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Gifted & Talented Primary Years #25


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#1 Therese

Posted 04 June 2012 - 12:09 PM

New thread time original.gif

Your last thread is Here

I do apologise for the length of your last thread.  This forum doesn't have a moderator at the moment so please pm a moderator or member of the admin team and let us know if we miss anything or if you would like a new thread started original.gif

#2 eboyd

Posted 04 June 2012 - 05:21 PM

HI Everyone,

I posted this in the previous thread but have posted it here as well just in case people dont see it. Thanks

I am new here and not sure that I belong yet. We are getting our DS1 (6) grade 1 in Vic tested next week, unfortunately we started the ball rolling through the school before I had read up on this forum, it seems that getting tested through the school might not be the best thing however at the moment due to finances being a bit tight it is our only option.

We are not even completely sure that our DS is gifted, he is at the top of his class, has been doing the year ahead maths and still finding it too easy, the school is not sure about giving him harder stuff yet (not sure why). Not sure what his reading lvl is as even though he is doing the lvl 25 PM Plus readers he finds these too easy as well and is reading way beyond that at home.

He was really good at doing puzzles from an early age doing the 48 piece by himself by 2 1/2 and the 100 piece with help by 3. His memory is amazing, recalling things that have happened ages ago. He LOVES documentaries and gets really terrified at any movies that are slightly "scary".

He is very sensitive to others emotions and gets upset if others are hurt (esp family). We have fairly aggressive outbursts every couple of months where he will punch the wall, kick things at the wall etc.

The form the school gave us to fill out asked all sorts of developmental questions that I just couldn't answer. We moved back to Australia from NZ two years ago and I think that the books that I have the info in must be still packed over there. How important is it to be able to give them ages of when he talked, crawled etc? I just can not remember them at all. The only one I remember accurately is his walking age.

Sorry for the long post, thank you if you got this far, and you all seem like really lovely helpful and encouraging parents so thank you for that too.

Emma

#3 mum850

Posted 04 June 2012 - 05:27 PM

Welcome EMma!!
Physical milestones are not important at all so don't' worry. It sounds like it's a great idea that he is being tested. I hope you will come and tell us the results when you get them.

Silver. No moderator!! So we can do whatever we like!!!  biggrin.gif

#4 baddmammajamma

Posted 04 June 2012 - 05:29 PM

I'm going to give myself a raise! wink.gif

Welcome, Emma! I agree with mum850. Unless there is something really unusual (started speaking at 3 months...or didn't speak until age 3), the exact age of hitting milestones is not that relevant.

Hope you are able to get some answers and support from the school that will help you help your son.

#5 katrina24

Posted 04 June 2012 - 11:09 PM

Hi Emma, your son sounds a lot like my daughter - she doesn't have the aggressive outbursts but I think she has the girly version - melodramatic meltdowns on occasion.  Good luck with the testing, I hope it is a smooth process.  We are booked in next week too.  I agree with the others about milestones - they are only looking for a general history with any unusually early or late milestones indicated.

#6 eboyd

Posted 06 June 2012 - 12:44 PM

Thanks for your responses. Sorry I haven't been back on in a couple of days have major teeth drama and in lots of pain at the moment.

Our DS had an online comprehension test yesterday for grade 3 (he is currently grade one) not sure what the results are yet but his teacher has said if he blitzed it they will do the grade four one and just keep going until he struggles. Not sure what this will achieve though.

Looking forward to the Gand T testing next week though.

Emma

#7 katrina24

Posted 06 June 2012 - 06:46 PM

Hi, I'm just after any insights or advice re: WISC IV vs WPPSI.

The psychologist who will be assessing DD uses either of these tests.  DD will be 6 1/2 so at the upper end of the WPPSI but at the beginning of the WISC.  When I told the psyc about DD she indicated that she would lean towards the WISC as she will likely ceiling out of the WPPSI, particularly in the verbal subtests.  However, DD has a tendency to be a perfectionist and a little anxious.  I'm worried that, with the WISC, she will come across harder items much quicker and may freak out a little if she senses she is getting them wrong.  I'm particularly concerned about the non verbal scales here as I think it will be relatively weaker than verbal.

