[Dinosaurus]

My sons Nanny is vegan and I love her LOVE her. So I have been looking for an appropriate vegan gift for Christmas.

In the course of this I stumbled onto some questions (including what the hell are in my current tampons and condoms if I have to buy special vegan ones!) So I asked the internet because the internet knows everything.

The internet told me there were lots of vegans hoping the whole world would go vegan.

Fine, so I asked the internet "what would happen if the whole world went vegan"

Among the replies (some of them well backed up with references although an awful lot of opinion too) I got the impression that rather than "save" the animals as i had thought, vegans want to save the planet by not having so many animals.

So they would happily let domesticated animals extinguish for the good of the planet.

Also some said we need to get rid of about 80% of the people, but not by killing them obviously, just by not making new ones

So, vegans - is this true? Are you actually wanting to kill off the animals rather than save them and hence save the planet from their (and our meat eaters) wasteful gases?

Thank you in advance for your help.

BTW I got the Nanny a vegan gift basket and cook book.

[la di dah]

Saying that beef cattle (for example) are unsustainable and should not be bred is not an argument for fewer animals in the planetary total, quite the contrary, as cattle grazing is a huge cause of habitat destruction and is pretty inefficient in terms of feeding people per acre.

And it's pretty easy to make the argument that, for example, that the never-having-been-born of some breeds of chicken are far preferable to life as a battery hen or unwanted male chick. It's not about hating domestic animals per se?

I don't think of myself as anti-dog when I wish dog-fighting was not an industry and that those puppies were never born in miserable litters to face a life of torment. It IS about saving animals.

Note: I am not a vegan. I just have hopes of finally making it as a real vegetarian.

I don't understand the surprise/confusion. You thought they were in favour of continuing to pasture cattle as, what, something to look at? Wouldn't preserved park land do that just as well?

[Ally'smum]

I am not vegan because I am too lazy to be that organised with food preparation, but I think the whole world would be a better place if more people or everyone was vegan.

All the vegans I know are so healthy and look amazing. We wouldn't have half the cancers/obesity/high medical costs of looking after fatties if we were all vegan! And environmentally it would be better to have less animals and people so win/win.

I am not vegan because I am too lazy to be that organised with food preparation, but I think the whole world would be a better place if more people or everyone was vegan.

All the vegans I know are so healthy and look amazing. We wouldn't have half the cancers/obesity/high medical costs of looking after fatties if we were all vegan! And environmentally it would be better to have less animals and people so win/win.

[CupOfCoffee]

I am a ex vegetarian now meat eater. For myself, I didn't support the existence of animals for the purpose of human consumption. That would mean, at the time, my preference was for there not to be cattle/ship/pig/chicken etc farming.

This was especially relevant in the Australian context where hooved animals cause so much environmental damage.

So that would mean I wouldn't want cows running free over the Australian country side to breed freely.

[Dinosaurus]

No, I knew they weren't in favour of continued farming but I always thought of a kind of hippy 'animals return to the wild' type scenario. I didn't expect to see the domesticated animals killed off completely.

Yes i know beef farming is very inefficient.

So if we all stopped eating meat what would happen to the current domesticated farm animals? Kill them to stop further strain on resources in keeping them alive? Turn them out into the wild knowing they wont make it but letting some other element of nature kill them? What, in actual fact, would happen to these animals?

[la di dah]

No, I knew they weren't in favour of continued farming but I always thought of a kind of hippy 'animals return to the wild' type scenario. I didn't expect to see the domesticated animals killed off completely.

Yes i know beef farming is very inefficient.

So if we all stopped eating meat what would happen to the current domesticated farm animals? Kill them to stop further strain on resources in keeping them alive? Turn them out into the wild knowing they wont make it but letting some other element of nature kill them? What, in actual fact, would happen to these animals?

They're domesticated. The whole point is they've been changed from what they were. They aren't built the same way as the wild species. Most of them are farmed in areas very far from where they originated (for instance cows/sheep are not Australian...) and would either displace native animals or promptly die due to anti-survival traits bred into them. Too much wool, or too fat, or just plain too big.

If we all stopped eating meat I suspect that many would be killed as soon as they don't turn a profit. Not about animal welfare, that, just agricultural profit margin. Plenty of people don't even keep their companion pet animals after they start to get old and un-cute or cost too much in vet bills.

From an ethical/anti-cruelty/environmental perspective, though, I'm not sure that's even worse.

[Apageintime]

So if we all stopped eating meat what would happen to the current domesticated farm animals? Kill them to stop further strain on resources in keeping them alive? Turn them out into the wild knowing they wont make it but letting some other element of nature kill them? What, in actual fact, would happen to these animals?

Well I'm sure everyone wouldn't turn around tomorrow and decide to be vegan. It would be a gradual process that would lead to less and less cows being bred (for example) until eventually there were only a couple left (possibly in a zoo?). Much like what happens with current wild animals facing exitinction. Its a gradual thing.

[blue4me]

Hmmm seems a bit strange....

I am a vegetarian, have been been I was a young child and always will be. I was a vegan for several years but then went back to just being a lacto ovo vegetarian - I do eat eggs and dairy but no meat from any type of animal whatsoever.

During my vegan years I never thought this what you have described with having very few animals including domesticated and same with people. I would say that this is an extremist vegan view of the world but I don't think that most would think that way. As a vegetarian, I would like to see the breeding and killing of animals for human consumption drop but realistically I don't think it will happen, too many people love their meat eating including my DH!

I also love that we can have wonderful domesticated animals to be part of our families. I love my beautiful rescue dog like one of my kids, I couldn't imagine not wanting to help out and save these animals and give them a good life. It does make me extremely upset to hear about any form of animal abuse and often wonder why on earth some people would have them if they hate them do much.

What is in the condoms and tampons vegans can't use? I wasn't aware of that one!

[pyramidsong]

I am vegan and have many vegan friends, and first and foremost I will say there is no consensus on such matters. It's not even really a movement, as there are so many diverse and disparate positions and opinions. You have your palm oil free vegans, your abolitionists, your welfarists, your "I'm vegan but I'm not fussed what anyone else does"vegans, your militants...

As for the original question, it's a tricky one, and not easily reconcilable. I would like to keep a certain percentage of farm animals about (even if the world went vegan) for their *own* sakes. No-one ever thinks of that- the world is still wrapped up in, "what can the animals do for humans?" I would like to have as many of them as can be sustained in sanctuaries so they can live happily and cared-for, without us asking anything of them. And we can enjoy interacting with them, too. Pigs, cows, sheep and chickens are, if given the chance, as responsive and affectionate as domestic pets.

Domestic animals I feel much the same. Care for the extant ones and keep a sustainable percentage going.

[amabanana]

Wouldn't it just be a natural cessesation if we stopped breeding cattle/pigs/chickens for human consumption? Just like if we don't have more than 2 babies per couple population will not increase. If we don't replace existing domesticated animals with new ones they will all either be eaten or die of old age. Either way they would become extinct.