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TOUGH LOVE: Budget targets single parents to save $700m


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#251 Gangnam Style

Posted 05 May 2012 - 04:51 PM

QUOTE (ChunkyChook @ 05/05/2012, 04:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Just the same as a mum with a newborn, 2yo twins and a 4yo go to pick up the eldest child from school or kinder. Or was it a trick question?


Is it the same? When you pay a carer to look after your child in their home, you don't expect your child to then have to traipse all over town morning and afternoon to collect other children (along with four other paying children). And surely there are insurance issues?


Edited by Put lipstick on it, 05 May 2012 - 04:52 PM.


#252 Mrs.Brown

Posted 05 May 2012 - 04:55 PM

QUOTE (Put lipstick on it @ 05/05/2012, 02:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Is it the same? When you pay a carer to look after your child in their home, you don't expect your child to then have to traipse all over town morning and afternoon to collect other children (along with four other paying children). And surely there are insurance issues?


I never had a problem with it. As long as car restraints were used, whats the issue? There already seems to be a shortage of day care places from EB posts, and yet if there are places there are going to be p*ssed off parents because their child may need to go with their carer to pick up another child from school. Far out!
If you need to work, and need a FDC place but wont use it because the carer needs to pick up another child up from their school, I find this rather strange.

And also PLOI, do you ever transport your children's friends in you car? You are not a family day care, but there is a risk whenever anyone gets in a car. Wether it is you or a FDC, getting behind the wheel is a risk everyday.

Chunkychook, Im still in the process of scanning some documents for you about registering for a small business. Will get them to you soon original.gif

Edited by Icehouse, 05 May 2012 - 05:04 PM.


#253 ChunkyChook

Posted 05 May 2012 - 04:59 PM

QUOTE (Put lipstick on it @ 05/05/2012, 04:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Is it the same? When you pay a carer to look after your child in their home, you don't expect your child to then have to traipse all over town morning and afternoon to collect other children (along with four other paying children). And surely there are insurance issues?


Well actually they pay for the children to have an experience that is as close to a home environment and experience as possible. If they wanted them locked in a centre where they never left the environment then they would book them into a centre.

Sure I need public liability insurance, a roadworthy car with professionally fitted car seats and a first aid kit and emergency contact info with me at all time but most parents love the fact you can goto the park or on excursions and outtings. Hell some of these parents even use you for their kinder/school drop offs and pick ups because their work hours dont suit kinder/school hours.

All parents are informed of all routine outing and sign a form specifically for this with the rest of their enrollment forms.

9 out of 10 carers do school/kinder pick ups and drop offs around here so if you didnt want your children doing these you need to book a centre.



#254 Heather11

Posted 05 May 2012 - 05:07 PM

QUOTE
Is it the same? When you pay a carer to look after your child in their home, you don't expect your child to then have to traipse all over town morning and afternoon to collect other children (along with four other paying children). And surely there are insurance issues?


I thought that was just a part of the being in family day care.  All the family day carers that I know do drop offs  and pickups at schools and kindy of other children in their care and bring along the younger children with them.

#255 sandy_1985

Posted 05 May 2012 - 05:11 PM

My D/C lady takes the children in her car (which had to be inspected first). I don't mind, he gets to go for a drive and loves it.

#256 Expelliarmus

Posted 05 May 2012 - 05:14 PM

My sister always did kindy and school drop offs and pick ups with her FDC kids in tow. That was part of the reason she was booked. She picked up FDC kids' siblings when she picked up her own.

One pair of girls she had from pre school til they were in high school basically - and once they were in high school, and my sister had finished FCDing due to the increased programming etc required, they'd drop in on the way home just to hang out for an hour before they went home to an empty house!

#257 Gangnam Style

Posted 05 May 2012 - 05:34 PM

Well there you go, shrug.gif  in the two years I used FDC, none of the three carers my DS had ever did school drops. Who knew?  


#258 tidey2

Posted 05 May 2012 - 06:23 PM

QUOTE (ChunkyChook @ 05/05/2012, 04:37 PM)
14550611[/url]']
What do you mean? She has actually contacted one of you in the last 36 hours telling you she expects your DH to make up the difference?


