[amaza]

I'm wondering if anybody knows the process for reporting stolen goods to Cash Converters and if charges need to be laid for Cash Converters to listen?

I'll try to keep the story without too many identifying details but need to give a bit of background.

'John' is related to and lives with 'Scott' in a family home. Both are in their mid-late twenties and both spend a lot of time with the same group of friends. None of these friends are aware of this situation as it's kept very quiet.

John has never been able to hold down a job, is on Newstart allowance but is often cut off for not going to appointments, has nothing to his name, doesn't pay board or bills, doesn't put in for food and is in a great deal of debt. John won't admit to any of this. He always has another job 'lined up' and something that is never his fault always ruins them. Centrelink always mess up his appointments and he sells his cars because there is something wrong with them. He vehemently denies having a gambling addiction but is often at the pub and shrugs his shoulders when asked for board/food money.

John has a habit of giving what he has to Cash Converters on a 'loan' basis for some quick cash and then usually gets all or a bit of it back when a Newstart payment comes in. He often has a phone 'in for repair' which is code for 'in Cash Converters'. He doesn't have much but sometimes will have golf clubs and then they will be gone, only to appear again a couple of weeks later. Same with sporting items and mobile phones.

Scott is the opposite and has a normal life with all bills paid on time etc. Scott has acquired many items over the past 10 years and has an array of tools, electrical items and gadgets. He owns his own car and has recently acquired a home loan. Scott has no addictions but does have a few drinks when out and about with his friends/family.

Scott does not trust John due to previous things going missing around the home and now has a lock on his bedroom door that is locked every time Scott leaves the house. Other family members lock their items up as well.

One day John SMSd Scott and told him that he needed to look in the letterbox and he was sorry. In there was a bunch of Cash Converters receipts with details of Scotts items on them. John had stolen them over the course of a month and taken them to Cash Converters. Scott was angry and hurt but nothing much was said. There was a small confrontation when Scott made John get his items back. These items were all in a locked shed that had been broken into. Scott got all items back.

This has since happened 2 other times but on those occasions John did not tell Scott. Scott or other members of the family noticed things missing and told John to get them back. John never mentions it but does usually get the items back at some point. John has never said sorry except for in the one SMS.

Last week items were stolen again and noticed by other family members. This time Scott has had enough and is sick of John thinking he can get away with it. John was acting as if nothing at all had happened even once he was aware that Scott knew. Scott called Cash Converters who said that if he reported the items stolen to the police that John would go on a file that would filter to all Cash Converters stores and John would not be allowed to trade again.

Scott then called the police who told him that he could report his items stolen. They said that because John is a family member he could sign off to say he didn't want the matter to be referred through the courts and charges wouldn't be laid (terminology?). The police weren't able to say whether Cash Converters would put John on their files if Scott signed off to not lay charges.

Scott is hesitating to report to the police. He doesn't want to press charges, he just wants the 'cash source' to be gone and the mistreatment of him and the family by John to be over. So basically he wants his items back and Cash Converters to stop buying from him.

John is not at the point where he is ready to get help. It's been offered but he denies there is anything wrong so there is nothing to help him with. John has been told to leave but he just says he won't go anywhere and it's not pushed any further. Scott will be moving out this year but there are other family members living in the home and because John doesn't give any indication that he is aware that what he is doing is wrong there is likely to be an expectation by John that he will be able to visit Scott in his new home. Despite Johns actions, Scott loves him dearly and there is no such thing as 'tough love' within the family at all and John is probably even enabled a little.

So does anybody know if charges need to be pressed to get Cash Converters to take any action? I know a police report needs to be done but can that be the end of it or does it need to be taken further by Scott?

Thanks in advance.

[~sydblue~]

I know that when a friend of mines DS stole her mothers jewellery, her brother went straight up to cash converters and described each piece in detail and told them if they didn't give them back they would be charged with receiving stolen goods. They gave them back after ringing the police. They lost a couple of thousand dollars.

[fizzy19]

I think technically there needs to be a stolen item pawned or sold to cash converters for there to be any fines imposed on cash converters eg through a police report. have you approached the store at all to tell them the items don't belong to him and can they stop taking stuff from him. I know it's hard with family but he will continue to steal unless the police get involved or he gets help. If he can't pawn stuff he may end up getting rid of the property another way, to get money.

[MelbChick]

If 'Scott' has photos and serial numbers, he can go into Cash Converters and prove that items are his and should be able to get them back (a friend did this once with camera equipment). I know they have a 2 week period where things are not put into the shop, but then once it's in the shop and you can compare with photo/serial number, I think they are obliged by law to acknowledge the item is stolen.
If it's referred to the police, then they compare their report against Cash Converters' log of items (before they go into the shop, ideally - but they don't always get to it in time). When we were robbed recently, the police officer advised that you can go in yourself. It's more efficient than waiting for the police to do it. So there must be some way of working it out after this point, but I can't answer the question about pressing charges.
It makes sense to me that the goods can be recovered without pressing charges though, if that's what he wants to do.

[CallMeProtart]

Surely Cash Converters is not the only business that pawns stuff.
Sounds like they are trying to get Cash Converters to deal with the problem without addressing the root cause... have they thought about what he'll do when that particular money source is cut off?

[wildflowers]

When my dd sold a couple of games to cash converters I had to show my drivers licence and the receipt clearly states is the item mine and not going to be repossessed. So if John has taken the items to cash converters and Scott has said they are stolen, John will be charged. John has obviously stolen a lot so he needs to be reported.

