[JAPN2]

I was wondering about that very question, what makes existing schools so lacking? Why is the access to acceptable education not reaching every Australian child?

One of the problems I see in our local primary (where 2 of 3 of my kids attend - 3rd will be going next year) is that some of the teachers should be sacked.They are well passed their prime and cannot be bothered. I don't think this is just down to money.

Whereas at a private school, the lacklustre teaching would not be tolerated as they are results driven.

I'm not sure how more money without some method of performance management is going to make a real difference. And so far the education union has totally ruled it out.

Funding is one issue. But you need to change the ethos of some public schools.The change in culture is hard to achieve and requires a shakeup of public school teaching across the country.

And BTW, I live in a reasonably well heeled suburb where the education level of the parents is high so there is no lack of fundraising for extras although of course teacher's salaries are funded by the State.

Another thing that has to be addressed is what is the baseline expectation vs. the wants? For example, are shade sails necessary when there is sunscreen and hats? Are laptops needed? etc.etc. That criteria needs to be established. And yes I am aware some schools struggle with the 'real' basics.

[Azadel]

I do, too.

Maybe, in order to increase "fairness", parents living in a high SES area, sending their children to a high SES public school, should be required to send their children to a low SES public school instead, thereby freeing up spaces for lower SES children to attend the well-regarded public school.

Then I'll feel better about reducing funds to private schools.

The idea behind equitable finding is that no matter where you live, you have access to a good, well funded public school.

[hiccamups]

Another thing that has to be addressed is what is the baseline expectation vs. the wants? For example, are shade sails necessary when there is sunscreen and hats? Are laptops needed? etc.etc. That criteria needs to be established. And yes I am aware some schools struggle with the 'real' basics.

Thank you for your reply to my question. I'd love to hear more from parents who feel their public school is lacking and why.

Growing up myself, most of the schools I went to were very poorly resourced but the thing that stood out to me was culture. I went to one public school in a country location which was so fabulous. Despite being low SES and public, the culture of the community was very different. It lifted the entire energy of the school.

And how do you resolve that with funding to the schools? How do you change the culture of the families? I understand the idea of getting the kids early and hoping to change the next generation, but surely there's more we can be doing to actually shift the poor culture of some schools.

[purplekitty]

Growing up myself, most of the schools I went to were very poorly resourced but the thing that stood out to me was culture. I went to one public school in a country location which was so fabulous. Despite being low SES and public, the culture of the community was very different. It lifted the entire energy of the school.

The culture of the school is hard to change by just throwing money at it.

A "culture of achievement" was the the main reason we sent our children privately than to the local high school.
Not for networking opportunities, meeting the "right" friends or bragging rights with other parents.

[Soccer Mum]

I agree with it, why should my child miss out on extra resources because he is in a private school? The public school is horrid, and we had no other choices due to zoning, and unfortunately no extra amount of funding can change the attitudes of the parents whose children attend that public school. Not all independent schools are loaded with money.

So what about the children whose parents cant afford to send them to the private school? They are stuck at the 'horrid' school and now they have to compete for jobs and uni places against other kids who get even more of a head start.

I totally think its going the wrong way, we need to improve public education so that more people will use it .

[hiccamups]

I totally think its going the wrong way, we need to improve public education so that more people will use it .

Bonnybabe was talking about bullying and violence at the other school (or somebody was) so how does funding resolve that?

[katpaws]

now they have to compete for jobs and uni places against other kids who get even more of a head start.

Technically, LSES students do not have to compete for university places. They have removed the capping of student numbers in higher education and a university can take on as many students as they wish in any course (apart from some medical courses). As long as someone has the required ATAR for a particular university or has the requirements for alternative entry, they can get in. This year all universities should have in place access and equity programs to attract and retain more LSES students. It may be different when universities get permission to charge their own feeds for courses, though, and if the proposed changes to HECS occur. Also, many LSES students who enter higher education are now no longer classified as LSES because they do not meet the criteria of the (interim) measurement of LSES at this point in time, ie they have to come from a certain postcode and be on income support.

Realistically, students from private schools are more likely to be actively encouraged to attend HE and to actually attend university, and LSES students with HE entry level ATAR scores generally go on to university.

[Canberra chick]

Howdo, to answer your question of how having, say, my family at the local public school helps the kid with learning needs. Well, our families contribute most of the fundraising money that pays for new books including readers that are tailored for children with learning difficulties. We fund iPads that help children with sensory issues.
We fund things so the school can devote more of its money to having more classroom aides.
We also have a more proactive parent body so important issues are raised with the school and the department.

I grew up in an area with 20% unemployment. Nobody went to private schools. Amazingly children in that area went to university, went into professional jobs. Without the help of private tutors or fancy equipment somehow it worked.
The teachers were good and parents supported the school if a child was suspended, got a detention, their parents punished them too nested,of complaining to the school. I remember doing my homework in the local library as there was nowhere to do it at home.
Private education is queue jumping, thinking you can buy your way ahead and in an allegedly egalitarian country it stinks.

[howdo]

No. A few extra dollars in fund raising does not actually address the needs of the child who is verified with a learning disability.

You can tell yourself warm fuzzy stories that it does because you buy a few resources from the proceeds of the cake stall, but when that child has waited 4 years to get assessed due to lack of funding, you're kidding yourself.

[Guest_Dinah_Harris_*]

I remember when my cousin was showing off her stripes that were sewn into her blazer (private obviously). There was debating, violin, drama etc etc. I was only a few years older and had always gone to some of the roughest schools in our State. I was so shocked that she was PROUD of that.

In the culture I was schooled in, you would have burned that blazer quick smart or your face would be more black and blue than the blazer or those stripes.

Kids were stabbed for far less than participating in the debating team.

This was my experience at a regional public high school, too. It was well known that our school was the gateway for teachers who wanted to get jobs at the private schools in the nearby city.

The culture of that school discouraged excellence at any level, to put it mildly. I would not, for love or money, send my kids to a school like that.

Additional funds might have provided extension programs for bright kids, but when those bright kids get beat up on the way home from school for being nerds and scholars, the bright kids quickly learn not to appear to be too smart.

Obviously not all public schools are like this, but some are. And it tainted my opinion of egalitarian education so much that I will choose a low-fee, religious private school for my children.