[A Winters Day]

I see this ancient phrase thrown around a lot these days in regards to discipline of children and it seems people see it as to spare the rod means to avoid using physical force to hit a child for discipline reasons will mean they are spoilt.

However what irks me is as far as I was taught this actually has nothing to do with hitting a child with a 'rod' at all, but to spare a rod, means to let them run loose without any sort of guidence towards the behaviour you want to encourage.

I was taught this biblical saying has references to how a sheperd would use a rod (you know those big staff things that curl at the top) to guide the sheep (I guess a bit like sheep dogs or stockmen herding cattle) to wherever he was herding them too, to keep them on the right path, in the right direction. If he didn't use the rod to help direct them they would wander off, get lost and he would lose them. A sherperd doesn't hit his sheep with a rod he uses it to direct and guide.

So proverbially speaking if we 'spare the rod' with our children meaning we do not help guide them safely toward adulthood and help keep them on the right path, with morals and values, well we will 'spoil the child' and they will not become productive members of society.

Can anyone else confirm if they were taught this interpretation? I'm just bit sick of people throwing it about as if the bible is giving people permission to hit kids with a rod, stick etc when I don't believe that was the intended message.

Anyway I'm rambling now, but this is what I was taught...and it seems to make more sense to me anyway.

Thoughts

This post has been edited by ~Nessa~: 12/09/2011, 02:40 PM

[Guest_beXrated_*]

I like to think the Biblical rod was used by a shepherd to protect his sheep, and sometimes to beat the living daylights out of whatever was attacking his charges... and do you think criticising my lack of smacking counts as an attack?!


Yes, I read several years ago that the "rod" referred to in this verse is likely to be either a shepherd's crook (used to guide the direct the sheep but never to hit them) or a king's sceptre (again not used to beat the people, but to signify his authority)
I can't find anywhere in the Bible where beating your kids with a weapon is considered a Godly idea!

[Jip]

I thought it meant don't play Rod Stewart's music to your kids.

Which is good advice, really.

This post has been edited by Jip: 12/09/2011, 02:46 PM

[Saecularis Angel...]

I agree with you on that particular proverb.

However, physical discipline of children is definitely recommended elsewhere in the Bible - take Proverbs 23:13-14:

"Do not withhold discipline from your children;
if you beat them with a rod, they will not die.
If you beat them with the rod,
you will save their lives from Sheol."

I think - on balance - that the Bible gives us scope in how we discipline children. Physical discipline is a method it doesn't rule out. But it would need to be used in a way, which, for example, doesn't contravene this advice from Colossians: "Fathers, do not provoke your children, or they may lose heart." Or again from Ephesians: "And, fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord."

There is no mandate here for abuse.

[Tomahawk]

I thought it meant don't play Rod Stewart's music to your kids.

Which is good advice, really.

You're on fire today

[countrymel]

A friend of a friend married a man in some strange cult-like christian sect.

They used to line up the children and hit them every morning - sort of like a 'preventative measure'.... he somehow had found (and was fully supported by his 'congregation') justification for this in the bible.

I wonder if it is the verse AngeVert quoted?


And before the howling for DOCS starts - she DID come to her senses and with the help of a loving family managed to escape his clutches with the children. Who are now living smack and Jesus free under assumed names.

[*LucyE*]

There was a child in DS's class last year whose mother spoke of giving a smack in the morning as a preventative measure. This was a woman who had grown men in fear of her so I doubt she was joking.

[Guest_Buy Me A Pony!_*]

I grew up in a xian household, went to church and attended xian school. I've always known this phrase to refer to corporal punishment. It's been used in films and popular culture which reinforce my own ideas.

With most phrases in common use there is a commonly understood context. I don't agree that if someone interprets the meaning of it to be completely different from the wider usage, that it does change the meaning. I believe the bible is largely allegorical but many xians interpret it differently. Their different viewpoint still doesn't change the meaning for me. A rod differs greatly from a staff and the bible often refers to the herding of sheep... I'm sure there's a line in Psalms that refers directly to the saying though and I'm sure it has nothing to do with a rod or a staff or any physical punishment.

[~ky~]

I too, was taught that the verse referred to gentle guidance which could involve a gentle nudge on the rear (note, gentle, not violent) at the absolute most. My parents used it as justification for good, solid boundaries and teaching of good values and manners.

As a result, I have taken this verse as a guideline for my own family. My kids are guided, given boundaries and on the odd occasion where they could be in danger or are blatantly not listening, they get a light tap (that creates noise more than pain ie on the nappy when little) to "snap them out of it".

I think that a balanced approach to discpline and a loving family environment will result in well manner, happy and secure children. My kids seem to be all of these, thankfully ...

[aleithaki]

OP, I totally agree with your interpretation. This is also what I've been taught as a Christian. It's wrong when people assume that the bible commands us to use physical force with our kids.

This post has been edited by aleithaki: 12/09/2011, 04:14 PM