Any thoughts?  I know the stanford binet is often recommended for G and T testing but it's not an option and I'm not sure DD will be scoring high enough to worry about those really high %ile score differences.

I'm happy to trust the psychologist in the end but on the other hand would like to give her my opinion to help in the decision making process (she will take on board my opinion).

Thanks,

#8 4joys

Posted 06 June 2012 - 08:29 PM

Hi Katrina24 -

I am sure that someone will correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to remember reading something about this when we had our DS tested. I believe that the WPPSI was never designed to test giftedness. From memory, its good to test if you are gifted or not, but as you indicated not the levels of giftedness. So I believe that means that many gifted children max out the subtests leading to scores that need to be "interpreted with caution" (that is a quote from DS's test).

My DS sounds similar to your DD (perfectionist, anxious, unwilling to "give things a go"). The Psych who did his test specialised in gifted kids, and said that she sees that stuff all the time. She was great with him, and really helped with his anxieties. My DS maxed out verbal and had a relative weakness (although still well above average) in most of the coding stuff. It might be good for you to get the fuller picture that the WISC can give you, particularly if you don't want to be testing again in the near future. Our Psych recommended testing again at 6 (original one done at 4YO) due to the limitations of the WISC (which we didn't do) but we will be testing again this year,  and I am still undecided which test we will go with.

Hope that all makes sense!! Good luck with your decision, I look forward to hearing what you decide.

#9 katrina24

Posted 06 June 2012 - 10:32 PM

Thanks 4joys, I'll let you know

#10 katrina24

Posted 08 June 2012 - 09:06 PM

I've just had a long conversation with my daughter that I could only describe as "confessions of a highly able child".  As I've indicated here previously my DD has been having a few issues this year. She had an amazing FYOS but this year has gradually becoming more withdrawn and less happy. we've been trying to get to the bottom of it with limited luck, until today.

She explained to me that she feels different to all of the other year ones.  She said that she feels like she is "smarter" than all the other kids and that they tell her she is smarter than them.  She said she always knows all of the answers but doesn't put her hand up because she doesn't want anyone to know she knows the answers.  She said she will sometimes answer the year one questions but won't answer the year 2 questions because she doesn't want anyone to know she knows them.  She very reluctantly admitted that she is often bored in group time and when "people keep asking me easy questions all the time".  When I asked her what I or her teacher could do to make her feel better at school she said "make another one as smart as me".  I was (and am) absolutely blown away by all of this.  I had no idea she felt like this.  The reason she hasn't told anyone she is bored is because she really likes her teacher and doesn't want to upset her or get her in trouble. She also doesn't want to get in trouble herself or be seen to be even more different.  She said she doesn't want other kids to see her work because they talk about it to her.  She made me promise not to tell her class teacher any of this but has given her permission for me to tell the extension teacher (who is wonderful and understands DD well).

She goes to a GATEWAYS club and I asked her if that made her feel even more different. She said no because when she is there other kids know the answers too. She said that there are 2 kids who always know the answers and sometimes know even more than the teacher. She said she loves it because she's not different there. She thinks these two very bright boys are amazing and really admires them.

After she had spent 1/2hr telling me all of this she was so relieved and happy she was almost bubbling over. What a lot for a little girl to manage all by herself.  I've never told her she is smart, especially not that she is smarter than others. We do praise her efforts and tell her when she is doing well with something. We do tell her she is clever but in the same way that we all tell our kids they are clever, never that she is more clever than others. We put much more focus on trying your best and bing persistent as well as talking about different kids having different strengths and being good atbdifferent things at different times.  

This has cemented my decision to get her tested. The school are great and it is them who have identified her as. 'high flyer' but I think they need more objective information to plan for her.



