[Z-girls rock]

So I saw this in this article: http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/life/the-1...0205-2dw83.html

essentially a list of 'best practice ways to live' developed by a guy called Alain de Botton

I think it is a pretty good list.
Resilience: Keeping going even when things are looking dark.

Empathy: The capacity to connect imaginatively with the sufferings and unique experiences of another person.

Patience: We should grow calmer and more forgiving by being more realistic about how things actually happen

Sacrifice: We won't ever manage to raise a family, love someone else or save the planet if we don't keep up with the art of sacrifice

Politeness: Politeness is closely linked to tolerance, -the capacity to live alongside people whom one will never agree with, but at the same time, cannot avoid.

<li>Humour: Like anger, humour springs from disappointment, but it is disappointment optimally channelled.

<li>Self-awareness: To know oneself is to try not to blame others for one's troubles and moods; to have a sense of what's going on inside oneself, and what actually belongs to the world.

<li>Forgiveness: It's recognising that living with others is not possible without excusing errors.

<li>Hope: Pessimism is not necessarily deep, nor optimism shallow.

<li>Confidence: Confidence is not arrogance - rather, it is based on a constant awareness of how short life is and how little we will ultimately lose from risking everything.


(sorry that the formatting is a bit weird).


I am still thinking about the list. Do we need it? It is just a good starting place for an attempt at outlining ethical living?

I was raised in an athiest household but have since become Buddhist. I would like to see compassion included, to me compassion and what is derived from it loving-kindness (or metta) is most important.

what do you think?

[noi'mnot]

It's a bit of a "how not to be an a*s*hole" list, really. And, I think it's very much how many people try to live their lives, whether atheist or not.

Whilst compassion can be an aspect of some of the points on the list (like empathy, patience, self-awareness, forgiveness) it would have been a good addition - but 11 commandments doesn't really sound quite as good, does it?

[Lucretia Borgia]

Yes, I read the article this morning ...I think it's a good list.

I found it interesting he used the word "sacrifice"....I must admit its a concept I struggle with...especially in the Christian sense of what God sacrificed for mankind.....I was never fully comfortable with that aspect of Christian dogma....I know I am being too literal about it, I can't explain it very well.....

[RealityBites]

Hmm, I like the general idea but they are all just qualities. Very New Testament. How does one go about cultivating a quality such as patience? (I am an intolerant, angry atheist who finds it very hard to forgive lol)

I like the directness of the Hebrew Scriptures 'Thou shalt not'. Much clearer with no unnecessary moral philosophy

ETA Lucretia, that was my first reaction too. What if I don't want to be a particularly 'good'/nice person?! One of the critiques of morality in religion is that it is an overt (political) attempt to keep the masses under control.

This post has been edited by RealityBites: 06/02/2013, 01:11 PM

[Saecularis Angel...]

It looks to me like a fairly standard attempt at a system of virtues ethics - an approach to ethics which I believe goes back to Aristotle.

His list included courage, temperance, liberality, munificence, high-mindedness, right ambition, good temper, friendly civility, sincerity, wittiness, modesty and "just resentment" (which I think means something like righteous anger).

At other times other groups have had similar lists of virtues, like the medieval Christian "holy virtues": faith, hope, charity, prudence, temperance, fortitude, justice.

As you can see, different influences lead to the inclusion or dropping of different virtues, but there's still a lot of overlap. We tend to be fairly consistent about what we consider as good character.

Personally, I tend to prefer other approaches to ethical thinking, but I think that's mostly about personality rather than the inherent worth of the different approaches. Virtue ethical systems have a lot to be said for them.

If I were drawing up a list, love or one of its related terms (charity, compassion, whatever) would have to be pretty high on it.

[rosie28]

I like the list, although I tend to think compassion should rate a mention. I'm stridently atheist, but I don't think there is anything wrong with "do unto others as you would have others do unto you" - surely if more people (religious people included) just kept to that, then we would be better off.

[ForsakenTruth]

I quite like the original 10 commandments without the religious bits.

- Don't Steal
- Don't Murder
-Don't cheat or lie
-Don't hit on married people and if you're married don't pretend you're single
- Do on to others as you would have done on to you
- Do not want for what others have
- Respect your parents
-Take a day to relax and be grateful for what you have

You could replace the God bits with show tolerance and remember you might right but you might also be wrong.

[Pooks*potters]

It's a bit meh, isn't it? Seems to be more about ME and how I can tolerate other people. I see us as being a bit more interconnected than that. But oh well. My ethics are far more related to kindness, challenging injustice, and considering how my actions impact the environment and others. I find this list to be lacking.

[Jax12]

It's a bit meh, isn't it? Seems to be more about ME and how I can tolerate other people. I see us as being a bit more interconnected than that. But oh well. My ethics are far more related to kindness, challenging injustice, and considering how my actions impact the environment and others. I find this list to be lacking.

I don't know...these latest boys in toilets/change room threads have really highlighted to me a poor sense of community. People saying my needs trump yours or vice versa. I think it's worthwhile to take time and focus on your own tolerance, empathy and self-awareness...do we need a list like this? For me, this thread has reminded me to stop and take stock of the values I'm instilling in my child and encourages me to look at the big picture and make sure I'm not missing anything...this list in particular? I think everything in there is important but agree with PP in that it's a bit lacking. I would hope that without a prescribed checklist I inherently posess and value these qualities, which will in turn be promoted to my children through my behaviour.

[niggles]

Definitely missing a bit of 'just resentment' for me.