[Itchy_Witch]

My son is 4.5 and just started kindy, and we are still having toileting (#2s) issues. He's never fully mastered it.
We've seen GPs, paed, CHN, Ngala, everyone we can think of for assistance.
Towar the end of last year he was really quite bad, so I had a chat to his school about our options as they require kids to be fully toilet trained to begin. To them it was pretty black and white, if he couldn't use the toilet he couldn't start.
Over the Christmas break he has seemed to master it to an extent. He can make it to the toilet for poos and everything fine, if he has no pants or jocks or anything on. H minute he has pants on, he just goes in them.
The week before school started his teacher called to see how he was doing, and I was honest and told her he was making great progress, but still had occasional accidents. She said to start him at school as planned and we'd see how he goes, but if he was having accidents we would have to have a meeting and take it from there.
His first day was Wednesday, and he had an accident. The teacher asked if wee could meet after school on Friday. I had to work, but DH could make it. We said yes, but asked if I could be involved in the conversation via phone. Long story short, we rescheduled until Wednesday next week.
Come Friday, and he had another accident. Knowing I was a work, they called DH. Unbeknownst to them, during the day DH had attempted suicide again and taken to hospital, so I had rushed home from work. I had to go to the school to clean him up, no problem.
The teacher was very short with me when I was there, I don't know, maybe thinking I made up the reason behind wanting to reschedule or whatever, it isn't doesn't really bother me.
The crux of my issue is: what can I do? I can't make DS be ready to use the toilet. Are they going to realistically want me to clean him after every accident? Or will there be some other work around solution? Can they deny him access to school until he's mastered it? I know kindy isn't compulsory, but this is a private school so I will have to pay the fees regardless of whether he attends.
It just frustrates me to no end because I know he can go to the toilet. People have said I shouldn't have told the school about his problems upfront, otherwise they would have just assumed it was a simple accident and I wouldn't be having a meeting yet, but at the time he was really bad and I didn't think he would be ok to go.
He only attends two days a week.

[bark]

Does he still fit in pull-ups?

[Itchy_Witch]

He does (he's very small for his age) but when he's in them, he won't go to the toilet at all, even for wees, he just uses them as an excuse to be lazy.

[ekbaby]

I'm so sorry to hear about your DH's suicide attempt- it sounds like you all have a lot going on as a family

Do you think the stress of the situation could be having an impact on your DS's toileting? It's not uncommon for kids to regress or have toileting issues at times of higher stress.

Is the preschool aware of what is going on at home? I can understand wanting to keep things private, but maybe if they knew what was happening they would be more understanding.

Can any of the Drs/health people you have seen write a letter for the kindy explaining where he is at with toilet training, that you have been trying to address the issue (and sought help for it etc).

I would have thought that in the long term a kinder or school would not be able to discriminate/exclude on the basis of toileting needs, however a management plan might need to be in place with extra funding.. (as I don't think changing nappies is part of a teachers job) - maybe it depends if it is considered a condition as such?

[Kay1]

Have you shared with the school the issues with your DH. Surely if they realise that you are doing everything you can about the poo issue while other stresses are happening they will be a bit more accommodating?

[Itchy_Witch]

DH's issues have been going on since before DS was born, so I don't think they could be contributing to his toileting problems? I was going to mention the issues to the teacher at the meeting (to be honest I'm not fussed about keeping it private, I'm not afraid to admit I need help when the situation arises).
I have got a letter from the paed to give to the school, but after the phone call from the teacher before school started I thought it seemed a bit pre-emotive to give it to them until we knew how he would go.
The paed says he just socially immature and will get it in time......which is the frustrating thing!
The call from the school yesterday was just the straw that broke the camels back for me - DH will be hospitalised for at least 4 weeks this time, and at a hospital 1.5 hours away, so I can only imagine the impact that alone will have on the kids.

[EssentialBludger]

My opinion won't be at all popular.

But no, I don't think he's ready for kindy. Teachers are not daycare workers, they have every right to expect a child be fully TT for school. I'm guessing you're in WA? Kindy is not compulsory, so I would keep him home until it is under control.

Next year in preprimary (compulsary) if it is still a problem, yes they can and will expect you to go and clean him up after every accident, as you should. Like I said, they're not daycare workers.

I'm very sorry about your DH.

[EssentialBludger]

Also, at the moment, the teachers probably aren't seeing them as "accidents". He's only been for 2 days, and has pooed his pants on both. He hasn't yet been a day without one, so right now they're every day occurrences.

They probably can't exclude him (at a public school anyway, don't know about private?), but surely there comes a point where the parent has to say "OK, this isn't really fair on anyone, he's probably not ready".

Because it's not really fair. On the teacher, on you who has to go and clean him up everyday, and especially on your little boy, who may become embarrassed and possibly teased.

I don't know what the answer is, but I'd be thinking very carefully about it.

[AvadaKedavra]

Just because your husbands issues are long term doesn't mean they're not having an impact.

[Itchy_Witch]

My opinion won't be at all popular.

But no, I don't think he's ready for kindy. Teachers are not daycare workers, they have every right to expect a child be fully TT for school. I'm guessing you're in WA? Kindy is not compulsory, so I would keep him home until it is under control.

Next year in preprimary (compulsary) if it is still a problem, yes they can and will expect you to go and clean him up after every accident, as you should. Like I said, they're not daycare workers.

I'm very sorry about your DH.

Is it really that black and white though? No shades of grey at all?
I can't help but think the problem was the fact I w upfront and honest that last year he was having problems. Otherwise they would have just attributed to being an accident, and I really don't think they'd be calling me in for a meeting this soon. I've heard other parents - DS isn't the only one in the class who has had an accident, but I think I was the only one who voiced my concerns about him before he started.
I guess if it boils down to it and it is tha black and white to the school, I'm going to have to have to pull both kids out and put them in the local public school. I can't pay the private fees indefinitely to hold his place (you have to give a terms notice to withdraw), and sending both kids to different schools isn't an option because I can't be in two places at once for drop off and pick up.