[Molondy]

I am at a genuine loss and as a result am after genuine advice.

My son is 4.5 and has a pretty shocking temper. He gets it from me so I don't help matters but this afternoon something happened that turned absolutely and utterly pear shaped and I don't really know what I should have done differently.

Anyway Tom gets himself really over excited and has difficulty listening and doing what he is told in these moments. It is a constant challenge however on this particular occasion he simply decided he wanted to play downstairs. Our front yard is not fenced, my husband wasn't home and I was trying to sort out dinner.

I asked him to come upstairs. He refused. I told him to come upstairs. He got angry and screamed at me, including a swear word (starting with F). I kept calm and told him that if he wasn't upstairs by the time I counted to 3 he would miss out on television that evening (night time ritual - 30 mins of tv before bed). He came upstairs but after he got to the top he rushed at me, grabbed at me and really hurt me (grabbed my boob). That was two really bad things - swearing and violence.

In our house violence towards others results in time out. So I took him to time out. As I often do I tell him if he comes out of time out he loses temporary possession of his favorite toy (Woody) He spends some time in his room looking for Woody then leaves his room to try and hide him. I remove Woody from his possession and put him back in his room.

He then decides to find Buzz so Buzz can rescue Woody. He leaves again. I put him back in. He starts screaming.

He then leaves his room again and I put him back in again.

He stays in his room and starts bashing and thumping things. I judge he can't hurt himself as he isn't bashing his glass wardrobe doors and doesn't seem to be hitting anything with solid objects and resolve to wait until he calms down and then, give him his bloody 4 minute time out. Just as I am about to go and tell him time out doesn't start until he calms down I hear him leave the room. As I go to get him and look in the room and he has yanked out the blind in his bedroom.

Until this point I have been calm. No yelling, No swearing - simply trying to reinforce the disiplinary action I have deemed appropriate.

Of course on seeing the blind I completely lose it and everything goes pear shaped and I end up feeling like a worthless mother who is the worst possible role model.

How would you have managed this situation? Not just the end but the whole thing? - Time out just does not seem to work with this child - it just seems to escalate the problem but how else would you have managed the swearing/violence.

We do use star charts but that only works when kids are rational. by the time the swearing and violence starts he isn't generally rational anymore... I should also point out that he generally gets the most angry/upset at the THOUGHT of consequences. So he can be being mildy naughty and If I tell him what the consequences are if he doesn't stop THEN he goes off his brain - before the consequence even sets in!

I should also say that when he really really loses it I forget about consequences and keep him safe which usually means firm cuddles and quiet talking but that really didn't seem an option to me this afternoon.

(by the way I should clarify he isn't like this ALL the time. But it has been a challenging weekend)...

Thanks.

This post has been edited by Molondy: 10/02/2013, 08:22 PM

[No girls here]

My angry child is also called Tom.

I'm not sure if this will work for everyone, but this is what seems to work for us. I've found with him that dealing with it when he is angry only escalates things, and it seems to work better if I tell him he is doing the wrong thing and let him know we will discuss punishment later. Then when he has calmed down we talk about how he did the wrong thing and what an appropriate punishment might be.

[JamJah]

I wouldn't use his bedroom as the timeout area. Is there anywhere else you can use that is really boring and has nothing around that he can get into mischief with? The other reason for this being that I prefer to keep the timeout area separate from the sleeping/play area.

I hope that makes sense, I've had an ordinary day with my not-even-2-yr-old too.

Good luck!

[cinderellainsydn...]

When we visited a child psych they recommended:
* stating to the child what is not OK ie to say the f word
* letting the child know what is an appropriate alternative: what you should have said is "I am not happy about this"
* time out in the toilet until they calm down or another most boring place of all. You must stand there and hold the door if necessary but do not engage in conversation. Even if it's half an hour the first time. (bedroom not recommended as has too many distractions)
* when they come out you must compliment them on regaining control and must have them join you in family activity/game/dinner back to normal but with added positive attention, active participation etc. It is not a good idea to remove currency fav objects as an additional punishment. The idea is for the child to learn self control through repetition of time-outs, each instance of time-out should be shorter in duration.
* adults should also time out when they are angry

This system worked very well for 5.5DD, but we do still get an occasional loss of control.

[JamJah]

My son went through that at that age. What helped:

- fish oil capsules. MAJOR help

Oh yes, I remember something about this years ago. Can you please refresh my memory

[Mummy Em]

I'd shift time out to a space where he can be easily contained and not much that he can damage. I hold the door too, if my dd won't stay put. I treat time out as a time to calm down, so I don't worry if dd is playing in there or if she has a toy. I'd probably drop the removal of Woody, as you have already give a consequence and taking Woody just seems to escalate the situation and give him a new thing to focus his anger on.

[Funwith3]

Hands up who's buying fish oil tablets tomorrow??! (My hand is up).... I never knew this!

[RealityBites]

I'd shift time out to a space where he can be easily contained and not much that he can damage. I hold the door too, if my dd won't stay put. I treat time out as a time to calm down, so I don't worry if dd is playing in there or if she has a toy. I'd probably drop the removal of Woody, as you have already give a consequence and taking Woody just seems to escalate the situation and give him a new thing to focus his anger on.

+1

I have also found that not getting angry back seems to work with my DD almost-5. She can be a violent spitfire but seems to get over it quickly when met with calm firmness and then getting down to her level, talking nicely. My DH on the other hand gets exasperated with her behavior and she doesn't settle down.

[niggles]

I'd cut out the chatter and cut straight to counting 1 2 3 when he didn't come upstairs. The more consistently you avoid explanation and bargaining at the time of the misbehaviour, the better it works. Also has the added bonus of helping you keep your cool if you don't engage in conversation. He's 4. He doesn't care how reasonable your request is but he'll care if he knows how swiftly, calmly and consistently you will reinforce your requests with counting and time out. And hopefully with time his tantrums about them will subside. In the meantime an alternative time out space sounds like a good idea.

Have you read 123 Magic recently? I re read bits and pieces regularly to keep fresh on the context that makes it work well and find it really helps my ability to be consistent about it. I keep it on my bedside table.

[Chocolate Addict]

I agree with others, time out should not be in the bedroom or any other room with distractions.

I was wondering where he would pick up the swearing but by the sounds of it, he gets it from you. I don't think it is ever appropriate to swear in front of a child, never mind at them. It is not fair to tell a kid off for swearing by swearing. That is like smacking a child because they hit another child.