Jump to content

non-vaccinated kids around a newborn


  • Please log in to reply
22 replies to this topic

#1 WaitForIt

Posted 23 April 2012 - 11:29 AM

This has been on my mind a lot, but has come to the forefront with the 'dear anti-vaxxer' thread.

My SIL doesn't vaccinate her kids as she is an anti-vaxxer. DH and I have a rocky relationship with her, anti-vax is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to her beliefs. I'm really uncomfortable with the idea of her visiting soon after our baby is born, but as she lives interstate it hopefully wont be too soon after the birth.

Sooner or later though, her and her kids will want to meet the baby. At what age (or point in the vax schedule) would be ok to have them visit? How much does each shot protect? Should I wait until 6 months? That will be just in the nick of time before Christmas.


#2 Soontobegran

Posted 23 April 2012 - 11:44 AM

It is a deal breaker to me. No newborn is knowlingly exposed to a non vaccinated child and no handling by the parents of an unvaccinated child until the baby has their first vaccination.
Good luck with this.

#3 suzy-c

Posted 23 April 2012 - 11:46 AM

I don't know, but you won't be able to keep un-vaccinated people away from your baby for long, as you will be taking them out in public. Unless you don't leave the house at all, and have no visitors in those 6 months you mentioned, you will come in contact with un-vaccinated people. That much isolation is almost impossible, given people will want to meet the baby.

My baby will be exposed to my un-vaccinated self every minute of the day. I can't help that, as I was hospitalised for months after my first vaccination as a baby. For their own safety, my baby will be immunised, just as my first son was. (He had no reaction to it at all.)

Edited by suzy-c, 23 April 2012 - 11:47 AM.


#4 Alina0210

Posted 23 April 2012 - 11:48 AM

I know alot of families and kids that dont vax... its such a non issue for me, usually non vaxers are more dilligent with keeping away if they are sick, have a runny nose or cold etc....

#5 Soontobegran

Posted 23 April 2012 - 11:51 AM

QUOTE (Alina0210 @ 23/04/2012, 11:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I know alot of families and kids that dont vax... its such a non issue for me, usually non vaxers are more dilligent with keeping away if they are sick, have a runny nose or cold etc....


Certainly not my experience I am afraid.

#6 tenar

Posted 23 April 2012 - 11:52 AM

It would be a deal breaker for me until the baby has at least had their first round of vaccinations.  Whooping cough is seriously scary for newborns.  

It's a straw man to suggest that you can't eliminate the risk therefore you should ignore it.  It's true that most of us can't entirely elminate the risk of contact with unvaccinated people, but we can dramatically reduce it by making sure that unvaccinated people don't handle our newborns.  I took my 9 month old back from a woman who was holding (uninvited - grr!) yesterday who I know doesn't vaccinate her son.  While at 9 months the risk of whooping cough being deadly is reduced, it certainly isn't eliminated, and its a risk I don't want to take.

OP I would stick to your guns about this.  Maybe your SIL will realise that her choices are endangering other people, especially in the context of the current whooping cough outbreak.

Good luck with managing to do it without much stress.

#7 Mummy Em

Posted 23 April 2012 - 11:54 AM

There was a threadwhere someone (I can't remember who) posted stats of the number of bubs that are immune to whooping cough after the first, second and third injections. I seem to remember that it was a little under half for the first one and around 80% (I think) by the third.

I don't know how long to keep them away, OP, I think it is a judgement call.

#8 Soontobegran

Posted 23 April 2012 - 11:58 AM

QUOTE (suzy-c @ 23/04/2012, 11:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't know, but you won't be able to keep un-vaccinated people away from your baby for long, as you will be taking them out in public. Unless you don't leave the house at all, and have no visitors in those 6 months you mentioned, you will come in contact with un-vaccinated people. That much isolation is almost impossible, given people will want to meet the baby.


Protecting your baby from the unvaccinated in the time preceeding the first vax does not mean you have to keep them enclosed within the 4 walls of the house. I've never felt the need to do that.
I don't think a baby is at risk at the shops for instance if in a sling or a pram and nobody coughs on it or touches it's little face.
The OP is talking about a visit to her home which I am certain would involve handling by a non vaccinated family. That is different IMO.

#9 Xiola

Posted 23 April 2012 - 12:48 PM

I was in a similar situation as you with a very close anit-vaxxing friend.  I also needed to do the school run everyday so had DD around lots of people straightaway.  I kept her in a wrap type sling so that she was close to me and all tucked up.  It stopped people trying to put their hands on her and no one asked if they could hold her which was great.  We had a whooping cough outbreak in our area around with DD was born so I was fairly paranoid about people touching her.

