[Mumto1bub]

I have been attending a bible study group at my church and this week we have been talking about sin. It came up about all sin being equal. It was discussed that there are no levels of sins and that there is no difference between say a murderer and a liar or an unbeliever for example. No I am really struggling with this concept. I can't get around in my head that God considers murder the same as someone telling a white lie = that both are doomed to hell unless they repent. I would love to hear others thoughts on this, on sin in general. Please share your pearls of wisdom on sin.

[cerberus]

I have been attending a bible study group at my church and this week we have been talking about sin. It came up about all sin being equal. It was discussed that there are no levels of sins and that there is no difference between say a murderer and a liar or an unbeliever for example. No I am really struggling with this concept. I can't get around in my head that God considers murder the same as someone telling a white lie = that both are doomed to hell unless they repent. I would love to hear others thoughts on this, on sin in general. Please share your pearls of wisdom on sin.

The bible is open to interpretation. The bible is not perfect, just like God & Jesus who aren't perfect. The bible can be wrong. It's dangerous for people to pick up the bible and regard it as something that they should strictly live their life by. It is a guide. I think the most sensible thing is to not wholly believe in everything and anything you read in the bible, but pick the bits that are meaningful and important to you. Obviously all sin isn't equal. It sounds like something that has been misinterpreted.

[pratique]

I am Catholic and we certainly don't believe that all sin is equal.

There are some sins that are considered 'mortal' (dangereous for the soul) This would include things such as murder, rape etc.

Other sins, while also spiritually cutting us off from God are not considered as serious.

I'm sure someone else could explain it more eloquantly.

[Ianthe]

I think the point is that all sin grieves God. No matter what it is. And for whatever sin we commit we need to repent.

[skae]

Sin separates us from God. We are all sinners since the fall of Adam and Eve, whether we live the best life possible or are the worst person in the history of the world. God cannot tolerate any sin. When you believe in and receive Jesus, His death on the cross covers your sins, they are cleansed from you, and God sees you as blameless.

It's hard for me to explain this in writing, I find it easier to talk.

[Saecularis Angel...]

For this topic, I have armed myself with chocolate as I type. I wonder if that's a sin?

Broadly speaking, there are two Christian schools of thought on sin.

One divides sin into two kinds: mortal sin and venial sin. This kind of approach has its basis in the kinds of things said in 1 John 5: "If you see your brother or sister committing what is not a mortal sin, you will ask, and God will give life to such a one—to those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin that is mortal; I do not say that you should pray about that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not mortal." So this kind of approach draws a distinction between "petty" sin, if you like, and the really serious stuff.

The other points out that all sin is of essentially the same kind. The difference between so-called mortal and venial sin is not one of kind but only of degree. This is the way that Paul tends to write about sin in many of his letters, but an example would be when he says that "the wages of sin is death." He doesn't make a distinction there; and he's right insofar as all sin is a falling short of the glory of God; all sin is a failure to be the person I am created to be; all sin is a participation in the sickness, the slavery, the death which has humanity by the throat.

As you can see, there's a Biblical basis for both ways of thinking about things. I think both of them say important things about the human reality of sin; because I, too, don't think God sees all wrongdoing in exactly the same way, even if it is all "wrongdoing."

I also think that there's a question of context. It can be argued that what John was talking about in his letter is the sin that believers commit after conversion, after baptism. Post-baptismal sin was a huge issue in the early church; many believed that if you committed a mortal sin after your baptism you betrayed God and irrevocably forfeited your salvation (which is one reason why some people delayed baptism even until their deathbeds, for fear of sinning too badly afterwards).

Whereas it can be argued that Paul is talking about the reality of sin before conversion; when he talks about the wages of sin as death, he does so in the context of presenting faith in Christ as the life-giving alternative. He is putting a choice in front of his readers: choose the sinful system of this world (and therefore death), or Christ (and therefore life). In that context he doesn't need to make a distinction between murder and excessive chocolate consumption, because without Christ (in his view) there is no escape from death at all.

Doomed to hell? After much wrestling with this, I have come to the personal position that I believe that those who don't go on to eternal life with God don't go to a place of eternal torment, but have their existence end after this life. I guess I don't believe in a stereotypical cartoon hell. But that's really a whole separate topic!

[pratique]

Doomed to hell? After much wrestling with this, I have come to the personal position that I believe that those who don't go on to eternal life with God don't go to a place of eternal torment, but have their existence end after this life. I guess I don't believe in a stereotypical cartoon hell. But that's really a whole separate topic!

Out of interest Ange...is there theology to back this up? I often wonder this.

[Saecularis Angel...]

There's theology to back up any position you want. The question is, is it good theology?

In all seriousness, yes, there is, I did a lot of reading on it a year or two back. However, I am swamped today and really don't have time to go trawling the textbooks for it. If you'd really like me to look into it, can you remind me in a couple of weeks when semester's over, and I'll happily put some points together for you?

[Mumto1bub]

Thanks for the replies so far.

He is putting a choice in front of his readers: choose the sinful system of this world (and therefore death), or Christ (and therefore life). In that context he doesn't need to make a distinction between murder and excessive chocolate consumption, because without Christ (in his view) there is no escape from death at all.

Still I still struggle with this too. What about those people in this world never exposed to the Bible or Christ or the "Christian God"? Because by this argument, people are then condemned to death simply for being born into a part of the world that is without Christ because thay actually have no opportunity to even know who Christ is and therefore even choose Christ to be a part of their life? How is that fair? (I hope i make sense??)

[GlitterFarts]

This is just my opinion

Yes, in God's eyes, all Sin is equal - as in ALL Sin offends God equally, regardless of what it is. No matter how you define it, all Sin is offensive to God and unlike a previous PP said - God is Perfect, therefore things that are UNperfect have no place in front of God.

That said, there are parts of the Testament that state different levels of concern that God has for Sin. So I don't think He "judges" Sin equally. For example, it says somewhere that if a Leader/Parent/Guardian purposely lead their followers/children from the rightous path of God, they will be dealt with severely. To my way of thinking, God has different views of Sin, just as we do.

And yes, we will receive the same punishment as those who sin 'worse' than us, unless we repent.

But I also take heart from the fact that Jesus/God understands that we ARE just human and that we are fallable and sinful and that He will weigh that when we come before him.