[diary~dad]

A Tourist on the Birth Canal
By Joseph Kelly

I have often heard from members of my parent’s generation how refreshing it is to see men nowadays involved in all aspects of child raising. Men uniformly attend the birth of their children, are happy to push a pram down the high street and most (with the celebrated exception of Shane Warne) know how to change a nappy. But there are still parts of the parenting puzzle that remain a complete mystery even to the most sensitive of new-age men.

To be fair to men of my father’s generation, they have always played a large part in conception but for various reasons have not figured too highly on the parenting journey thereafter. This was not always by their own design. It wasn’t that long ago, for example, that men were actively discouraged from attending the birth of their children by militant members of the medical fraternity. Likewise, an older colleague recently told me that when he had children a man wouldn’t be seen dead pushing a pram as this was considered ‘sissy’. While this has all thankfully changed and men are (on the whole) more engaged in parenting, the one part of the birthing and child raising process that men are still completely in the dark about is the actual biology of birthing itself.

The birth of a child is, for all involved, a pretty scary time. As well as all the unknowns about the baby and your role as a parent, there are some pretty weird things that are about to happen to your partner’s body. And for a man, finding out what these weird things are is not always easy, not least of all because birthing has its own language which is foreign, terrifying and completely confusing. For example, Susie and I were recently discussing our birthing plan for baby number three. When Susie started talking to me about a VBAC I thought she had moved on to talking about lunch and wanted to know if I wanted a BLT with veal. When I said I’d have my VBAC toasted she knew we were not only on the wrong page but were reading from two very different scripts.

Likewise, right up until the birth of our third daughter Rita, I thought that Frank Breach was the name of our obstetrician. And while I’m on the topic of obstetricians, the only way I can remember that a baby doctor is an ‘obstetrician’ is to think of the word ‘obstacle’ – as in “the doctor has to manoeuvre the large baby through the small obstacle” – and then stretch the word out. It’s like the word episiotomy which I connect to the word ‘appease’ – as in “this will appease the pain you are feeling in manoeuvring the large baby through the small obstacle”. It seems like every word to do with child birth is terrifying.

Freebirthing, I now know, is not a new experimental jazz movement. And a doula, I’m reliably informed, is not something you use to exfoliate but is a trained birthing support person. But these aren’t terms or concepts that were patiently explained to me, rather I had to dig past a deep layer of secrecy and press my ear firmly to the women’s cone of silence (and read a lot of posts in EB). Having been an active and engaged husband and father for three births, there are still parts of the process that I am yet to understand.

My wife Susie says the reason I don’t know these things is simple. Whenever the subject of birthing is raised, she says, I simply take myself to my happy place and block out everything that is being said. As evidence of this she points to the fact that we did several weeks of pre-natal classes before Maisie’s arrival in which birthing was explained in all its technicolour detail - none of which I can remember. Susie insists that any time the phrase ‘birth canal’ is mentioned my eyes glaze over and my spirit leaves the building.

I think this is partially true. I think there are also parts of the birthing process that women like to keep for themselves. I just don't know if it's kept secret because men, like Colonel Nathan R Jessep, can't handle the truth or if it's because women want to keep part of the experience for themselves.

Is there a cone of silence around birthing that excludes men? Or are men still a few evolutionary steps away from being able to understand what goes on at the business end of birthing?

[loopyb]

Obviously you are interested in the birthing process enough to sit down and write about it, but honestly, you can't really not know about the things you claim. You are onto your third child and you say you are an active an engaged father - that's great. So don't dumb down the male population by claiming they do not know these things, or are not interested, or have some kind of hole in their brain that birthing information just falls out of. Its ridiculous. If men do not know about these things its because they do not want to. Most men I know who have children, educate themselves about it all at the same time their partner does. If they don't, then they are not interested and as such are taking an old fashioned, not active role in the birth of their child. Please don't claim that men don't understand birth, its rather pathetic, and as far as women keeping knowledge a secret - well..... as i said, being active means finding out for yourself not relying on your partner to teach you.

[diary~dad]

Hello Loopyb and welcome to EB. My post is taken from my experience as a father involved in the birthing process. It is a foreign and scary process (as it undoubtedly is for women). Men have the luxury of blocking certain aspects of birth out - a luxury not afforded to women for obvious reasons. It is my experience, and the experience of the vast majority of my male friends, that we take that opportunity to block out some aspects of this process and run with it. The post is asking whether we, as men, block stuff out because it is too hard for us to deal with what is going on or because the process acts to exclude us anyway so it's easier to not know stuff than it is to learn about it. Either way I don't see men's responses as pathetic or ridiculous, rather I think it is important for men to talk freely about their birthing experiences.

[ratbags]

Diary Dad I truly believe that women do not intend to shut men out of the process of the 9 month journey intentionally, more it is a case of men limiting themselves to what they want to know. How many times have we heard men say "I want to be there when the baby is conceived and when it comes out!". Men are interested in the stages of pregnancy obviously but not the nitty gritty that women need to be involved. Men are great at dealing with the practical sides of pregnancy, but as they do not have vagina's or cervix they really cannot understand what it feels like to have a head with a circumference of 38 cms bouncing off your bladder and stretching your pelvis!