#11 4joys

Posted 08 June 2012 - 09:46 PM

QUOTE (katrina24 @ 08/06/2012, 10:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
She explained to me that she feels different to all of the other year ones.  She said that she feels like she is "smarter" than all the other kids and that they tell her she is smarter than them.  She said she always knows all of the answers but doesn't put her hand up because she doesn't want anyone to know she knows the answers.  She said she will sometimes answer the year one questions but won't answer the year 2 questions because she doesn't want anyone to know she knows them.  She very reluctantly admitted that she is often bored in group time and when "people keep asking me easy questions all the time".  When I asked her what I or her teacher could do to make her feel better at school she said "make another one as smart as me".  I was (and am) absolutely blown away by all of this.  I had no idea she felt like this.  The reason she hasn't told anyone she is bored is because she really likes her teacher and doesn't want to upset her or get her in trouble. She also doesn't want to get in trouble herself or be seen to be even more different.


I had a very similar conversation with my DS in reception. Especially the highlighted part. So pleased for you and your DD that you got to chat about it. My DS said to me after our conversation like this "Thanks Mum, I feel so much lighter now".

My DS HATES rote learning. Hates it. Anytime he does a lot of it at school he comes him in a foul mood. When I finally get him to talk about his day, and we get to the bottom of it, he skips off a different kid too. Sometimes I feel sad for him that he feels he needs to carry that sort of stuff around. Good luck with the testing, it sounds like your instincts are spot on original.gif

edited for spelling..

Edited by 4joys, 08 June 2012 - 09:47 PM.


#12 eboyd

Posted 10 June 2012 - 10:03 AM

So our DS did a reading and comprehension test last week. He is in Grade 1 and tested as Grade 4, however his teacher says that his writing and spelling is more like on par or slightly higher than average for his age and could do with some work. Anyone else have a kid that loves reading and is really good at it but struggles a little with spelling and writing. Though I guess he isn't struggling lol just not sa strong, so it looks like he is struggling a little.

Good luck Katrina with your DD's testing this week. Hope you get the information you are looking for.

Will be back on after DS's testing to let you know how he went.

Still not entirely sure how we explain what he is going to be doing next week.

Thanks for all your help Ladies
Emma

#13 mum850

Posted 10 June 2012 - 11:59 AM

QUOTE (eboyd @ 10/06/2012, 10:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So our DS did a reading and comprehension test last week. He is in Grade 1 and tested as Grade 4, however his teacher says that his writing and spelling is more like on par or slightly higher than average for his age and could do with some work. Anyone else have a kid that loves reading and is really good at it but struggles a little with spelling and writing. Though I guess he isn't struggling lol just not sa strong, so it looks like he is struggling a little.

Good luck Katrina with your DD's testing this week. Hope you get the information you are looking for.

Will be back on after DS's testing to let you know how he went.

Still not entirely sure how we explain what he is going to be doing next week.

Thanks for all your help Ladies
Emma


Yep! All my kids read way earlier and better than they did with writing. My oldest was reading at 3 but didn't pick up a pen until 6 and his physical writing has always been way behind his reading. Spelling was a problem too, as he was a whole word reader and did't have any phonics strategies to help him with spelling. WHen I heard about visual spatial learning, I used some of those ideas and his spelling is now fine. Writing... still a huge problem!

#14 mamaknits

Posted 10 June 2012 - 07:58 PM

Emma, I have child like that. He reads well above his age level (FYOS this year but reading Roald Dahl and Beast Quest books on his own since last year) but his writing is probably just early yr 1 level. he does not struggle with spelling. He spells quite well for his age but sometimes struggles with words that sound alike. Once they are pointed out he rarely makes mistakes with them again. We have been given "make sentences with sight words" homework with yr 1 sightwords. The words themselves are not a challenge, but he, being lazy, tries to cram them all into one or two sentences and still have the sentences make sense. It's helped him work on punctuation, capitalisation and sentence structure. Also, although they don't use lined paper at school, I get him to do his homework on lined paper and that has helped with handwriting. Which aspects of writing does your child struggle with? Perhaps it is worth having a chat with the teacher to see how you can help support them help him with writing.

