[adandtia]

France is one of three countries in the world that are technically secular. This is, religion and the state have been very clearly seperated for a long time. It is a consitutional matter and culturally very significant. Many French catholics do not wear the cross for this reason. This also might help explain how the Burqua is seen as not conductive with French way of life.

This. I'm undecided either way but I do understand where they are coming from. Why should it not be important to keep it a secular society?
Personally, I find the burqua very confronting. Not being able to see one's face makes it very difficult to comunicate with them.

[~~nik~~]

I suppose that all depends on whether or not the helmet-wearing person in question is a member of an established and recognized helmet-wearing faith. A hobby is not the same as one's religious practice.

The point is not WHY THE PERSON WEARS the helmut it but WHY ISN"T THE PERSON ALLOWED TO WEAR the helut in certain places. Would these reason not apply to any person covering their face?


My personal opinion is live and let live. If the burka is what they want to wear then let them wear it - much like if you want to wear a helmut all day long.

[niggles]

The point is not WHY THE PERSON WEARS the helmut it but WHY ISN"T THE PERSON ALLOWED TO WEAR the helut in certain places. Would these reason not apply to any person covering their face?

Bring to mind for a moment a deeply held belief that you have. I'm talking about a position that you wouldn't change and which would make you feel compromised to do so....Now imagine someone is comparing that to a trivial habit another person has and which they can change with at most a minor inconvenience.

That is the difference between a face covering which represents a moral belief and a bike helment, mask, fashion accessory etc.

[Oma Desala]

If we are going to ban the burqa - we need to ban all religious symbols.

All the international airports I have been through will take the woman aside and ask her to show her face to a female officer for identity purposes, and I have no problems with this, as it is a security issue.

This is also done in most banks when you need to prove your identification with photo ID. They ask you to join them in a side room so as not to offend the customer.

I have no problem with women wearing a burka. I see it no different to wearing a star of david or crucifix.

[Blish]

I only have one Muslim friend. She is 5th generation Australian and converted to Islam a few years ago. She wears the garb where her face is visible but the rest of her hair and clothing are covert (forgive my ignorance of what it's called - Hajib I think) and she wears this by choice. Her husband is not a Muslim.
I cannot speak for other Muslims.

[wallah]

We can't be selective about which aspects of secularism we wish to adopt. Especially if it's just about banning the symbols that we find confronting.

Why is personal expression so important, but if that happens to get even slightly expressed via religious symbols we get outraged?

I'm so over people demonizing Islam and it's adherents.

[Femogan Boop!]

If a country is well known for not being receptive to the burqa prior to someone coming there, then presumably there can be an element of choices around if someone wants to enter that country or not. In some Muslim Asian and even European countries, female travellers are advised to cover up or not touch religious figures (dirty b**ches are we throughout the world it seems).

But there is a problem for me if Australian nationals who have lived here for some period of time and choose to wear a burqa, are told they're no longer free to do so.

Like a PP said, it would only be reasonable if all religious symbols were banned.

[s-m]

the purpose of the niqab/veiled-burqa/chadi (the actual face-covering portion of women's clothing) may have begun as a practical measure in sandy/windy environments and was also possibly a way to conceal women of childbearing age, letting them blend with older women, to avoid kidnap when raids were common

I have worn full face covering at times when I was travelling in Pakistan. I wore head covering at all times, but around Skardu in the upper Indus valley there is a frigging sand storm every afternoon and quite honestly it was more comfortable having a sarong right over my face (I could see through it fine to walk around) than not, and wasn't actually all that hot.

There were a few other places where I had everything covered except eyes. TBH as a blonde European woman (travelling with three European males) there were times I was thoroughly sick of being stared at. Keeping your head shaded actually has benefits in hot weather.

In winter I sometimes wear a scarf similar to Hijab if it's cold.

I wonder would it help the cause of women who choose to wear head/face covering if a whole heap of non-Muslim women chose to wear the same for a day to show their support?

Steph

[womenindocs]

[quote name='Privileged' date='07/05/2010, 08:31 AM' post='11391975']

In Australia, I think it is a political statement and nothing to do with freedom of religion. Same with France. Good on France for banning something which represents a fundamental rejection of their way of life.


The Burka is not religious requirement, having you head coverd is. (hijab)

We live in large Muslim suburb and what is sad to see is girls as young as 8-10 are in full Burka's. There a quite offen in trouble for talking... looking in shops...... hepling with other sister/brothers and yes often have a male in toe. Very diffrent from young girls in a Hijab who are smiling happy and running around.

[Eight.years]

Hmm, legislation that says that some women should wear less clothing than they feel comfortable with. Fück that for a joke.

I know how I'd feel if legislation was passed banning skirts that went below mid thigh. If I had to be that undressed every time I went into public I'd probably stop going out much. Cue social isolation and disenfrachisement.

It is ironic that part of the reason France is considering this is because of the so called 'Muslim integration problem'. I don't think it takes a brains trust to see that it will probably have the opposite effect to that intended. Unless the true intention is just that the people supporting this move don't want to have to look at burquas.

This post has been edited by sassm: 07/05/2010, 10:29 AM