Yes because 12 years after divorce when my husband speaks to his children she insists on speaking to him on a daily basis. However that is a whole other story. She doesn't waste anytime trying to get more money out him.
I'm not saying all mothers are like this one. I'm just curious how many mothers are screaming that the fathers should take more responsibility but don't actually want it to happen as it affects their income.

#259 Lees75

Posted 05 May 2012 - 06:52 PM

You know what frustrates me the most with threads like this? The emergence of the stereotypes, assumptions, undercurrent of "anti-single-parent-ness" and sometimes just pure vitriole (although that is mostly on the comments sections on the online  newspapers).

Look back through this thread- most of us single parents support the changes but are just concerned re some of the difficulties that those who are affected will face such as child care etc. And then look at those on here who will be affected- they are already studying, working etc. But are still looking at a significant reduction in income in 14 months time.







#260 -Emissary-

Posted 05 May 2012 - 07:05 PM

QUOTE (Icehouse @ 05/05/2012, 12:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Can I ask how does that affect you tax wise? I always thought that the 2nd, 3rd and so on jobs attracted a much highter tax rate.



QUOTE (Icehouse @ 05/05/2012, 01:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ok. Thanks ashleerose and howdo. Maybe that is something else the govt can look at. With the tightening up, parents may need to do 2 or more casual jobs and paying more tax on the subsequent jobs isnt really fair. However, the increase in the tax free threshold may help there hopefully.


Actually, no. It's already fair.

While PAYG withholding is higher on the 2nd + jobs, that is to ensure YOU actually prepay enough tax to cover your overall tax liability at the end of the financial year.

Therefore, you're not technically taxed any higher than you should be. It's just your 2nd and third income needs to be regarded as additional income on top of your first job and therefore to cover the taxes, PAYG withholding needs to be higher.

At the end of the financial year, your tax liability between the jobs (eg. Job A $20k, Job B $25k) should not be any different if you were just working one job (eg. Job A $45k).

I personally don't think tax is the issue here. Maybe the cost of childcare and workforce flexibility to enable a parent to work just one job so their cash flow - basically essentially, that is the problem with having two jobs and being taxed at a much higher rate for the 2nd job and getting it back after you've submitted your tax return.

QUOTE (Lees75 @ 05/05/2012, 06:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You know what frustrates me the most with threads like this? The emergence of the stereotypes, assumptions, undercurrent of "anti-single-parent-ness" and sometimes just pure vitriole (although that is mostly on the comments sections on the online  newspapers).

Look back through this thread- most of us single parents support the changes but are just concerned re some of the difficulties that those who are affected will face such as child care etc. And then look at those on here who will be affected- they are already studying, working etc. But are still looking at a significant reduction in income in 14 months time.


Yep.

And apparently we're the one turning it into one of "those threads".  rolleyes.gif

Edited by -Emissary-, 05 May 2012 - 07:09 PM.


#261 ephalant

Posted 05 May 2012 - 07:07 PM

QUOTE (Lees75 @ 05/05/2012, 06:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You know what frustrates me the most with threads like this? The emergence of the stereotypes, assumptions, undercurrent of "anti-single-parent-ness" and sometimes just pure vitriole (although that is mostly on the comments sections on the online  newspapers).

Look back through this thread- most of us single parents support the changes but are just concerned re some of the difficulties that those who are affected will face such as child care etc. And then look at those on here who will be affected- they are already studying, working etc. But are still looking at a significant reduction in income in 14 months time.


Completely agree.

Tidey2, I don't know anyone like that, thankfully.  Most single parents I know would just be happy to receive cs at all or an amount that reflects the income they actually earn or even for that parent to be more physically present in their children's lives.  I know I've got almost no chance of getting any cs from my ex, who believes that because I have the care, I have the expenses.

#262 -Emissary-

Posted 05 May 2012 - 07:17 PM

QUOTE (tidey2 @ 05/05/2012, 06:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yes because 12 years after divorce when my husband speaks to his children she insists on speaking to him on a daily basis. However that is a whole other story. She doesn't waste anytime trying to get more money out him.
I'm not saying all mothers are like this one. I'm just curious how many mothers are screaming that the fathers should take more responsibility but don't actually want it to happen as it affects their income.