#15 katrina24

Posted 10 June 2012 - 10:01 PM

Hi Emma, dd is much better with reading than writing. Her spelling is good but not as good as reading. Even though the teacher said her writing is not near her reading, she writes a lot more at home when she is interested in something than when she is at school.  Her teacher was surprised to see some writing she did at home recently (independently). I don't think she could be bothered writing at school and doesn't see why she should write more than the other kids.

#16 eboyd

Posted 13 June 2012 - 07:51 AM

I think it's more the creative writing part. He is like me and as soon as he has to make stuff up he just shuts his brain off. he is okay at the actual sentence structure (I think anyway) but just loses his concentration so when others have done two pages he has done one. They only started giving spelling tests this year so we really hadn't worked on it till then. I think also it is because he is so fabulous at reading it makes his spelling look not so good where as if he was at year lvl for his reading his spelling would be fine.

Testing is this morning. I had a quick conversation with the counsellor that is doing it and convinced her to do the WISC instead of the other one WiSII (or whatever it is called). Hope it goes well

Will come back later and update



#17 eboyd

Posted 16 June 2012 - 10:20 AM

So my DS had his testing done on Wednesday. They did the WISC so I am happy with that. We will get the full report in a couple of weeks I guess. The psych was able to give us a heads up though on how he did which is good as I don't think I could have waited two+ weeks to find out.

He scored very highly in one aspect 99.7 percentile though cant remember which one that was. 96 percentile in another 91 percentile in another and then not sure of the percentile but she said a low average on his processing!! She said that if his processing had been better he def would have been in the gifted range but that because of his processing score he was JUST outside of it. She did say that there is a different score she can give us that is just made up of the ones he did well in??? and that processing is def something we can work on.

Am looking forward to sitting down with her and going through the report, and then sitting down with the school and figuring out where we go from here.

Oh and his teacher is still not convinced that he is awesome at Maths, I really think that he is just coasting there and happy to original.gif He is doing one year ahead with Maths in his class but then so are a couple of others as well, they are just not all that sure about pushing him any further.

Hope you all are having a great weekend.

Emma

#18 baddmammajamma

Posted 16 June 2012 - 10:42 AM

Emma, have them calculate and provide you with the GAI (General Ability index) which is based only on two subsets of the WISC (Verbal Comprehension Index and the Perceptual Reasoning Index). That is likely what the psychologist meant.

It does not include the Processing Speed.

As a related aside, it is not uncommon for kids with learning disabilities, attention issues, or issues like ASD to have low processing speeds. The GAI can provide a good indication of overall intellectual ability.


#19 eboyd

Posted 16 June 2012 - 12:42 PM

Thanks for your post BMJ. Pretty sure it was the GAI that she mentioned actually, so glad to know that it is an actual thing original.gif She went through the results so quickly that I couldn't remember the names of all the subsets she mentioned but I am pretty sure that the ones you mentioned for the GAI are the two he excelled at.

Got to run, my sister is here for lunch.

Emma

#20 4joys

Posted 19 June 2012 - 09:42 AM

Morning all!

How is everyone doing?

I just wanted to come in and share some positive news. My DSs school has decided to grade skip him as at the end of this term. We had a meeting with the principle, the learning develop teacher, and his teachers yesterday that went really well. Quite funny really as I was given the impression that the principle was going to object on "social" grounds after a few comments that he made to me late last week. So DH and I spent the weekend furiously researching and were really well armed with articles \ etc (If anyone would like some links to some great articles, please let me know!).

As it turns out, after reading all DS's reports and speaking to his teachers his position is that it would do him more harm not to advance than the possible downsides would bring. He also said that we can only make decisions based on what information that we have in this moment, not based on what might happen in the future (also said that these were considerations, but our considerations rather than theirs if that makes sense). It should be fairly seamless too as he is currently in a 2/3 composite, so will be classed as a grade 3 from next term, but nothing will change for him. Which I think is great. His teachers also said that he is a delight, and that his work is perfect and always the easiest to mark!! Yay!!

Thanks for listening! Its really nice to share some positive news. original.gif

have a nice day.