My anti-vaxxing friend stayed away for the first couple of months which was fantastic.  She was really understanding but I understand that not everyone is.  

Our Dr advised us that no unvaccinated person should hold DD until she'd had her third whooping couch vax which is around 6 months old.

#10 JustBeige

Posted 23 April 2012 - 12:54 PM

Can you get some literature from your doc that basically says she cant touch until whatever time. Or shows the risk factors.  That way she wont think you are singling her out, it will just be a blanket rule

#11 franklymum

Posted 23 April 2012 - 01:05 PM

Sigh. This topic comes up again and again.

OP, while i can understand your concern for you newborn the most important fact about anyone that comes into contact with your baby is this - whether they are sick or unwell.

Vaccinated and unvaccinated children and adults alike can all pass on something if they are currently contagious - people who are vaccinated still get sick. This includes the scary ones too like whooping cough. Vaccinated children both contract and pass on diseases even if they are perhaps not suffering a severe case of the disease because they've been vaccinated.

Sometimes the person doesn't know they are unwell because there are no symptoms - this can also be a problem for both vaccinated and unvaccinated children and adults and both have the possibility of passing something on.

The safest thing you can do is keep those who have a cough/feel unwell/might be coming down with something away from your newborn and take all the usual precautions.

I am not coming from a particular stance here - anti-vax or pro-vax, i am simply pointing out the logic of the situation. Goodluck and congratulations OP.

#12 Sif

Posted 23 April 2012 - 01:09 PM

Being unvaccinated is NOT the same as being disease ridden.

Being vaccinated is NOT the same as being immune.

When are people going to understand this.

Unless a vaccinated child or adult has had their immunity TESTED to PROVE they have developed immunity, they are a risk to a newborn.

If you are so afraid of your child catching a communicable disease, your best bet is to put the child in a bubble, that is the ONLY way to can ensure safety.

#13 WaitForIt

Posted 23 April 2012 - 01:37 PM

I don't have an all or nothing view on illness so the bubble wont be necessary.

Of course I would keep sick people away, whether vaccinated or not. Of course I will take my baby outside and in public. But there is a big difference between someone sitting over the way in a cafe to someone holding and snuggling for multiple days.

I'm not looking to prevent my child from getting any form of illness, just reduce the risk of catching the big ones.

#14 CallMeFeral

Posted 23 April 2012 - 01:51 PM

QUOTE (franklymum @ 23/04/2012, 01:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
[/b]Vaccinated and unvaccinated children and adults alike can all pass on something if they are currently contagious - people who are vaccinated still get sick. This includes the scary ones too like whooping cough. Vaccinated children both contract and pass on diseases even if they are perhaps not suffering a severe case of the disease because they've been vaccinated.


Yes this is an area I'm fuzzy about re: vaccinations - on the one hand I believe that a person, say, vaccinated against whooping cough, can still get sick from the virus, it just wouldn't be likely to progress to full blown whooping cough. So they could still have the virus to pass on.
But yet you do hear about the low immunity members of a community being protected by 'herd immunity' - how does that work if the virus is just as prevelant as otherwise, but just not so severe? How is it that some diseases have been virtually eliminated due to vaccinations - shouldn't they still be around, just without much symptom?

This is something I still don't understand regarding vaccinations. I suppose maybe it depends what sort of disease it is - like say smallpox/chickenpox, if you're immune you're immune, so it just doesn't hang around in your body at all - whereas whooping cough, the immunity thing kind of partially protects you, but you still can carry the virus - is that something like how it works?

#15 franklymum

Posted 23 April 2012 - 01:58 PM

OP, regarding your above reply i am honestly curious then what threat you think having a healthy (ie. not sick/coughing etc) unvaccinated child around your newborn poses? As i said i fully realize that people can be sick without showing any symptoms yet but that applies to both vaccinated and unvaccinated children (both of which can contract and pass along these diseases even if, perhaps, the disease is milder for the vaccinated child).

Again, i am not having a go and i appreciate your need to protect your child but i'd really be interested to know why you regard having a healthy non vaccinated child around as more threatening  than you would regard a healthy vaccinated one?

Edited by franklymum, 23 April 2012 - 02:01 PM.


#16 *mylittleprince*

Posted 23 April 2012 - 02:00 PM

I find this an interesting topic. 2 of my very close friends don't immunise. I see my one friend 3 times a week and other friend once a week. Also have an acquintace who doesn't vaccinate that we will start seeing quite often. I'm pregnant with twins and so worried about this.