[**Xena**]

From what I understand (and I may be completely wrong so best to seek advice from more accurate sources ) He can fill out a police report and not lay charges but if he goes on record with Cash Converters and other Secondhand stores if he does it again he may then be reported by the store and charged for trying to sell stolen goods.

[amaza]

Thanks for your replies,

I know that when a friend of mines DS stole her mothers jewellery, her brother went straight up to cash converters and described each piece in detail and told them if they didn't give them back they would be charged with receiving stolen goods. They gave them back after ringing the police. They lost a couple of thousand dollars.

Cash Converters said they wouldn't do anything until the police were notified.

I think technically there needs to be a stolen item pawned or sold to cash converters for there to be any fines imposed on cash converters eg through a police report.

Scott doesn't care if Cash Converters is fined or not. They won't proceed with anything without a police report of some sort though.

When we were robbed recently, the police officer advised that you can go in yourself. It's more efficient than waiting for the police to do it.

That's interesting but different to what Scott was told. Maybe the store didn't want to deal with it at that point?

Surely Cash Converters is not the only business that pawns stuff.
Sounds like they are trying to get Cash Converters to deal with the problem without addressing the root cause... have they thought about what he'll do when that particular money source is cut off?

I get what you are saying but do you have any suggestions? How do they get to the root cause when John won't admit he has a problem, and in fact denies it?

Why should their items be his source of cash just because of the 'what if's' after it's cut off? Maybe he'll have to get a job? He was handed a job on a silver platter the other week. It was casual and not so glamorous but it was actually organised FOR him and all he had to do was turn up. He spent a week saying he was looking forward to it and on the Monday he didn't bother to make the effort. When asked why not he just shrugged his shoulders.

It has been thought about what he will do once that cash source is gone and it's not reasonable for anybody to expect that anybody would be in physical danger from him because he wants money (no expectation that he would become an armed robber etc). The most illegal thing he has done is this and maybe driving with a suspended license (for not paying fines). I've personally seen him walk away from his girlfriend and leave her to fend for herself when a man approached her to avoid the confrontation. I'd happily call him a coward but my views of him are probably skewed. With no reason to suspect anybody else is in danger there is no reason to care where his cash source is coming from.

It's well known that Cash Converters aren't the only pawn shop but it's the biggest and most well known. It would absolutely lower his opportunities.

He can fill out a police report and not lay charges but if he goes on record with Cash Converters and other Secondhand stores if he does it again he may then be reported by the store and charged for trying to sell stolen goods.

Thank you. Scott is aware that Cash Converters could charge John for making a false declaration and that's not really a concern. It isn't something that Scott would want to happen but that's the price John may have to pay for lying on a legal document and he accepts that. He just doesn't want to personally press charges.

I appreciate all of your replies.

[CallMeProtart]

I get what you are saying but do you have any suggestions? How do they get to the root cause when John won't admit he has a problem, and in fact denies it?

Why should their items be his source of cash just because of the 'what if's' after it's cut off? Maybe he'll have to get a job? He was handed a job on a silver platter the other week. It was casual and not so glamorous but it was actually organised FOR him and all he had to do was turn up. He spent a week saying he was looking forward to it and on the Monday he didn't bother to make the effort. When asked why not he just shrugged his shoulders.

It has been thought about what he will do once that cash source is gone and it's not reasonable for anybody to expect that anybody would be in physical danger from him because he wants money (no expectation that he would become an armed robber etc). The most illegal thing he has done is this and maybe driving with a suspended license (for not paying fines). I've personally seen him walk away from his girlfriend and leave her to fend for herself when a man approached her to avoid the confrontation. I'd happily call him a coward but my views of him are probably skewed. With no reason to suspect anybody else is in danger there is no reason to care where his cash source is coming from.

It's well known that Cash Converters aren't the only pawn shop but it's the biggest and most well known. It would absolutely lower his opportunities.

I guess what I was hinting at with the 'root cause' thing is that this guy steals his family's stuff - maybe reporting him to the police AND pressing charges would make him realise how serious that is. Protecting him from the consequences of his actions is unlikely to lead to any long term change.

And if he's as lazy as it is, my thought is that once cash converters is cut off, and since he seems pretty ok with stealing stuff, he'll
a) best case, find another pawn shop
b) if he can't, find somewhere he can actually SELL as opposed to pawn the goods for - in which case your family will lose their stuff for good,
c) find somewhere else to steal from and get caught by police anyway, but someone that WILL press charges

Just food for thought. Seems like a lot of trouble to cut off one avenue that is probably the least harmful one...

[WonkieTonkie]

I think it needs to be pursued, whether he's charged or not. Enabling someone just makes the problem bigger and the items will most likely get more valuable and stolen at a faster rate.

I have been through this with family and your heart breaks for them however breaking the law and stealing from family is not appropriate. The same laws apply to John as they do to you and he needs to be aware that this could get him in trouble.

Sometimes, through setting clear boundaries as expectations, you will find that people may be more inclined to get support. John told Scott that he had stolen things before, said sorry then did it again - when will Scott put his foot down? When his car goes missing?

We all need to abide by basic laws, whether or not we have addictions. The boundaries need to be set now and information about what support John can get should be provided to him.

This post has been edited by WonkieTonkie: 18/01/2013, 08:02 AM