[Kelly'sDad]

Hi all,

I am sorry for such a long post but I just wanted to make sure I gave all the relevant info. It is our first post on here, but have been reading the site for weeks and found it very helpful.

We had our first child two weeks ago, a little boy named Kelly.

It was a difficult delivery and ending up with an emergency c-section and that combined with some feeding issues my wife experienced in hospital meant that for the first few days home we had fed him formula.

Now we have been trying to get him back on the breast but with nipple confusion and the horrible catch-22 of not having enough supply so still having to supplement with formula has meant even more nipple confusion.

So Mum has been busy pumping like mad all week and trying to get him back on breast, but she has been having a hard time, when he finally does latch on after an hour of crying he will feed but will still be hungry, resulting in having to give him formula.

So what we are trying to do at the moment is pump as much as possible to get supplies up, which is working really well at the moment, and feeding him breastmilk by bottle. Our theory is that once Mum can supply him everything he needs from breast (hopefully now) we can then get him back on breast safe in the knowledge he is getting enough.

FYI, baby has been getting around 90mls of formula, 6-7 times a day, and only waking up once in the night for a feed. All in all pretty good, though he is now showing signs that he wants a bit more so we are going to be feeding him 120ml from today on.

So today Mum has gone out for a break and I am in charge. I had 180ml of breast milk in the fridge, so when he woke up I fed him 90ml - not enough. So I put another 30ml in a bottle and he drank that and immediately was screaming. I burped him, checked his nappy, but no, he was still hungry! so I gave him the other 60ml and he drank it all. But he was still hungry! So I ended up making 30ml of formula and he drank that too!!

So for a baby who has been getting full on 90ml of formula he ended up having 210ml for lunch today before he was full.

So my question is, what is going on? is it possible that Mum's breastmilk is just milk coloured water? He cannot be getting anything from it at all. Where the hell is it all going? 210ml is loads for such a tiny stomach.

We really want to breastfeed but this last couple of weeks has been a real strain on Mum and I can tell she is ready to pack it in and just go with formula. To be honest I can't say I blame her.

Is it possible that some people just cannot make milk that can adequately feed a baby?

[trishalishous]

some people cannot make enough milk, but it is rare (im one of them)
is your wife taking meds to increase supply?
have you tried a nipple sheild to help bubs attach to the boob?
have you tried a supplementary nursing system, to cut back on bottles, and stimulate the breast while feeding?
lots of skin to skin contact, and if possible go to bed/couch for the day and just cuddle and boob all day.
the australian breastfeeding association will be able to help you over the phone, or a home visit. 1800 686 268

[Winterdanceparty]

Breastmilk works by supply and demand and if you are feeding formula, you are damaging your supply, as then your baby will not take much breastmilk as he has had formula. You need to get him back onto breastmilk from your breasts as soon as possible, before the damage is done and he really does want the bottle instead of the breast. He is drinking all that formula from the bottle, because a bottle is easy to drink from and he is just guzzling down because it is there. He needs to milk the breast, by constant nuzzling and feeding and even feeding every two hours in a 24 hour period. The constant feeding at the breast will stimulate your milk supply and you will then find that he will be contented. Little babies need to feed every 1-2 hours during the 24 hour period in the first few weeks and many babies have 17 feeds, while the average is 11 feeds. But if formula and bottles get in the way, you will find he may prefer the bottles and you will never get him back to the breast. Formula does not have the antibodies and nutrition that your baby needs and formula fed babies get constipated and sometimes become obese children, because of the constant bottle feeding of formula.

[Winterdanceparty]

Please phone the Australian Breastfeeding Association helpline ASAP, because you really need help and you can talk to a counsellor any time - night or day. Please don't go down the path of formula and bottles, or even bottles with expressed breastmilk - use a syringe or an open cup and give your baby little sips.

[Escapin]

Your wife needs a professional lactation consultant. Are you in Sydney? I can PM you the details of the lady I used - I wouldn't still be breastfeeding now if it wasn't for her.

[CallMeProtart]

In the end it's up to you whether formula feeding is easier and reduces the stress.

But I'd suggest breastfeeding more often if that's possible (and he's emptying the breast), to stimulate flow, and also to swap boobs several times whenever he finishes one (suggested by my lactation consultant when I had trouble with supply) - this lets the other boob produce a wee bit more while the first one is working, and then get emptied again which stimulates it some more. The baby empies the boobs more efficiently than a pump does, so if you can stimulate this way, I think it will be more effective than stimulating by pumping. Pumping can still happen between feeds, but as often as the baby can empty the breast, the better, stimulation wise.

Also make sure the nipple on the bottle is as slow flow as you can make it (eg. a no. 1 on an Avent bottle), to reduce the difference between how hard bubs has to work between bottle and breast.

Also google things to stimulate supply - fennel tea/tablet is a good one. My aunt's old wives recipe is lots of shark (I think it's called flake at the shops?) - who knows if that works! There is also something the Dr can prescribe to assist supply, can't remember the name but it might start with M?

Hope some of that helps!

[CallMeProtart]

As PP's have said - what about a lactation consultant? There should be one attached to the hospital that your baby was born at - maybe look them up. And if you went public they will probably be free to see. I probably would not have successfully breastfed first time around if not for mine, also.

[tlc73]

HI guys, no one ever tells you that breast feeding is really hard. It takes most people a month to really get it right so if its something your wife really wants to do give it a little more time because you can't change your mind once you stop.
My story is similar to yours, emergency caesar, son ended up in ICU and I didn't see him until 8 hours after he was born. My supply didn't really come in on its own and he couldn't suck (eventually found he had a tongue tie and he did much better once that was snipped). Lactations consultants are amazing, find one!! There are meds to increase BM supply which your GP can prescribe as well as the old wives tale stuff.

I ended up on high doses of Motilium (and am still on a lower dose), I needed to supplement feed with formula (luckily my son would drink from anything although fed from the bottle at room temp so at least my breast milk had something going for it). My son is now 10months old, since starting solids he only gets breast fed and we hope to continue for a little while longer.

Good luck and however you end up feeding your son you are great parents.

[mayahlb]

Here is what I would do

• Organise to see a lactation consultant.
• Switch feed (once one side is empty swap to the other, then swap again up to 8 times, this helps a lot to improve supply)
• Pump after every feed
• Start on fenugreek and blessed thistle to help supply
• Buy a bottle like the medla calma where bub has to actually suck and work to get any milk out, therefore it isn't easier then the breast, or even use a giant syringe instead (you can get 30-60ml ones from the chemist)
• See if I could access a supplementary system (this is a tube taped next to the nipple with a supply of emb/formula that can be let down do bub is breastfeeding and being supplemented at the same time http://www.nursingangel.com.au/products/Me...stem-(SNS).html )
• Also if he is crying out in hunger I would only top him up with maybe 30-60mls formula then put him back on the boob

I had supply issues with both my children, my eldest refused the boob from day 1 (fed EBM and formula until 6 months before being fully formula fed) and my youngest wanted it all the time despite me just not producing enough and he was topped up with formula from 3 months and we mixed fed until he was 15 months.

[Preg_in_RSA]

My DS refused the breast for 7 weeks. I had a low supply so pumped like mad and then had to supplement about 50% with formula. Then at 7 weeks he finally got the idea and we have been going strong ever since. He is now 27 months and is addicted to his milkies.

Keep going and get some help.