You know one mother like that.

I know four who wants the fathers of their children to step up. Me included. I think my statistic trumps yours.  wink.gif

Affect my income? I won't miss the measly $350 he pays. In fact, I'll pay HIM $350 to take DS more.  mad.gif

If I am forced to drop to part time because I have no support, my loss in income is 5 times greater than the child support amount he pays me. How is that fair again?

I actually do believe that a lot of single mothers would love the fathers of their children to step up and take on more responsibility and find a balance that would suit their children. However, these mothers are usually the ones that are working full time and juggling everything at once. The focus in these threads are always on the single mothers who are apparently dole buldgers. No one ever wants to discuss the blatant inequality in our society towards the parenting roles of fathers and mothers and how it affects a single mother.

So the answer to your question? how many mothers just say they want the fathers of their kids to step up but really don't want it due to losing a few bucks in child support? Not many when we consider ALL single mothers.  




Edited by -Emissary-, 05 May 2012 - 07:23 PM.


#263 I'm Batman

Posted 05 May 2012 - 07:29 PM

QUOTE
You shouldn't be - the reason it was done this way is so that those who knew the impact that it would have had - those already in the system - were silenced by being grandfathered and told not to rock the boat, they weren't going to be affected and the belief was this situation would remain until they or their children exited the system.


I can see how thats the case. People do need to understand that no policy is safe as governments come and go. Especially when the idea that someone could stay out of work until their youngest is 16 is not inline with community expectations. Returning to work once your children are school aged is now the norm. As a social policy having people staying out of work when they are capable for 8-16 years was probably never going to have the legs to stay for the next 8 years and impacts them and society in multiple ways.


#264 FeralMama1

Posted 05 May 2012 - 08:34 PM

[quote name='Lees75' date='05/05/2012, 06:52 PM' post='14550923']
You know what frustrates me the most with threads like this? The emergence of the stereotypes, assumptions, undercurrent of "anti-single-parent-ness" and sometimes just pure vitriole (although that is mostly on the comments sections on the online  newspapers).

Look back through this thread- most of us single parents support the changes but are just concerned re some of the difficulties that those who are affected will face such as child care etc. And then look at those on here who will be affected- they are already studying, working etc. But are still looking at a significant reduction in income in 14 months time.


Well said! I am a single parent currently on a grandfathered payment and am studying 32+ hours per week. My child turns 8 next year and I will be losing a significant amount having to swap over to newstart or austudy. I also receive no child support due to an exemption over family violence issues. This is going to hit my child and I hard. I don't want to give up my study but how are we supposed to cope with such a reduction in payment? How do I automatically find an employer that will provide me with the flexibility I will need for my pracs etc? I will be in my third year of a four year tertiary degree when the change takes place. Yes, I am meeting my requirements but that is not the issue. It is just forcing some single parents further into poverty.

#265 Gangnam Style

Posted 05 May 2012 - 08:56 PM

QUOTE (Lees75 @ 05/05/2012, 06:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You know what frustrates me the most with threads like this? The emergence of the stereotypes, assumptions, undercurrent of "anti-single-parent-ness" and sometimes just pure vitriole (although that is mostly on the comments sections on the online  newspapers).

Look back through this thread- most of us single parents support the changes but are just concerned re some of the difficulties that those who are affected will face such as child care etc. And then look at those on here who will be affected- they are already studying, working etc. But are still looking at a significant reduction in income in 14 months time.


cclap.gif  Woot.  biggrin.gif



#266 Lightning_bug

Posted 05 May 2012 - 09:44 PM

QUOTE (littlej @ 04/05/2012, 09:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yes, but surely you can see that the logistics are different for single parent families? In two parent families there are two parents to juggle caring for the kids before and after school/during holidays. Sinlge parents are already stretched in that regard.


Even in dual families logistics don't suddenly become easier.  Wtih two parents there's always one to care and pick up the kids after school?  Really?  Two working parents full-time usually work the same hours.  It does make it easier financially however logistically it's not easier.

I do agree the new theory is unrealistic when it comes to care and should supplement for unpaid work days due to a child's illness.  But from my understanding middle-class welfare will make vacation care cheap and affordable.