I would feel strange asking them and their children not too touch (although maybe the adults would be immunised?).

So confusing to know what is right.

#17 SaintJoe

Posted 23 April 2012 - 02:08 PM

QUOTE (CallMeAl @ 23/04/2012, 02:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yes this is an area I'm fuzzy about re: vaccinations - on the one hand I believe that a person, say, vaccinated against whooping cough, can still get sick from the virus, it just wouldn't be likely to progress to full blown whooping cough. So they could still have the virus to pass on.
But yet you do hear about the low immunity members of a community being protected by 'herd immunity' - how does that work if the virus is just as prevelant as otherwise, but just not so severe? How is it that some diseases have been virtually eliminated due to vaccinations - shouldn't they still be around, just without much symptom?

This is something I still don't understand regarding vaccinations. I suppose maybe it depends what sort of disease it is - like say smallpox/chickenpox, if you're immune you're immune, so it just doesn't hang around in your body at all - whereas whooping cough, the immunity thing kind of partially protects you, but you still can carry the virus - is that something like how it works?


When you are vaxinated your body will build up antibodies to fight the disease if you come in contact with it. Then if the pathogen is ingested at a later state, symptoms may appear as your body is fighting it (this is why sometimes people get sick after the flu shot for example)  However, because the body has the appropraite antibodies it is able to fight it off at a relatively quicker rate.

Herd immunity protects communities as the disease is stop shorter at a much quicker rate. When individuals are immunised they are able to kill the pathogen and not spread the disease. Over time the disease is not as prevalent. Incubation periods will differ for various diseases, thus the ability to 'hang around' so to speak.  

Small pox has not been seen in the community since the late 70's.

#18 tenar

Posted 23 April 2012 - 02:30 PM


Just because both vaccinated and unvaccinated people can catch and pass on a given disease doesn't mean that they are equally likely to.  A vaccinated person has a high chance of being protected from that disease.  An unvaccinated person has no protection from that disease (unless they have already had it before, in which case their status is the same as if they were vaccinated.  

Non-vaccinated people are therefore a much higher risk to babies in this context, regardless of their reasons (good or not) for not vaccinating.  That doesn't mean vaccinated people pose no risk, of course they do, but the risk is significantly reduced.  

Of course sick people should not be around newborns and most people in the community would realise this as an obvious fact.  The problem isn't people with symptoms, it's people who are infectious but don't have any symptoms yet.  


#19 squirt081

Posted 23 April 2012 - 02:36 PM

QUOTE (soontobegran @ 23/04/2012, 11:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It is a deal breaker to me. No newborn is knowlingly exposed to a non vaccinated child and no handling by the parents of an unvaccinated child until the baby has their first vaccination.
Good luck with this.


This

Now my DD is  nearly 3yrs and DS 18mths I have no problems with non vaccinated ppl around them but not when they CANT have them cause they are to young.

Dont care who they are or what they say it's a big STAY AWAY.

#20 IShallWearMidnight

Posted 23 April 2012 - 03:01 PM

its cultural to have a 'confinement' or babymoon for us, so contact will be limited in the first month anyway.
ill be staying away from certain circles until bellyfruit has had the 6week shots, but will be going overseas at 6months old.

#21 Soontobegran

Posted 23 April 2012 - 05:19 PM

QUOTE (Sif @ 23/04/2012, 01:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Being unvaccinated is NOT the same as being disease ridden.

Being vaccinated is NOT the same as being immune.

When are people going to understand this.

Unless a vaccinated child or adult has had their immunity TESTED to PROVE they have developed immunity, they are a risk to a newborn.

If you are so afraid of your child catching a communicable disease, your best bet is to put the child in a bubble, that is the ONLY way to can ensure safety.



Please do not underestimate the ability of people to understand this? Why is that non vaxxers believe they are they only ones who 'educate' themselves.

I think it is being extremely facetious to suggest that someone should put their child in a bubble. sad.gif  I can't see anyone suggesting that it is 'lockdown' completely for the baby for 6 months.
Being vaccinated is not a presumption that one is immune but there is certainly an awful lot more chance of it being the case than if you are not!

The fact is that several babies have become critically ill or died in Australia in recent times because they have caught WC  because they are unable to be vaccinated in the first 8 weeks. If the parents and regular visitors to the baby are vaccinated and the baby is kept out of 'breathing shot' from the general public then the chances are reduced and if that is what you'd like to call 'bubble wrapping' then so be it!

Edited by soontobegran, 23 April 2012 - 05:20 PM.


