[Canberra chick]

I don't think DS is anything like gifted, but he is very bright for his age, if a wee bit lazy if something challenges him as he is used to doing well. His school has a differentiated curriculum and they 'stream' within class, so DS is on the top reading table, usually top for maths but occasionally drops to second table. Kids are not fixed in their stream, can move up or down if they don't get that bit of the curriculum (typically maths). DS and a couple of other kids in the class do extension activities too. I feel quite happy with this, especially as his extension time does not eat into other areas of the curriculum, like music, which he loves. Whereas as a kid, I got maths extension work when the other kids were doing pottery, which would have been great for my rather poor fine motor skills!

I did talk to his teacher about home readers, as they had nothing for DS's level, but she was happy for him to read his own things at home, and as he would rather read than do most things, that wasn't hard!

I was concerned last year as his ability seemed to fall away. It turned out he was bored and switched off. This year the school has been more pro active in challenging the brighter kids. His biggest problem is his fine motor skills as his writing can't match his thinking. I'm sure he'd love to dictate all his work!

[BlondieUK]

The article really hit the nail on the head when it said that children gifted in sports are celebrated and embraced. There is certainly not the case for the academic children at all. My academically advanced child has 2 left feet and butter fingers when it comes to sport. If he had sporting ability though no doubt he would be taken under someones wing and have that gift nurtured for sure. It just shows what we really value in this country and how it differs from the experience my MIL had with my DH growing up in the UK.

There are mechanisms and support for musically gifted children - but as Quill will know - these are usually only existent outside of the school structure. Private teachers, private classes - and it costs a fortune. The bigger government schools, or the music-oriented schools, have great programs, but they tend to only really kick in at secondary. There is a real dearth of top quality arts programs in Australian primary schools, and I a not sure that the ANC addresses this problem in any substantial way.

I wonder if, as a 'society', our tall poppy mentality is the reason why we have nothing in place to embrace and advance children further who are academically gifted.

Yes, yes, yes. I have worked as a teacher in Asia, and (while I fundamentally disagree with a national hot-housing system that places an insane amount of pressure on even very young children) education is the #1 priority for most families. Children who show any kinds of giftedness have those gifts nurtured and extended as far as families are able to.

I do wonder if it goes back to our modern roots as a 'poneering' nation - where hard work is about the 'hard yakka' physical work, and the wor of the brain is, in many ways, treated as suspicious or secondary. America (while having its own education issues) has managed to avoid this, and despite a profoundly problematic school system, certainly does - in theory - support gifted learning. They hav some of the best universities in the world.

At my school the children in the top stream were happy and did well, the children in the middle strean has some disruptive behaviour but not all the time so did ok, it was the children in the bottom stream that really suffered though as it was made up of the disruptive children, children who were well behaved but struggled with academic learning and children with disabilities, the children with behavioural issues made it nearly impossible for the children who wanted to learn. I tested around the 75th centile but as I am dyslexic I was put in the bottom stream. Streamed classes in the private system might work better though as they can expel the children with major behavioural issues.

Essentially streaming works for the kids in the top stream but you have to be willing to write off 1/3rd of kids to do it if we are talking about state schools, thankfully my DS is testing as above average (but not gifted) and free of learning disabilities right now so he would probably be ok in a streamed system.

I find this post quite disgusting. Any solution which 'writes off' 1/3 of children is unbelievably stupid an narrow minded. What on earth makes you think that profoundly gifted children cannot also be profoundly disabled? To use my son as an example - he tests with an IQ around 70, and is ASD/DHD and has sensory and behavioural issues (although some of these are resolving a bit). But - he also has perfect pitch, and the musical equivilant of a photographic memory. The child can sing a complete Beethoven symphony from beginning to end from memory, in the right key, and varies the parts (sometimes he sings the 'tune', and sometimes he sings inner string parts that even I struggle to hear). His giftedness in this area deserves support and extension, but getting past the other learning issues is incredibly difficult. Does he deserve extension any less than a child without a disability?

Gifted children, in my experience, often come with other 'issues' - whether they be social, emotional, behavioural, or in tandem with a learning difficulty. It's not as simple as shove all the bright kids in a classroom together and everything will be ok. Just like it's not as simple as shove all the 'bad' kids in a classroom together. It's far more complex than that and simplistic solutions such as streaming are so individual to any one school or context as to be almost useless as a general guideline.

R2 - are you living in Hampshire?

To be honest I don't know how best to deal with those issues in the bottom stream. I wish I did.

What I do know is that it is utterly wrong to make smart kids twiddle their thumbs while everyone else catches up. If it was only happening once in a while then it wouldn't be a problem. But when a child routinely gets everything the first time it is pure torture to sit through several more weeks of lessons showing the same thing in a variety of ways while everyone else gets it. Even when there is streaming there will be kids who have this problem. DD frequently comes home from year 8 rolling her eyes in exasperation at the fact that they are STILL doing x when she understood it two weeks ago.