QUOTE (-Emissary- @ 04/05/2012, 10:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Why are we just talking about the mothers? Where's the fathers in all this.


Most definately.  Maybe they should make custody 50/50...  

Employers make assumptions, coupled or not, that the 'man' will work and the woman will stay with the kids.  It'll take time to change that assumption and to some degree it's getting there but such drastic changes don't happen overnight.  Perhaps this will further change that attitude with more women entering the workforce

Not to mention there are single fathers.  But they're such a small minority no one gives a damn about them.

A man I work with is a single father with two girls 6 and 8 and works full-time with an absent mother.  How does he make it work?  It's incredibly hard but he does it.  he moved into a smaller place close to the kid's schools.  He gave him his 'career' aspirations and study and just got a job.  And the job isn't flexible.  He works 9 to 5.  But he worked the system.  He reached out for support and found it through other parents and centrelink and so fourth.

There are resources out there, for everyone.  It's not at all easy but it's not completely impossible.

QUOTE (Lees75 @ 05/05/2012, 06:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Look back through this thread- most of us single parents support the changes but are just concerned re some of the difficulties that those who are affected will face such as child care etc. And then look at those on here who will be affected- they are already studying, working etc. But are still looking at a significant reduction in income in 14 months time.


Lees, I think you're right.  But at times resisting an excuse given (I can't find child care, I can't find a job...) isn't anti-single-parentness.  It's a response which would be given to anyone placing hurdles before themselves before they've begun.  Before they've even looked.  Particularly when those hurdles are not only ones they face but everyone faces and deals with because they have to.  Finding child care is as hard for a couple as it is for a single.  Finding a job is as hard for a couple as it is for a single.  

The only significant difference is the financial situation however couples aren't instantly 'well-off', particularly if you consider those affected on the PPP have such as small family income that they qualify for the benefit.

Personally, I think this has been coming for a long time.  And it's come because there are some parents (both single and coupled - because it targets both) who have lived on benefits for years.  Rather than it's intention which was to help until they found their own feet it became a lifestyle.  Not an easy one but one none-the-less.

All other pensions have requirements and cut-offs if those requirements aren't met.  Why not this one?  Why should it go on indefinately?

I don't particularly like the form its taken and I believe it should have more flexibility (such as compensation for sick days employers won't pay for for the children) and a newstart which isn't the same as the 'single rate' perhaps a single with dependants rate which allows a much higher threshhold of earnings before it decreases.  I also believe it should begin when a child is at least the legal age to stay home alone given that it would allow more income to be freed and not be spent on after-school care.  

I think it has to change but that the Government has rushed at this without enough forethought and planning.

Edited by Lightning_bug, 05 May 2012 - 09:51 PM.


#267 Lees75

Posted 05 May 2012 - 09:57 PM

Lightening bug, I am hesitant to say it, but I agree with you tongue.gif

Edited by Lees75, 05 May 2012 - 10:00 PM.


#268 Feral-Lausii

Posted 05 May 2012 - 10:04 PM

QUOTE
I don't particularly like the form its taken and I believe it should have more flexibility (such as compensation for sick days employers won't pay for for the children) and a newstart which isn't the same as the 'single rate' perhaps a single with dependants rate which allows a much higher threshhold of earnings before it decreases. I also believe it should begin when a child is at least the legal age to stay home alone given that it would allow more income to be freed and not be spent on after-school care.


Yes. Exactly what I was thinking. I am no longer a single parent. But when I was and worked casually, the PPS was always there to fall back on if I had to have a day off due to the kids or illness. I am just thankful I am no longer on any PP and don't need to worry about this. I do hope though they think this through a little more.

#269 Lightning_bug

Posted 05 May 2012 - 10:11 PM

QUOTE (Lees75 @ 05/05/2012, 09:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Lightening bug, I am hesitant to say it, but I agree with you tongue.gif


blush.gif

#270 -Emissary-

Posted 06 May 2012 - 12:30 AM

QUOTE (Lightning_bug @ 05/05/2012, 09:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Most definately.  Maybe they should make custody 50/50...  

Employers make assumptions, coupled or not, that the 'man' will work and the woman will stay with the kids.  It'll take time to change that assumption and to some degree it's getting there but such drastic changes don't happen overnight.  Perhaps this will further change that attitude with more women entering the workforce

Not to mention there are single fathers.  But they're such a small minority no one gives a damn about them.

