[peppersmum]

As others have said it can impact on school. Missing 2 months in yr 11 or yr 12 would be a huge worry.

That can happen with anything, I know kids who have come down with Glandular Fever in Yr 11/12 and have missed heaps of school. There's probably more chance of that happening then measles etc. My older kids did not have their 4 yr old shots so would have had to be excluded for measles and they have done all primary school and my DD1 has done 2 years of high school with no exclusions for anything, so it really is rare.

[liveworkplay]

Not all vaccinatable illnesses can have their titre proven via blood test (WC for one) So what then?

Yes you can, it is just not routinely used. Most diseases that you can get a blood test for to confirm diagnoses can also be tested for seroconversion. Most viruses are tested for using ELIZA techniques or similar that all employ antibodies as part of their test method. If they can make the antibodies for these kits, then they can also test for them. That isn't to say that all testing is available for commercial use though, but the technology is there.

[07gbam]

How have non vaxxers affected my life?
Well, in many ways.
The lingering and haunting memory of watching a child in an emergency department struggling for breath.
One of my grand-in-laws dying of tetanus years ago.
Wondering whose unimmunised child will be a nice little vector for a communicable disease to impact on my own family.
Meeting a man who contracted polio during the epidemic and listen to his anger and disbelief at parents nowadays whose 'research' ( presumably the net and natural therapy book kind of research, not the years of postgrad study kind) has armed them with false science to justify their 'right to choose'.
Watching as society slowly sinks into the " Me Me Me, My rights, I know best, how dare you tell me what to do I've done my research, don't you know the doctors are trying to control you, I can do what I think is best for me and hang the rest of you..." syndrome . ( For which there is no abbreviation)
Listening to that annoying background hum from the nonvaxxing mother at our school who loves to imply she knows more than the rest of us who are obviously so blindly led by the medical 'establishment'. ( And sadly watching her kids getting serious chickenpox while the vaccinated kids got a mild tolerable dose).
Wondering at what stage as a society we give up on caring about the greater picture rather than our individual interests.
Wondering how the non vaxers will explain the re-emergence of these preventable diseases when they eventually seep back into the community and carry away innocent children.
Wishing that we could somehow send every vaccine refused by a parent in australia to a small child in the third world where they could only dream of having their children protected against serious
disease.
And wondering why those who believe they should be able to exercise their right to 'choose' criticise someone running their own business who also has a right to choose.

And can someone please tell me what 'research' means nowadays? What exactly did you do in your research? where did you access information? from whom? how did you discriminate between articles you read? did you consider who funded/supported/reviewed the journal articles? what understanding of statistics do you have? ( school stats, undergrad level stats 101 for example, or post grad study). Have you ever produced a paper of your own? do you know the difference between a randomised double blind controlled study in a peer reviewed journal, and an article based on supposition?
Please tell. Because all the time here I am reading about 'research'.

[seepi]

Measles was starting an outbreak in Canberra, mostly halted by the end of school they think, so the timing was good.

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/local...ed/2375468.aspx

It is unusual to have to keep kids away from schoioil for disease, but sadly it is becoming more common.

We have had whooping cough and chicken pox notifications more than once at daycare, (which is so scary as the baby room has kids who would not be fully vaxed due to age.)

We have now had this measles scare, and had anyone in our family come down with cold like symptoms my Dd would have had to miss her last celebration day at preschool, which would have devastated her.

So as a family, 'education' has already been somewhat affected by communicable disease.

ps - adding the link

This post has been edited by seepi: 11/01/2012, 01:15 PM

[Seuss]

How have non vaxxers affected my life?
Well, in many ways.
The lingering and haunting memory of watching a child in an emergency department struggling for breath.
One of my grand-in-laws dying of tetanus years ago.
Wondering whose unimmunised child will be a nice little vector for a communicable disease to impact on my own family.
Meeting a man who contracted polio during the epidemic and listen to his anger and disbelief at parents nowadays whose 'research' ( presumably the net and natural therapy book kind of research, not the years of postgrad study kind) has armed them with false science to justify their 'right to choose'.
Watching as society slowly sinks into the " Me Me Me, My rights, I know best, how dare you tell me what to do I've done my research, don't you know the doctors are trying to control you, I can do what I think is best for me and hang the rest of you..." syndrome . ( For which there is no abbreviation)
Listening to that annoying background hum from the nonvaxxing mother at our school who loves to imply she knows more than the rest of us who are obviously so blindly led by the medical 'establishment'. ( And sadly watching her kids getting serious chickenpox while the vaccinated kids got a mild tolerable dose).
Wondering at what stage as a society we give up on caring about the greater picture rather than our individual interests.
Wondering how the non vaxers will explain the re-emergence of these preventable diseases when they eventually seep back into the community and carry away innocent children.
Wishing that we could somehow send every vaccine refused by a parent in australia to a small child in the third world where they could only dream of having their children protected against serious
disease.
And wondering why those who believe they should be able to exercise their right to 'choose' criticise someone running their own business who also has a right to choose.