Perhaps the answer is larger schools where there is scope for streaming and delineation within those streams for kids with behavioural issues. I'm sure that comes with it's own set of problems though.

One of the answers is that teachers should not be teaching in 'class sets' - there needs to be genuine extension work ready to go with any activity/unit. It's something where inquiry based learning has a lot to offer - set children an open ended problem (ie a problem with several/many solutions). It gets them to think laterally, but also to apply the knowledge they have in new and exiting ways.

We are also working on note reading but I had considered beginning ameb theory, especially with the course now online in the early grades, not sure yet, her workload is fairly full for next year already.

I am spending my Xmas holidays writing a new curriculum for Years 6-9 Music for my new job starting Jan 7th. I can't find a link that does AMEB theory online - can someone paste it here, please?

[sparkler]

I find this post quite disgusting. Any solution which 'writes off' 1/3 of children is unbelievably stupid an narrow minded. What on earth makes you think that profoundly gifted children cannot also be profoundly disabled? To use my son as an example - he tests with an IQ around 70, and is ASD/DHD and has sensory and behavioural issues (although some of these are resolving a bit). But - he also has perfect pitch, and the musical equivilant of a photographic memory. The child can sing a complete Beethoven symphony from beginning to end from memory, in the right key, and varies the parts (sometimes he sings the 'tune', and sometimes he sings inner string parts that even I struggle to hear). His giftedness in this area deserves support and extension, but getting past the other learning issues is incredibly difficult. Does he deserve extension any less than a child without a disability?

Gifted children, in my experience, often come with other 'issues' - whether they be social, emotional, behavioural, or in tandem with a learning difficulty. It's not as simple as shove all the bright kids in a classroom together and everything will be ok. Just like it's not as simple as shove all the 'bad' kids in a classroom together. It's far more complex than that and simplistic solutions such as streaming are so individual to any one school or context as to be almost useless as a general guideline.

Did you miss the part where I mentioned that I was in the bottom stream? Or the part where I mentioned that I tested as bright but as I had a learning disability I was put in the bottom stream for everything? It was my experience that yes the kids in the bottom stream where written off by the teachers and the education system, it was a case of 80% behaviour management and 20% learning. I am well aware that children can be twice exceptional and since I have a child who has gone from GDD to above average I also know what kids can do with the right support, which is why we need a system that supports all children.

I might have a learning disability but at least I don't go around declaring people's posts are disgusting for no good reason!

[BlondieUK]

Sorry - bad wording - the concept in the post. And collective 'you'.

Streaming can work - but it takes quality teaching, and you don't have to write of 1/3rd of children to do it.

This post has been edited by BlondieUK: 23/12/2012, 07:43 PM

[leisamd]

BlondieUK, try this link http://www.amebtheory.edu.au



This post has been edited by leisamd: 23/12/2012, 07:45 PM

[kadoodle]

His biggest problem is his fine motor skills as his writing can't match his thinking. I'm sure he'd love to dictate all his work!

Teach him to type. In trying to keep up with my brain, my handwriting looked like a spider had climbed out of the inkwell and had an epileptic fit on the page. 90wpm on Mum's clunky old typewriter felt like magic.

Sparkler - I think Blondie was inferring that writing children off was disgusting, not that your post or you were. FWIW, I think that giving up on children is disgusting, abhorrant and just sodding lazy. But when you spend 80% of your classtime dealing with behavioural stuff, I imagine it would be easy to lose focus. A great many of my teachers in high school were just childminders trying to stop riots rather than educators engaging us in learning.

[BlondieUK]

That is what I meant, sorry, sparkle. Supervising children watching Tree Fu Tom and jumping around the living room as I type.

[sparkler]

Sorry - bad wording - the concept in the post. And collective 'you'.

Streaming can work - but it takes quality teaching, and you don't have to write of 1/3rd of children to do it.

That's cool,

I think the worst thing was that those of us in the bottom stream were only allowed to sit a maths GSCE exam that allowed us to get a D at most, so even if you had the ability to pass you couldn't because you were a bottom stream kid and therefore not eligible.

I got a D, can you tell I am still p*ssed lol.

Sorry for the derail OP.

[=R2=]

I’d love to hear her, if you have any clips. No pressure – I’m not interested in critique – just is always interesting to hear young musicians developing. All the very best – Howdo is another with musical children.

Sending you a YouTube clip as we speak. Her strength is piano though. Would love your critique actually. Thanks!

R2 - are you living in Hampshire?

DH is Hampshire born and bred but we live in Australia . We were there for Christmas last year.

[GaugeousBosons]

Hi R2

I've sent you some feedback.





This post has been edited by Quill: 26/12/2012, 04:37 PM