[mummydo]

Hi,
Background: my eldest DD(just turned 5) has never completely TT with poos and im slowly going crazy. It actually brings me to tears. ( my 3yr old ds was tt at 2.5 and does better than her)
She was always an extremely scared kid. Scared of those rides in the shops (will not ride a bike) so when it came to pushing out a poo she is still petrified to this day and constantly has small bits of poo in undies. Once i find or smell it i usually have to bribe her to push out the poo. (it is not a fear of the toilet its a fear of pooing) I have tried bribes with sticker charts, toys,money etc.. also unless its so runny she will not push anywhere near hard enough to push out solid poos and i have no idea how to get her to do more effective pushing. She has never been constipated so the fear has not stemed from that.

I have seen a paediatrician who has prescribed benefibre and osmolax twice a day to make them soft but 6 mths down the track no better, he was not concerned when i saw him last a mth ago and said she will grow out of it. I have googled and assume she has encopresis but i have read up about 8-10yr olds still with the prob. (I CANNOT do this another 3-5yrs ).
I suggested a psycologist to the Paed and he said no not yet. (i think "I" will need one soon)

She starts school in 6 weeks and its my worst nightmare.
Has anyone had any experience in this or know of anyone that has i am at my wits end

Thanks for listening

[Dylan's Mummy]

I can't give you any advice really but can sympathise. My 9 year old step son still does this. He has improved over the years but it does still happen a couple of times a week. I can understand how you feel. If it is any help, my SS has only occasionally poooed his pants at school and he has never said that he has been teased about it.

I don't think it comes from a fear of pooing if she is 5 and it's still happening. They can be too distracted to notice how their body is feeling. It can also come from being constipated long term and having the bowel stretch and losing the sensations that it needs to tell her she needs to go to the toilet. When the poo builds up, often bits can break off and come out (called "sneaky poos" apparently).

We tried reward charts and punishments and a lot of other things but none of it works for too long. The best you can do is sit her on the toilet about 20 min after breakfast, lunch and dinner for about 5 min. If she goes, then that's good, but she possibly won't. This is to get their bowel used to emptying.

I've read up on this issue too and there doesn't seem to be too many really successful solutions. I think it just gets better with time, a LOT of time.

This post has been edited by Dylan's Mummy: 18/12/2012, 11:17 AM

[AMPSyd]

It does sound like encropsis.

My DS had it and parachoc worked wonders, softened things nicely. Yes, get her to go to the loo 20 mins after meals - the bowels work around this time.

I also didn't think DS was constipated as he went regularly - but - they were - TMI - huge. A Dr said said this can show constipation.

I found DS sensitive to some foods - paddle pops, pineapple juice (he now has apple juice), flavoured chips. He loved oats for breaky but I found that oats do block him up.

I read, here on EB - that too much fibre can actually block them up. Better use things that soften stools. Pears are good for that, as well prunes. Parachoc is a stool softener.

But it takes time as the bowels need to revert to the normal size (encropsis means the bowel is stretched and some leakage can occur).

Good luck.

[mummydo]

thanks for your reply's. I do put her on the toilet after meals however she can do nothing then have poo in pants 10mins later (so frustrating).
I have had her on parachoc untill i saw paed and started her on the osmolax (i didnt want to overload her. and even now with that and the benefibre and increased fibre in diet she can have a massive runny poo 3 times in one day then go 2 days of nothing then normal poo, so its so hard to adjust her dosages.
I have tried pear and prunes and she wont have a bar of them, even pear juice she wont touch. just trying high fibre cereals at the moment. I find it so hard to pinpoint any food relations.

[soapy]

My DS (5) doesn't seem to like to go to the toilet and if we don't take note he could go up to 7 days without going. He doesn't seem scared to go just would rather hold on than go. I am thinking of trying Parachoc over the holidays to get him more regular as the Dr said his bowels need retraining. He doesn't have accidents but just thought I would let you know you are not the only one. A school mum/friend has a little boy who soils himself at school has organised a plan so that if it happens the child goes to the office where a change of clothes is kept and they help him clean up.

[luke's mummu]

Have you tried prune juice? My 7 year old (who is a very fussy eater and also suffers from constipation) has about 1/2 a cup of prune juice over his weetbix every morning, then milk added. He will also drink small amounts of watered down prune juice occasionally.

[mummydo]

i have tried prune juice a while a go might give it another shot. Thanks

[rileys-mum]

Hi OP, we have just come out of 3 years of encorpresis. I can only tell you what has worked for us.
Please watch the amount of fibre you are giving. We have worked out that both my boys react to fibre and it causes them to clog up. With my eldest, we were on 3 sashets if movical and 50mls para choc a day. It was excessive and not good. Out of desperation I went and saw a naturopath who performed some Bowen therapy. We are now medication free but still have the occasional flare up. I know of 4 other families who have also had success with this condition and natural therapies so maybe just something to consider.

Op, it is a long, frustrating road that I would not wish upon everyone. Everytime there is an kids underwear sale on, stock up so that on those really bad days when you can't handle any more poo, you can just throw the soiled undies in the bin! Good luck

[mummydo]

thank you rileys-mum i will give a naturopath a go in the new year. its so hard to decide whether to keep going with all the stuff we are using ie benefibre and osmolax or stop and try something like what worked for you. since uping her fibre she has had quite big runny poos and alot in pants but im guessing its good as its keeping her empty and giving it a chance to get those muscles back to normal.
Its soooo sooooo hard and really resent her at times (hate to admit it)
also its so hard as everyone else around her (adults) tend to try to to say to her "why did you do that in your pants" in a dissapointing tone and are not encouraging to her. I am only just realising that she cannot help it and truley doesnt know when its there....

[handsfull]

Having been there and done that I totally agree with your Paed. Give her time and it will happen. You mentioned that she has been a very anxious child in the past, is she also sensory by chance. A lot to do with pooing is to do with the senses.

My DD1 started Prep and would still only go in pullups. So frustrating as I had been training them since 2 years.....However we found out she was a sensory child and it also has to do with letting go, with undies/pullups they feel it close to their skin, in the toilet there is nothing.. IFKWIM.

It took DD1 half way through Prep before she could go in a toilet and she worked out a pattern to get around school accidents. She went in the morning in a pullup or after school/at night in a pullup. Sometimes she wouldn't go for a few days - I think 10 days was a record for us and she was on all types of medicines.

She take Osmolax occasionally but only because I know she doesn't drink enough water sometimes and poos are hard and I want to make sure she doesn't get constipated or a fissure with trying to strain.

It will happen and try to get people to back off a bit on their comments, they may be young but they can still understand people's tones and words. I do not feel it is encoparesis based on what you have said, as my paed said my DD definitely did not fall into that category and he definitely had kids that did. The fact that she is going at all in any way is a good thing, just needs some fine tuning.....lol!

This post has been edited by handsfull: 19/12/2012, 09:36 PM