the term 'supermum' to start with Desiree!

Cheers
Narelle

DS - 10/07/2002
TTC #2 - April 2004

Well normally I work full time out of the home (am on maternity leave ATM) But i don't class myself as a supermum by any means, if anything i feel as though i'm failing my children by not being there for them and always being tired and grumpy!
But quite honestly I NEED to work so my family can make ends meet, i've only been on maternity leave for 5wks and already we're struggling to pay the bills!
It CAN be done but it's NOT easy!
When i work it's 40+ hrs per week, doesn't leave alot of time for anything else and i hardly see my husband because he works nights and i work days and we STILL have to put the kids in full time day-care otherwise he would not sleep!
We don't end up with that much extra money after child-care fees are paid, but it's still more than what we are on at the moment.
I don't think there are too many pressure on modern women, more of a pressure on the whole family unit now, in most circumstances both parents need to work just so they can provide a decent home and food for their kids!

*~*~*~*BABY DUST~*~*~*~*
Linda 29 Paul 29
Ebony Lea 7/12/93
Victoria Florence Rose
14/12/2000
Connor Scott Thomas 11/10/2002!!
PG with #4 EDD 2nd June 2004!!!
[img]http://lilypie.com/days/040531/1/12/0/+10[/img]

Narelle,

My point isn't valid to u. U don't have to feel offended if u r not working long hours and have ur own nanny IYKWIM. I'm not bagging children in childcare as well. That's different story. I don't have to explain a lot but if u think u r the person that I described in my previous post then it's up to u. Same as everyone else I also have right to point out NOT every mother can claim they're success while we know there a very little time they spent with their children. I hope u get my point and recalled ur post about that melodramatic statements.



This message was edited by Yani77 on Friday, 7 May 2004 @ 2:55 PM

No Yani, I didn’t think you were referring directly to me at all – I just think that what you said can be interpreted as meaning that children who attend daycare/are cared for by a nanny don’t know their parents, which is not the case, which I do think is melodramatic and exaggerated, but perhaps this wasn’t your intention. However, it seems you may have been trying to refer to one person specifically and I shouldn’t have interpreted a broader meaning to your comments. I wasn’t ‘offended’ by what you said, I just think that a lot of people make comments about situations that they don’t really know about, and frankly, I think this is what you have done. I don’t know anything about what it’s like to be a SAHM/WAHM, so I don’t make negative comments about it – each family has the right to choose how they organise their family life.

I agree with you that probably not all working mothers are successful in combining both work and family, but then that depends on your definition of ‘successful’ too. What you might think is too little time spent with a child, might be just right for that particular family.

I say again: Each family has to do what works for them!


Cheers
Narelle

DS - 10/07/2002
TTC #2 - April 2004

This message was edited by NarelleC on Friday, 7 May 2004 @ 3:34 PM

Please, please don't let this thread decline into one of those a SAHM Vs working mum or day care vs SAHM thing.

No choice is better than the other. No one makes a superior choice over someone else. You just make the choice that is best for you and your family. If you are happy with what you are doing, then great...I like happy mums and I am sure your hubbie and children do as well. If you are not happy with your choice(s) then do something about it.

BTW If you think you have made superior choices to someone else then just look in the mirror and bask in your smugness because no one else gives two hoots.

Sputnik - superior to no one and one happy mum.

I don't think you have to have be a mum and hold a job to be a supermum. There are plenty of supermums out there that stay at home.

I have been finding motherhood and career hard to combine too. DS is almost 8 months and I've been working 4 days since he was 4.5 months.

Heidi, I know exactly what you mean about feeling guilty. In my field of work (biomedical research), people work quite long hours, particularly if they are career-oriented. I haven't been particularly enthusiastic about my work for the last few years, but still I worked 9.30 am to 7 pm, with occassional weekend work (no overtime payment etc). Now with childcare time limits, the longest I can work is 8 am to 5 pm (or 7.40 to 5.20 to be really stretching it). Doing this, I then feel guilty for picking up DS so late from childcare, since he's still so young.

Already, working 8 - 5, I feel I don't spend enough time with DS. I set my alarm for 5.30, we leave the house at 7 (supposedly), and get home around 5.45. He usually is tired and sleeping around 7. Between the feeding and changing etc, there's not much time left for play!

I've been thinking about changing job, but to what? Something that requires little time and pays a lot! Does this exist? Being at work does stop me from going shopping and spending heaps of money though, and I need the intellectual stimulation too, which I missed after a few months away from work. I think everyone needs to find a happy balance for themselves, which I'm still trying to find.

Me - 31
DH - 35
DS James 15/9/03

Motherhood & careers? Aren't they the same thing?

I cannot comment as a mother with an external working career from home, and an internal working career within the home - as I have chosen to keep these two mammoth obligations separate. For me it was not possible. I am not someone who can commit by halves. It has to be all my effort or nothing - otherwise I feel like I'm pouring continual energy into a project I'll only be half-satisfied with.