And can someone please tell me what 'research' means nowadays? What exactly did you do in your research? where did you access information? from whom? how did you discriminate between articles you read? did you consider who funded/supported/reviewed the journal articles? what understanding of statistics do you have? ( school stats, undergrad level stats 101 for example, or post grad study). Have you ever produced a paper of your own? do you know the difference between a randomised double blind controlled study in a peer reviewed journal, and an article based on supposition?
Please tell. Because all the time here I am reading about 'research'.

What she said!!!!!

People just cant seem to understand that the reason these diseases are rare and they feel 'safe & justified' in making the choice on behalf of their children is because in the past people only didn't vax for a damn good reason (medical reasons reactions etc)

And let's face it, you make the choice for your children - glad you can live with the possible consequences - god forbid one of your children be permanently damaged or worse die because of your choice to not do everything in your power to prevent them catching one of these diseases (or if caught a vax child should not get as serious a dose)

[Velouria]

07gbam.the only flaw in your post is that I wish I could have articulated my feelings in such a thoughtful and cohesive manner. Well done.

It's such a shame that with more knowledge available than ever, we appear to know less.

I also take issue with the 'pick and choose' approach non vaxxers have to medical science that has more than likely saved their child or one they know on occasion. I know it is social death to take issue with this - but I no longer care.

Still waiting on the 'research' that counteracts this stance that just appears so arrogant and ignorant.

[baby*girl]

It has not affected me in anyway. However, I have made CHOICES to keep my children home from care if another child is getting their Vacs, so they would not be exposed to the virus.

This was only relevant for my third child. So he attended a small family day care group. One year I kept him home for 6 weeks in total as the other three children were all having their 12 month vacs at different times during the year, so 2 weeks each time DS was kept home. Was not an issue for us.

In no other way has it had any impact on our lives. We have had equal child care options to anyone else, it has never had an impact on any of our family or friend relationships.

EB makes a much bigger deal than the rest of the world does. My first child was fully Vaxed and my second had early vax til they were diagnosed with neurological conditions. Of course had we not experienced such medical conditions all my children would be fully Vaxed.

This post has been edited by baby*girl: 11/01/2012, 10:23 PM

[shatavari]

07gam, Can I ask how one of your grand-in-laws deaths from tetanus was caused by other non-vaxers? Is that what you were meaning? Tetanus is a non-communicable bacterial infection, no? Did you mean that he/she, as a non-vaxer, affected your life?

This post has been edited by shatavari: 12/01/2012, 02:56 PM

[purplekitty]

07gam, Can I ask how one of your grand-in-laws deaths from tetanus was caused by other non-vaxers? Is that what you were meaning? Tetanus is a non-communicable bacterial infection, no? Did you mean that he/she, as a non-vaxer, affected your life?

07gam woud have meant that the death was a result of not being vaccinated because I'm sure she knows more than us about vaccine preventable diseases and their epidemiology.

[07gbam]

The family were non vaxxers, and actually two of that extended family died of 'lockjaw', and were in intensive care, where they eventually died.
Am fully aware of the non communicable status of tetanus.
It's not only the non communicable nature of vaccine preventable diseases that affects people. It's the preventable loss of a single, precious life, of someone who means something to a lot of people.
It's as simple as standing on a rusty nail, getting bitten by a pet, or a dirty, contaminated wound that can end your life, or that of your child.
Mindless waste of precious human life.
If people's 'alternative' decisions only affected them, and not the lives of family, friends, loved ones and even unborn babies, then it would not be quite so maddeningly illogical. But to subject others to grief, sadness and loss, and to the general community who inevitably foot the bill for medical care ( coz believe me, there's no intensive care unit of naturopathy- these folk come running in looking for help from the 'establishment' they so despise and mistrust) is nothing short of selfish.