[AmityD]

I was at a café the other day, starving as I usually am these days, yet I stood there for what seemed like an eternity trying to work out what I could actually eat from their sandwich bar options. The man behind the counter, becoming increasingly impatient with my umming and ahhing, began offering me suggestions. The conversation went like this….

Him: “Ham and salad?”
Me: “Can’t have ham”

Him: “Chicken and avocado?”
Me: “Sounds delicious, cold cooked chicken is a no no though”

Him: “How about a smoked salmon bagel?”
Me: “Definitely not”

Him (obviously irritated) “How about a prosciutto and rocket panini?”
Me: “I’d kill for a prosciutto and rocket panini, but I can’t”

Him: “Why can’t you eat any of these things?”
Me: They’re all risks for Listeria, it can harm your baby if you get it.”

Him: “Listeria? Sounds like Hysteria to me”

Feeling sorry for myself, and to get out of there as quickly as possible, I settled for a plain bread roll while the aroma of grilling prosciutto tormented me.

Welcome to the world of Listeria Hysteria.

The festive season is a particularly bad time to be suffering from Listeria Hysteria, as I’ve discovered over the last few weeks. Bowls of giant king prawns and oysters that are devoured by everyone but you. Cold chickens and store bought coleslaws that turn relaxing picnics into a game of risk. Salads that feature little minefields of feta. Soft serve ice-creams that are strictly forbidden and platters of creamy brie, pate and prosciutto that mock you with their very existence.

All of these foods, delicious as they may seem, strike fear into the heart of pregnant women, as they carry a risk to their un-born babies. But are they really a risk or are we all just too paranoid?

Many older women will remark to you that they never knew about listeria in their day and yet all carried healthy babies to term. I envy their naivety. In fact, my own obstetrician informed me that in all his years of practice he had never had a patient with listeria, so not to stress about it too much. Yet the risk is still there and I have no intention of being his first.

Having said that, I am not as paranoid as I was with my first pregnancy, when I actually spit out a bite of sandwich suspecting it had ricotta in it. Turns out it was cream cheese, which is allowed, but I refused to eat it anyway. No sandwich was going to hurt my baby, thank you very much.

Most women I know are more relaxed about it with subsequent pregnancies though, with one friend of mine deciding that her beloved sushi was a risk she was prepared to take. Yet, after suffering from miscarriages in the attempt to have this baby the threat feels more real to me now. So as much as I want to dig into those juicy prawns, I want my baby more.

Which brings me to drinking. Again, the festive season is not the easiest time to be abstaining, but we do because it’s what's best for our baby. But are pregnant women really abstaining as much as they should?

The recommendation by both the World Health Organisation and the Australian Government is that there is no safe level of alcohol consumption during pregnancy, so abstaining is the safest approach.

Yet that message has changed over the years and most women will tell you that their own obstetrician informed them that a glass here and there will not do any harm. And most pregnant women I know take that advice on board, indulging in a glass now and then without any guilt.

With my first pregnancy I abstained completely. This was made easier when my senses rejected alcohol entirely, with even the smell of it off putting to me. However, this time around I have not been as lucky and a cold glass of wine on a warm summers night is still as tempting as ever. But I have been surprised by the attitude of others towards me drinking that wine. When I turn it down I often find people, even pregnant women, assuring me that one glass won’t hurt and encouraging me to enjoy it.

Perhaps it’s because those women are on their second and third pregnancies and are therefore more relaxed in general. Maybe they are a bit older and less influenced by big brother telling them what to do. Or perhaps they just realised that generations of women had a glass here and there while pregnant and it did their children no harm.

I should point out here that I am talking about very minimal amount of alcohol. We all know the devastating effects binge drinking can have on an unborn baby and would never condone something that can cause life long physical and mental damage to a child. But is it right to forbid all pregnant women the occasional drink because some cannot do it responsibly?

On another point, it becomes extremely evident when you’re not drinking just how much our culture revolves around the consumption of alcohol. Every social and celabatory occasion is focused on it and it’s very easy to feel left out when you are not part of that. Feel free to vent about that, all you pregnant women and non drinkers out there!

But for me, for the next 17 weeks, I’ll have the odd glass on special occasions and the rest of the time I’ll politely refuse both a drink and all those yummy but risky foods. And I will have a platter of prawns, prosciutto, goats cheese and brie with a glass of cold bubbles in the hospital!

After all, it’s not a long time to resist and a small price to pay for a healthy baby. And at least us women have strong will power, as was illustrated by my husband when he offered me a glass the other day and I reminded him, again, that I wasn’t drinking.

Him: “So you can’t drink at all for nine months?” Incredulously, as if we’d never had this discussion before.

Me: “That's right, I’m sacrificing for the sake of our baby.”

Him, shuddering in horror: “Men could SO not be pregnant.”

Now that’s the understatement of the year!

What is your attitude towards eating and drinking while pregnant? Did you take the risk with listeria foods? Did you continue to drink and, if so, how much? Do you think the guidelines are reasonable? And do you feel left out if you can't drink at social functions? Let's have a discussion.....

[IBakeBoys]

I try to avoid the "risky" foods but we do eat homemade sushi, and there are times when I've taken a gamble (like yesterday when MIL thought it would be great to serve up plates upon plates of cold meat and not much else... thanks!)

I think if you eat things sensibly then the risks would have to be reduced - does anyone think women in Japan abstain from sushi for 9 months (I have it on good authority that they don't)

As for the occasional drink, I've pretty much limited it all 3 pregnancies to toasts at weddings. A single glass would likely send me to sleep so I don't really bother any other times...