The reality for other mum's who have combined the two careers, is something I cannot truly comment on as I've had no experience juggling both obligations so far. I considered working part-time, but I cannot find childcare arrangements that I'm willing to trust my daughter's care to, at the price I can afford. I'm hoping that family can help with childcare, but it's looking a tad unreliable, so I've decided to stay at home for the moment. We can afford it - just.

I did have to mention something about one particular comment though:



Sorry Karen, it caught my eye and I had to disagree. I am one of those women with no desire to combine the two, and I don't happen to think the women's movement has provided me with a crock. If anything, it's given me the opportunity to make a choice. One I use liberally according to the abilities I feel I'm strongest in. Everyone is made up of a different psychological profile. Mine is happiest, when I can focus intently on one thing at a time. I become inefficient when I half my intensity.

Of course, that doesn't apply to everyone. It just happens to be my psychological profile. In knowing my strengths though, I can succeed in living. When I ignore them, I fail. So success is subjective to the individual I feel. My success is at home because I have chosen to have a family. Someone else's success can differ enormously in lifestyle, but that doesn't mean the sense of achievement has altered any.

This is the challenge of the modern woman today, which does carry a lot of pressure with it. How do you calculate success on your own terms when there are so many choices to make? It would be easy to assume that women who don't opt to have all the choices available - are somehow doing without or failing miserably? Yet if it is true a woman can do anything she sets her mind to, why can't she reserve the right to make fewer choices and still be considered a success?


Christo




Sarah May Riley: 2/5/03
DH: proud daddy and a damn fine chef ;p


Respect means learning how to listen...

This message was edited by Christo on Friday, 7 May 2004 @ 9:21 PM

Oh..ok..so KK when u said u work very looooong hours was a joke hey?? Now I got it.

well I am currently combining motherhood and careers and for the most part I enjoy it.

My DH and I are both at university full time.

I work 14 hours a week as Integration Aide(I am working towards being a teacher)

When I am not at work, my DH is at uni and I am home looking after DS and trying to study (as well as fit in playgroup etc etc). It makes for a fairly hectic lifestyle - but I wonder what would happen if we didn't have all these committments - what would I do? Being in this situation has prob helped us financially as well - cause we just don't have the money to burn!

Unfortunately I don't have any nanny, childcare (DH and I share the care), no cleaner... but we get on alright. We are pretty poor but are working ahead to achieve our goals.

If we had a bit more money I would prefer to drop some uni subjects so I could have more time at home - but unfortunately - the way the govt payments work, I have to be full time.

As for my job - I love LOVE love working where i do - I feel like I get away from all my responsibilities and do work I love and get paid for it. I missed it while I was on mat leave and was back within 5 months.

For me it is hard to combine it all. I think it would be easier if we had more money and not stress about everything so much and maybe able to afford cleaners, nannies to make life easier etc - but its cool I am not complaining. I still am mostly happy.

I am very happy with the fact that DH spends so much time with DS too - while I am at work. Can't beat that I say!

Good on all the mums for combining their careers with motherhood! Its tough!

Alexis x

Jude 13.5.03

i believe, if you can bring a child into this world, raise him/her well, have enough money to eat and not have rats in your house, then you are super; regardless of whether you're mum or dad.

I work and i am a mum. Who cares what else i do? or how i *juggle* the two? I guess, *judgement* day will come when R becomes an adult and whether or not he's in jail. and *judgement* will be made by myself. HAVE i done enough for my son?

SAHM/WAHM - honestly, no one can tell looking at a child; so why is there such heated arguments??

Karenk, you work full time, have a nanny and find it all easy and love it; fantastic.

Des, you are a full time SAHM and you love it; fantastic.

I am a mixture of the two and i love it; fantastic.

The only pressure put on the *modern women* is by other *modern women*. I mean, look at this thread!!!







[center]The ability to speak does not make you intelligent

*~Shel~*
~Riley~ 22.1.03

I know I technically don't qualify to comment under "Motherhood" & careers, however, on the behalf of all working Dads, I have to ask what I consider to be an important question.

Just because a father works, does that make him less of a parent? I don't wish to start a debate on exactly how much a mother does for the family as opposed to the father - I just find it interesting that men are expected to do both and never earn the right to be called 'superdad'.

I am a father but I am also a worker, and I find it painfully hard to have options in my life that will allow me to be there for my wife and child, anywhere near as much as I'd like to be. I need to work, I like to work and wouldn't want to stop going - but it would also be nice to spend more time with my family.

So I would like to believe that all things are possible. That mums who also choose to have careers, are successful in both aspects of their lives. Equally, that mums who choose to stay at home should be given all the credit they deserve for being as committed as they are. Finally, that fathers who are away from their families for many hours on a daily basis, are considered just as super as any mum in their own way.