I feel that men are not intentionally shut out of the pregnancy process because it is not their business, alot of men cannot get involved with the ins and outs of pregnancy as indepth as women because it may effect their role of supporting their partners. Men think differently to women, men can shut out the irrelevent information because they have so many other issues to deal with, primarily providing financial security to their new family.

Biologically men and women focus on different aspects of parenthood, one doesn't cancel out the other it merely compliments it. If one aspect is missing the other parent can accommodate to a certain degree, but effectively both parents bring their own strengths.

Men 'choose' to not know alot of information concerning pregnancy, some men though are fantastic and can know more about your cervix, uterus, gestational stage than any women, but these men are unique and in my limited experience in the minority. Men should be made to feel more welcome by the obstetric industry, you need to journey this road to.

One aspect that I do need to touch on Diary Dad is that you presume that women are told all the 'secret' information concerning pregnancy, alot of women are as unaware as yourself. The obstetric field is notorious for leaving everyone in the dark, not just men.

So many women do not know their basic rights to true birth choices, if you feel helpless as a man witnessing your partners pregnancy and subsequent birth, spare thoughts for all the millions of women throughout history who have been denied choice and information whilst giving birth, still today in the 21st century women across this very country do not know as much information as they should about obstetric care.

Men need to acknowledge their need to know this information and seek/demand the answers as we women have, for too long men have hidden behind the facade of 'womens business' men need to start demanding their rights in this area. Alot may not accept this statement, BUT your need for ultimate acceptance will have to wait until ALL women have the right to birth our babies in a maternity system that best suits her so that she feels she had as near fulfillment as possible.

Does that make sense?

[diary~dad]

Great post, ratbags. Let all us brothers and sisters in birth join in our quest for knowledge!!

[Oma Desala]

Oh Ratbags, couldn't have said it better myself. Especially agree with the following,

So many women do not know their basic rights to true birth choices, if you feel helpless as a man witnessing your partners pregnancy and subsequent birth, spare thoughts for all the millions of women throughout history who have been denied choice and information whilst giving birth, still today in the 21st century women across this very country do not know as much information as they should about obstetric care.

Men sometime believe that we are leaving out info but when we are kept in the dark also it can't be helped. That's why I encourage anyone on the parenting journey to research and read for themselves and get second and third opinions.

Diary Dad, IME I've found that it is easier to get a partner to listen and take in information relating to birth when we discuss homebirth. I focus on the basics and only bring up interventions when he asks. That way I know he wants to know and that I am not about to bombard him with heaps of info that he is not interested in and will most likely not even encounter.

[carygrant]

I wish people would STOP making sweeping generalisations about "ALL men" and "ALL women".

I agree with 'ratbags' that... "ALL women have the right to birth our babies in a maternity system that best suits her so that she feels she had as near fulfillment as possible." That statement is about designing a medical system that can respond to each INDIVIDUAL woman and their own needs and experience and I applaud that objective.

Yet the first paragraph of 'ratbags' response does not extend that same courtesy to men. 'Men' are generalised...men this, men that, men something else. Sweeping generalisation after sweeping generalisation about what men think and feel.

I can't understand why I keep reading blogs and articles about women wanting men to be more involved, more in touch with their feelings, more this more that and yet when push comes to shove it seems there are many more dismissive generalisations about what men are like than men could ever get away with in writing about women.

The truth is SOME men may say; "I want to be there when the baby is conceived and when it comes out!".

SOME men are interested in "the nitty gritty that women need to be involved."

SOME men are "great at dealing with the practical sides of pregnancy".

SOME "Men 'choose' to not know alot of information concerning pregnancy."

And SOME men "can know more about your cervix, uterus, gestational stage than any women" and this doesn't necessarily make them unique or fantastic nor in the minority as 'ratbag' implies.

And much and all as it might shock SOME women, many men DO know what pain is like and CAN at least IMAGINE and EMPATHISE with what it feels like to... "have a head with a circumference of 38 cms bouncing off your bladder and stretching your pelvis." (I'm tipping a friend of mine who had his leg amputated and lay in hospital in unspeakable agony would trade 12 hours of labour, however painful.)

If you think this is just politically correct language gone mad then reflect for a minute on just how important language can be as a form of inclusion. That's why we moved away from terms like 'mankind' or the use of the pronoun 'he' to be assumed to include men and women.

The truth is SOME men feel they ARE shut out of child birth by SOME women and probably SOME men don't.

SOME men want to find out everything they can and SOME men don't.... and to argue as loopyb does that "If they don't, then they are not interested and as such are taking an old fashioned, not active role in the birth of their child"{ is just ludicrous.

As far as I'm aware intimate knowledge of the workings of a woman's cervix is hardly grounds for good parenting and there are many other ways a partner can be ACTIVE in the parenting process.

But let's get back to the point, ARE men excluded or are they just NOT INTERESTED in some stuff?

I'll share a personal experience with you all...