#22 Lisy-lis

Posted 23 April 2012 - 05:31 PM

Sif -  I game to try to explain it for you, but unfortunately I can't understand it for you.....

Vaccination reduces the risk of communicable diseases.

Vaccination assists in protecting the unvaccinated, including newborns, from contracting diseases such as whooping cough.

Vaccination is responsible for the eradication of smallpox.

Vaccination is responsible for the huge reduction in polio, mumps, measles outbreaks.

Vaccination is not guaranteed, it is not 100%, it does not claim to be.

Mass vaccination is the single most successful public health program ever undertaken.



#23 Indatree

Posted 23 April 2012 - 05:32 PM

OP I would feel uncomfortable if I was in the same position, perhaps try and delay their visit for as long as possible.

Whooping cough in particular is a scary one and my next is due in winter so prime season for it. We have asked DH's elderly parents to be vaccinated and we will be too.

Take the steps you need to to feel okay about it. Good luck




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users

 

The day my daughter almost drowned

We had six adults standing there, so I felt like I could relax a bit. After all, what could go wrong with so much supervision?

Sydney siege survivor names baby after victim Katrina Dawson

A Sydney barrister who survived the Lindt cafe siege has named her newborn daughter after her best friend who died in the tragedy.

Banishing bloat

How to avoid a bloated tummy

Here are some foods to eat in order to escape feeling ghastly and gassy.

The great new picture book for anxious kids

My son is a worrier by nature. I learnt long ago that it was completely pointless to say to him "Don't worry about it!".

Budget stripped more than $15b from families

The combined impact of the two budgets for low and middle income people was "devastating", new analysis by the Australian Council of Social Service shows.

Pregnant women urged to get flu shots

As the winter chill starts to arrive, NSW Health is urging pregnant women to get their flu shots.

65-year-old gives birth to quadruplets

A 65-year-old German woman, who already has 13 children, has given birth to quadruplets.

What you need to know about pregnancy and health insurance

It's not just waiting periods that couples need to consider - there are other factors to consider when thinking about health insurance.

Yummy mummy

Nicole Trunfio breastfeeds baby on Elle magazine cover

Australian model Nicole Trunfio has taken the concept of multitasking to a fashionable new level for Elle Australia.

Warnings after baby girl died while sleeping in bouncer

Parents have been warned about the dangers of letting babies sleep in bouncers and swings following the death of a three-month-old girl.

Coping with fatigue as a parent

Sleep deprivation is a real hazard of caring for a baby. But there are ways to manage the challenges of fatigue better.

A very 21st century issue: parents, parks and smart phones

It's not all the parents, and it's not all the time, but there is often at least one doing it. And sometimes, that 'one' is me.

Appliances

Faulty washing machines linked to house fires

More than 80,000 faulty Samsung washing machines pose a fire threat in homes throughout Australia despite a nationwide recall of the machines.

'I had a lotus birth and I loved it'

Lotus birthing is not all that common, but for a number of women it feels like the most natural thing to do.

7 things you might not know about postnatal depression

Despite its widespread nature, there is still a great amount of mystery surrounding PND - and it's important to try unravelling as much of that as we can.

Is your family's car part of the world's biggest safety recall?

More than 50 million vehicles recalled for potentially lethal airbag fault - is your car affected?

Why drinking water can be deadly for babies

H2O is one of the necessities of life, but for babies a seemingly harmless amount of water can be fatal.

Mother-in-law faceplants during proposal

He had it all planned: a romantic proposal on a windswept beach. The whole family would be there so they'd all be able to celebrate the joyous moment together.

A preschooler suddenly goes mute - and it's not just shyness

When our son stopped talking, our sense of loss was painful and acute.

The mums who ask for a 'wife bonus'

They run their homes like domestic CEOs and work tirelessly to improve their family's social standing. And now, according to a new book, they want an annual perk from their husbands.

Woman shares photo of dimple on breast to warn others of cancer risk

A widely-shared Facebook photograph of a British woman's breast has raised awareness of a more subtle breast cancer symptom.

Starting a family despite a low sperm count

"I'd never really failed a test - how could I fail this particularly manly test?"

It's official: we must better protect our kids from toxic lead exposure

New guidelines have been released, aimed at reducing children's harmful exposure to lead. But they still don't go far enough.

Trouble-shooting toddler social skills

Chances are your toddler's behaviour is all completely normal - but here's how to tackle some common social problems.

Helping your first-born welcome a sibling

We did sigh with joy at the arrival of a royal princess - but, mostly, we sighed with pity at the sight of Prince George being taken to meet her.