#21 mum850

Posted 19 June 2012 - 07:20 PM

Hey 4joys, that's really great news., congratulations!

#22 katrina24

Posted 19 June 2012 - 09:01 PM

That is lovely news 4joys. I would love to see the links you mentioned. They may be relevant to DD but I've become very interested in all of this.

#23 *bucket*

Posted 20 June 2012 - 05:08 PM

Fantastic news 4joys. I wish we could do that for DS. I would love the article links as accelerating or not is going to be my main focus for the next month or two.

#24 kabailz13

Posted 20 June 2012 - 06:51 PM

Hi all! It's been a long time since I've been in here and I'm back seeking some advice - twofold as well.

Firstly, our DD1 who is 10yrs old is gifted in her matrix reasoning (Raven's) and on that, was invited to participate in PEAC (primary extension and challenge in WA). As part of the testing we had done in December 2011, it was picked up that it looks likely that she has ADHD-I and/or ASD. We moved and had a change of school for the kids this year so we decided to give her a term to settle back in (kids were at this school 2yrs previous) before moving on with the next round of testing.

So, we have a meeting scheduled for Tuesday with the school psych and also deputy principal who is the G&T co-ordinator for the school (our DD is the only PEAC student at the school so her job for that is pretty limited). I'm thinking that we'll take in the report from the testing we had done end of last year which details her strengths and weaknesses as well as outlining some strategies the school can use. DD's biggest hurdle is that her listening comprehension is severely lacking (tested at an age of 6yrs 4mths when she was 10yrs 2mths) and it is this severe deficit that we are trying to remedy initially.

Does anyone have any advice for me on how to go about this? We've never had to have a meeting with staff before, simply conversations after or before school have been the norm for us so far and I'm really at a loss for what to do. Should I ask this in the kids with disabilities forum instead?


Secondly.... our DS6 is in year 1. He started off the year in a split yr 1/2 class with the aim for him to complete year 2 (principal placed him in this class specifically) however the school has since lost a teacher and his class is now a prep/1 class. His teacher seems extremely reluctant to offer him extension work. I will say now that we have not yet had DS assessed however at the end of last year (5yrs 10mths) he was assessed as having a reading age of 9.5yrs and his spelling is at the same level as is his comprehension. His handwriting however is slightly behind (improved tenfold from where it was prior to OT intervention). I find that his teacher seems to think that until his writing improves that he is not 'entitled' to more difficult work. To explain, he brings home spelling homework each week with words such as: List five - have, as, this, look. This is the kid who wasn't reading at all at the start of last year and finished all of the sight word lists by halfway through the year (spelling and reading).

On the way home yesterday, I spoke with him about school and he told me he likes it all being easy even though it's boring but it means he doesn't have to think about it  sad.gif    rant.gif This is exactly what I'm trying to avoid! So, last night he did spelling however we gave him words to spell (machine, library, learning, bulldozer, dinosaur plus plenty more) and he got almost all of them right - he made a couple of silly mistakes. So, I spoke with his teacher this morning about giving him harder work at school and for home and she mentioned that he likes showing the other kids what to do and stuff like that.... she also mentioned that "James has issues". (aside from his handwriting, we are unaware of any issues at school and she did not expand).

I am so sad for my little boy! He is so able but he hides it so that he doesn't have to help the other kids and so he is the 'same' as them. What do I do?

We have lots of resources at home for extension but he is just so bored at school and his teacher is absolutely set on him being 'one of the many' which is great socially but just doesn't challenge him at all mentally. We have a very busy home life with both myself and DH studying full time so we don't really have all that much time for at home extension - he needs that at school so he can learn how to deal with challenges!

#25 bluemonkey

Posted 21 June 2012 - 01:10 PM

A couple of interesting links from the Victorian parliamentary enquiry:

Article in The Age:
http://www.theage.com.au/national/educatio...0620-20ogw.html

And link to the actual report:
http://www.parliament.vic.gov.au/images/st...inal_Report.pdf

Edited by bluemonkey, 21 June 2012 - 01:11 PM.





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