[CallMeProtart]

So.
Bought DD a $5 pair of silver pumps from kmart.
Next kmart trip, DS wants to wear them to the shops, DD says ok. But he's a size smaller so he's kind of tripping up all the time. I figure, for $5, he can have his own pair, I feel bad that she got new shoes and he didn't.
At the shoe aisles I ask him to have a look around in case there's some different pair of shoes he wants - nope, only that one. They are VERY shiny, I can't blame him, they're lovely.
Walking down the kmart aisle to pay for his shoes (still wearing DD's), DH meets us and says "DS take of those shoes, they're for girls!"

I was furious. I have NEVER told my children that something is for girls or for boys, and when DD comes home with the whole "pink is for girls" thing I tell her every colour is for everyone. I thought DH was on the same page with this - apparently not.

His angle is that he doesn't have an issue with it, but that there are social conventions, and that the kids need to learn them, otherwise they will get teased.
I see his point - I teach my kids certain social conventions (currently working on getting DD not not show her 'gina' to all and sundry) - but I don't accept that my kids need to follow any social conventions that are based on gender. Or race, say, if that were to come up.
Of course I still subtly push them one way or the other (not that I'm proud of it). DS wears shirts and pants, DD has the option of dresses and skirts on top of the options he has. DS fortunately doesn't have much interest in clothing, so has not queried this. He occasionally dons a pettiskirt when he feels like dancing - he likes the swish.

DH thinks I'm using my children - against their best interests - to make a feminist statement.
I'm of the view that my job as a parent is to tell them that I am ok with whatever they choose - if they decide not to wear certain things due to social pressure than so be it - but my job is to teach them that -I- will accept them regardless.
But DH wants to know how come we teach them other social rules so that they get along in society, but I don't want to teach them these ones. My reason is that I don't think gender rules are valid. But that's really MY view - it's a pretty small distinction for my kids when you come to think of it, to say "most rules you have to abide by - gender ones I'm ok with you ignoring if you like".
Does that mean I'm actually following my own agenda, and that it's not really for their own welfare and sense of acceptance, like I believe it is?

Help me out here. I kind of want some different ways of thinking about this, to help me convince DH. But I also want to know whether I really am doing something bad to my children for some feminist belief I have. I think I'm not - I think I'm teaching them what rules are important and what rules aren't. But I still worry

This post has been edited by CallMeProtart: 17/02/2013, 10:13 AM

[FuzzyMum]

I'm with you CallMeProTart. In my opinion a great deal of problems we have with bullying etc have come about due to social conventions linked to the idea of gender specific stereotyping I.e. boys will be boys and the like. If he wants to wear them then why not in my opinion.

[Red nut]

Most 'rules' have a reason behind them, eg consideration for others, safety etc. Gendered clothes don't, especially as it is one way... I'm sure your DD would be allowed to pick boys shoes. Why not use that as your criteria?

[xarley]

Good for you for getting him his own shiny shoes. The only people who are going to care are adults so let him have fun and tell dad to relax. He has plenty of time to learn social conventions (and decide if he wants to follow them).
From another mom whose son loves shiny (pink &sparkly) shoes

[SCARFACE CLAW]

I would leave that kind of thing for dress ups, but I like to pick what my kids wear, and I wouldn't have my kids of either sex wearing pumps - not appropriate or good for their feet.
I have no problem with my DS dressing up as a fair or princess, just like them to wear proper clothes when out.

[Quirk]

I recently bought a three kids a pair of those knock-off Crocs from Kmart for wearing to swimming, beach etc.

It wasn't until about a week later that I realised that the pair I had bought for DS age 4, were actually girls shoes, with lovehearts all over them.

Kids have plenty of time to work out how stifled life can get, let him wear his sparkly shoes.

[Alacritous~Andy]

The only time I might question allowing an opposite-sex child to buy gendered clothing (eg boy buying "girl" things) would be undies. And even then, only if I thoughht there would be a fit issue.

Shiny shoes are awesome.

[Sunnycat]

Im with you on this one, but I dare say my DH would react similarly to the way your DH did.

Actually, I just asked my DH and he said that "they're just ****ing shoes". He said he probably would explain to our son that they are predominantly girls shoes and explain that some people might tease him and then let DS decide if he still wanted to wear them. I don't know if this is the right approach either though, as it might put him off wearing them.

DH would be okay with shoes but draws a line at a dress for some reason.

[HollyOllyOxenfre...]

Ask your DH to flip it around - would he care if your DD was wearing boys shoes (whatever they are)?

I think it is a tricky issue to be honest. DS hasn't hit an age where he wants to choose his own things to wear yet, although he is currently napping in a pink sleeping bag because it was on clearance and I'm stingy. When he's old enough to choose we'll let him choose from whatever, but I know if he chooses typical girl things we will face questions from his grandparents. DH is on the same page at this stage so I don't have the same issue as you, but that may well change as DS grows up.

Rules for clothes really are ridiculous. As a PP mentioned, most rules are the for a reason - your DD flashing her bits to people is obviously a safety issue. Your DS wearing shiny shoes is not as long as they fit ok.

[CallMeProtart]

As a PP mentioned, most rules are the for a reason - your DD flashing her bits to people is obviously a safety issue. Your DS wearing shiny shoes is not as long as they fit ok.

Yes maybe this is the line I need to draw. Rules that are there for a reason vs. not.

I'm not sure though. Her flashing her bits is probably more of a social convention issue than a safety issue. It's normally around the house that she does so - unfortunately that includes when we have guests, and at her birthday party! But I don't think it was a safely issue in any of those cases - she still knows that nobody is to touch those parts without reason and permission. It's more of a social convention issue. But at least that particular convention is not gender related? And the thing is, I think there are a lot of social conventions I teach her - say most of the politeness ones - that are not really 'for a reason' - they are just what society deems polite (please, thank you).

I guess I do worry about the teasing aspect. Am I failing to protect my child, by not telling him about the social conventions he is breaching?

And no, DH wouldn't care if DD was in boys shoes. But he also feels that she would not be teased in boys shoes.