[Eirinn]

I agree that the risks of a glass of wine and a piece of brie to the unborn child are negligible, and definitely over-hyped. You are taking a bigger chance by taking your baby for a car ride, and no one thinks twice about that!

HOWEVER...I don't understand why anyone would try to coax a woman out of playing it safe. I have had three pregnancies. The first ended in miscarriage. The second ended in the stillbirth of my daughter at 20 weeks. Understandably, for my third, I wasn't taking any chances. When you lose a baby, no matter what the gestation, you go through everything in your mind. You play the 'what if' game. It may be illogical, but there it is. The third time around, I didn't want to have any 'what ifs'. I wanted to be sure I had done everything possible to bring my baby to term. And I did!

[RatbagBob]

The only things my doctor (who herself had a number of miscarriages and knows the score) told me to avoid were reheated rice, raw eggs, raw fish and seafood and those pre-packed sandwiches you get in service stations. She also said not to have to much big fish due to mercury concentration.

I ate soft cheese, cold meats including ham and chicken, avoided smoked salmon because it's raw, drank small amounts of wine and had a perfectly healthy pregnancy. I think the whole thing is overhyped, especially in Australia where we have pasturised milk so issues you can find with milk and dairy products in other countries don't exist.

[libbylu]

I have heard of a few listeria scares in Australia recently......cold chicken sandwhiches on Virgin flights being infected with listeria resulted in a number of women going into labour prematurely. There was a recall on a supermarket stocked brand of feta due to listeria...not sure if there were any negative consequences from that. And in Victoria I think deli stocked semi-dried tomatoes a couple of months ago. I myself, would rather not take the risk.
As for alcohol, later in my pregnancy I would have half a glass of wine if I was out and people were drinking, but never more than once or twice a week. But like you Amity, for the first 16 weeks or so the very smell of alcohol was enough to make my stomach churn, so I avoided it completely! I also limited my caffeine intake to one cup of tea a day, banning coffee. A coffee is enough to send my heart rate soaring, and I didn't want to hype up my baby, because he barely stopped kicking as it was!

[mummame]

I don't drink when pregnant, just a toast at a wedding, thats it. I am not interested and don't feel like I am missing out.

On the other hand, I don't worry about food so much. I eat feta, meats, soft cheeses, seafood, soft serve!! I will steer clear of pre packed sandwiches, but I did eat sandwiches on a Virgin flight a few years back and I was okay!!!! I do drink my normal amounts of caffiene and will have take away as normal. I think the risk is so tiny I really don't think analysing everything that goes in my mouth is that important. I am happy for others to do what they want though.

[sartorut]

I am on baby number 3 at the moment and I have found my attitude has changed with each pregnancy. I personally believe it has gone all a little far, but at least we have the knowledge and can make an educated decision these days.

I now have cold meats, ham, salami, smoked salmon, if I think it smells and looks fresh. I avoid bought salads, well I never ate them anyway, so that was easy, ready made sandwiches, sushi and that's about it. Cheeses and prawns I have eaten too this pregnancy, mostly because I couldn't stand it at Christmas this year! At all points I judged the food I was having and make a judgement call based on this.

With regards to the drinking issue. I think anyone should only ever do what is right for them. I personally do have a drink every now and again, in fact in 17 weeks I can think of 4 occasions where I have to date. I did it with no guilt and limited my drink to 1. It felt nice to be free from the shackles of pregnancy. I don't agree with someone binge drinking heavily, or drinking all the time in pregnancy, but I do this there is a time and a way to do it, if you absolutely feel like it. I feel the same about someone who does not want to at all! More power to them I say. I think what I mainly want to say here is we should try not to judge other people just because they are pregnant. Let other people be, and worry about yourself if you must worry!

Anyway, it's an interesting debate, which I think will be argued for many years to come!

[Hunca Munca]

I'm trying very hard to avoid every single thing that someone somewhere says might be bad for baby - but then this is my first pregnancy I'm generally doing OK, although early in the pregnancy went to a family event where all the food was buffet style (and we weren't telling the news yet), so had to have something. Just made sure I ate the hottest/freshest hot things.
I never did drink so that hasn't been a sacrifice for me

[JEMTS]

when preg with #1 (10 years ago), i knew not to eat seafood.

when preg with #2 (7 years ago), i knew not to eat seafood and soft cheeses.

now preg with #3, good lord things have changed. Im pretty sure im going to starve this pregnancy.

I feel your pain OP i realised that NOTHING i felt like eating when out last weekend was on the OK list, so sat there feeling sorry for myself while DH, #1 and #2 sat there hoeing into a lovely big lunch. I sipped on a bottle of water.

I think it is total hysteria, HOWEVER i still dont eat the things on the no-no list and feel rediculous at the same time, as i ate nearly everything 1st and 2nd time around and the kids turned out fine.

[justpeppermint]

I don't think any alcohol is a good idea, but then I have been turned off drinking since my first pregnancy so hardly a sacrifice.

The food thing has gone way over board. I don't pay much attention and just use common sense.

If things are improperly stored or could have been sitting out the back for an hour after delivery without refrigeration I don't eat it.

I worked with someone who did everything, she avoided prepacked salads and opted to make her own, washed everything etc. Still ended up in hospital on a drip.

I guess its the same thing as washing bottles and the whole do or don't sterilise thing. If you tell people to wash they will wash, if you tell them to sterilise some won't wash as common sense is not all that common.

So if you tell people to avoid prepackaged this or that, cold meat etc, you are effectively telling them to watch what they eat and make sure it is stored properly. It's not hard.

For me, because I do make sure things are fresh and stored correctly the risk is fairly low. Still possible of course but I think no amount of banned foods will prevent it 100% of the time.