I went with my partner to EVERY meeting with our obstetrician, who was a women, and it took six or seven visits for her to even acknowledge I was in the room, she never once asked me what I wanted from the birth nor whether I had any questions and the staff at her rooms treated me with a mixture of condescension, dismissiveness and amusement.

I have had that many discussions with allegedly enlightened women who when it gets to the nitty gritty of birth choices, pain management etc... have said more or less directly what would you know about it and you really have nothing to contribute on this subject.

I have listened in ante natal classes to midwives lecture the male partners and I mean LECTURE in the most patronising way, about our responsibility to be at the birth and what we had tow watch for as signs of post natal depression without once saying you know this might present you with a few challenges in your life as well and you have a right to reflect on those. In other words, even though it may be MOSTLY about the mother and new born baby, it can't be ALL about them to the exclusion of what other partner is going through.

So, in my view and my experience, and keep in mind it is only MY view and MY experience, there are points at which men are, if not excluded, then not actively included in the birthing process.

SOME of that exclusion could be accidental. The consequence of years of under involvement might just be that many women assume quite wrongly that their partners aren't interested.

SOME is systemic. There are very few men involved in the process of preparing men and women for fatherhood and the childbirth experience for example.

I just wish that this debate - and it's both men and women writers doing it - could get away from characterising the majority of men as these bumbling and hapless, but sometimes well-meaning participants in the birthing/parenting process.

Just as feminism fought for women's right to occupy whatever spaces they desired and not to be judged for their decisions. Hence we have full time working mothers right through to full time stay at home mothers.

In as much as some men need to claim their space in these roles, many women need to allow men their space and the time and right to find their place in these processes.

Without women according men the same respect they rightly demand of men in return then there are as many reasons for men not to show interest as there are to do so.

It would just be nice instead of hearing time and time again how so many men need to get more "in touch with their feelings" to ask "how do you feel?" The best women I know understand that many men DO in fact express emotion and mostly ARE in touch with their emotions they just process and express them differently. Quite differently to women.

Isn't it time we showed men some respect and acknowledged this simple but important fact and stopped generalising about what men think and feel?

[kate35]

Great topic, Diary Dad!

As a nurse of many years standing, I feel that this perceived lack of knowledge on the part of men is not just confined to the birthing suite. On the other hand, though, I have met many men who were informed and interested in both their own and their significant others' conditions. I have also met many women who couldn't tell the difference between a vulva and a Volvo, and indeed have met more than one woman who swore blind they couldn't be pregnant and that their stomach pains were solely due to a dodgy prawn... just as the baby popped out. So making gross generalisations, as carygrant pointed out, is unfair and inaccurate.

Yes, all women have the right to choose how they give birth, in conjunction with their significant other, and always bearing in mind that the ultimate goal is a healthy baby and mum. Sometimes, with this end in mind, birth plans go out the window! But from my point of view, the partner should be involved in the decision. Part of the problem with the perceived lack of Dad Knowledge is that some women deliberately block the men out of the Secret Women's Business. Forgive me, but I always thought Women's Lib was about equality, not reverse discrimination.

Granted, some men's eyes do glaze over whenever the discussions head south of the belly button and there's no chocolate sauce and feathers involved. However, most men are more than interested in the gestation process, and would love to know what to feels like to feel a pair of feet firmly planted in your bladder. The same goes for the birth process, although books and other information sources can only teach so much. My poor husband was sure our daughter's head was going to be torn off when he saw the forceps delivery, and we'd had the full explanation during the antenatal classes. Some things just need to be experienced! My sympathies, BTW carygrant, at the treatment you got from the obstetrician and midwives - we've been so lucky to have medical and nursing staff (not from the hospital I work at, incidentally) who have been equally happy to involve and explain things to both my husband and me.

The other point I'd like to make is that the birthing process is over in a relatively short period of time. I'd much rather have someone there with me in the following days, weeks and years who will support and back me, and love and nurture our kids. If this means that he blanks out a bit during discussions about the birth, I reckon it's a small price to pay.

In conclusion, and on an irreverent note, it's well known that men develop domestic deafness... maybe this is where it all starts!!

[carygrant]

Kate35, thanks for your support on most of those matters. I couldn't agree more with everything you said....that is until the last line. This is my point...why accuse men of domestic deafness even in an obviously irreverent, light-hearted way? How does that help things? I don't want to overstate this response but in the same way many women I know hate the generalisations that women can't park, or read a map, or throw a ball... a lot of men, me included, object to those sort of generalisations. In the same way a lot of women might say, OK you drive, you read the map, because I can't deal with the grief and the jibes many men respond the same way. The other day I was talking to a female friend of mine who was complaining about her husband. Complaining NOT about the fact that he doesn't do housework, but that his standards are so much lower than hers. "He just never does anything the way I want him too and I end up having to redo it anyway so why bother." I did point out that you could hardly blame him for not being too keen about doing housework because whether he did it or not he copped the same grief. Something she hadn't even really thought about. So let's stick with the, we all need to work on communication, instead of making fun of the cliched inadequacies on the opposite sex. g

Having said that... I loved your post.

[ratbags]

Thanks carygrant and kate35 you explained things well and it made sense.