A man I work with is a single father with two girls 6 and 8 and works full-time with an absent mother.  How does he make it work?  It's incredibly hard but he does it.  he moved into a smaller place close to the kid's schools.  He gave him his 'career' aspirations and study and just got a job.  And the job isn't flexible.  He works 9 to 5.  But he worked the system.  He reached out for support and found it through other parents and centrelink and so fourth.

There are resources out there, for everyone.  It's not at all easy but it's not completely impossible.


I agree. Gender inequality is a problem in both single parents and dual-parents families.

If we refuse to accept that a woman cannot return to work because she has children, then why do we have to accept that a father cannot take on more care of his children because he has to work? Why does it always fall on the mother to organise care?

This very issue is a problem for both fathers and mothers. Men find it hard to get time off work to care for their children because it isn't deemed to be their responsibility and women find it hard to return to work because it is deemed their responsibility to care for their children.

That attitude is rife on EB and it really baffles me and I do hope that in time, that attitude will be changed as more women enter the workforce and forces the inequality to be addressed.




#271 Lightning_bug

Posted 06 May 2012 - 12:51 AM

QUOTE (-Emissary- @ 06/05/2012, 12:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If we refuse to accept that a woman cannot return to work because she has children, then why do we have to accept that a father cannot take on more care of his children because he has to work? Why does it always fall on the mother to organise care?


I believe it's something we can believe in theory but, generally, we still have a society which has the attitude 'a kid should be with its mother' and all other aspects of the way society is designed is to accomodate this belief.

I've seen some amazing accomodations in my particular workplace compared to other places and I do believe this attitude is changing.  However having a husband denied leave while I was having a baby because 'it wasn't in the businesses best interest' and lose hours dramatically after calling in sick a few times to care for kids... it hasn't changed enough.

In single-family situations I believe the attitude is that the primary carer has to take on the responsibility to organise care and not along the lines of gender.  A father with full care would be expected to take responsibility as equally as a mother would.  No doubt if it were a 50/50 custody situation it would be seen that the father would have to organise care during their time and the mother during hers.

Edited by Lightning_bug, 06 May 2012 - 12:53 AM.


#272 ashleerose

Posted 11 May 2012 - 08:12 PM

Just been doing some research on this and thought id share some links:

http://singlemum.com.au/features/single-pa...ason-bryce.html

http://www.singlemotherforum.com/viewtopic...mp;t=2035#p9414

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-a...a-1226351404890

http://www.westernadvocate.com.au/news/loc...ts/2548605.aspx

I thought by sharing these links those that were confused, or simply did not understand the situation for what it is or will be can now have a insight into the situation.

#273 ashleerose

Posted 12 May 2012 - 06:06 PM

A more positive informative outlook:

http://www.deewr.gov.au/Employment/JSA/Job...entsCarers.aspx

#274 ashleerose

Posted 12 May 2012 - 06:47 PM

More info:

http://www.humanservices.gov.au/corporate/.../families/35051

#275 llg

Posted 14 May 2012 - 06:55 AM

The problem will not be finding childcare as that is irrelevant since the youngest is 8.

Before and after school care will be a problem,  but one the government can fix by assigning extra staff where they are needed.  

The biggest problem will be age discrimination.   Many women and they will be mostly women,  who have waited until their youngest is 8 years old will be in their mid 40s going up to 50 years old and many will not get a job worth having simply because of age discrimination.   If the government wants women to return to the workforce after having families it has to seriously tackle this problem and the first step it can take in doing so is to stop anyone showing their age at an interview or a job application.  It can also stop any employer asking a person's age or using sneaky ways to find out a person's age, such as copying their license,  at a job interview or through the application.    No finding care will not be the reason many of these women will not find jobs,  it will be simple age discrimination.

Not everyone looks their age and a person should get a job based on their ability.  There are older workers who have been out of the workforce a while and the ability to get a traineeship for a few years would help them get back in and their are young workers who are really good at managing people and organising processes yet they are seen as not mature enough.    If a person's age was not shown I wonder how more accurately employers would choose their workforce.




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