Farewell, daytime nap

I've been in denial and I'm not too proud to beg, but it appears I must accept the fact that you have gone. I need to let you go.

The identical triplets who are one in 50 million

The father of identical triplets born in a Texas hospital says his three daughters, including conjoined twins, are "a miracle" sent by God.

Seven questions you should be asking about your health cover

If the last time you assessed your health cover was five years ago, there?s a chance it may no longer suit your needs. To ensure it?s still right for your family, click here for seven questions to ask.

 
Advertisement
 
Advertisement
 
 
 

What's hot on EB

How to use gas effectively in labour

Many women in labour don't use gas effectively and suffer more side effects than benefits. Here's how to get the most out of this pain relief option.

'He has gastro but that's okay, right?': sick kid etiquette

We cannot place all children who are sick in a bubble till they recover, but we can give other parents a choice about exposing their kids to them.

Welcome to Winter

Now that the colder months are here, Essential Baby as all the information you need for staying healthy and happy during the chilly season.

Ada Nicodemou: 'I can never be completely happy again'

Home and Away actress Ada Nicodemou has opened up about the loss of her stillborn baby.

10 things to consider when you're thinking about trying for a baby

Before you start tracking your menstrual cycle and reading up on the best positions to get pregnant, there are a few other things you may want to consider.

How special surgery and IVF can create a post-vasectomy baby

Cricket legend Glenn McGrath and his second wife Sara are expecting their first child together, thanks to IVF and a delicate surgical sperm retrieval process that helped the couple to conceive.

Belle Gibson's mother 'disgusted and embarrassed'

The mother of disgraced wellness blogger Belle Gibson has accused her daughter of lying about her childhood in an attempt to garner public sympathy.

Doctor's mobile phone 'left inside c-section mum'

A new mum claims a doctor left his mobile phone inside her after delivering her baby via caesarean section.

I'm a mum and I'm following my dreams

I want my kids to know that no matter what happens in life, you can still be who it is that you've always wanted to be.

Those first daycare days

I had this innate 'mum' moment the other day.

'If one person had listened, my life would have been so different'

Katherine's father will die in prison for the horrifying sexual abuse of his daughter. Yet she is the one with the true life sentence.

This new plan undermines breastfeeding and baby health at everyone's expense

Mothers, babies, the health system and the wider society are going to pay the price of this new budget.

Couple to celebrate terminally ill baby's birthday in unique way

Baby Jai Bishop has lived at Starship Hospital for the past seven months, with his parents flying back and forth from Hokitika, 1100km away, to be by his side.

Life On Mars

It's men who need 'retraining', not women

We are all responsible for our own behaviour. Telling victims to harden up is wrong.

Baby Gammy's dad tries to claim charity money

The biological father of baby Gammy has reportedly tried to access charity money raised for the little boy's medical costs.

Where are the childcare places?

It?s all very well to encourage women to work if they choose to, but how can the measures lead to increased workforce participation when women are once again left holding the baby?

The pain of not having babies and not knowing why

After seven years of wishing, hoping, crying, punching pillows and shouting "why me?!", the end result is more than I ever thought possible.

Getting your family finances in order

Whether you're after a new car for a growing family, a bigger house, or are just fixing up your finances, here are the basics on borrowing.

Mum shares graphic selfie to warn against tanning

A mum has shared a graphic photo of her skin cancer treatment as a warning to others.

Does parenthood make us happier?

We can certainly gain higher levels of happiness when we become parents, but the trick is to not get overwhelmed by the pressures of raising our kids.

No, having a dog is not like having a human child

It's obvious these people dote on their pets, but they're barking up the wrong tree.

 

Top baby names

Baby Names

The numbers are in and we can now bring you the 2014 top baby name list for Australia.

 
Advertisement
 
 
Essential Baby and Essential Kids is the place to find parenting information and parenting support relating to conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids, maternity, family budgeting, family travel, nutrition and wellbeing, family entertainment, kids entertainment, tips for the family home, child-friendly recipes and parenting. Try our pregnancy due date calculator to determine your due date, or our ovulation calculator to predict ovulation and your fertile period. Our pregnancy week by week guide shows your baby's stages of development. Access our very active mum's discussion groups in the Essential Baby forums or the Essential Kids forums to talk to mums about conception, pregnancy, birth, babies, toddlers, kids and parenting lifestyle. Essential Baby also offers a baby names database of more than 22,000 baby names, popular baby names, boys' names, girls' names and baby names advice in our baby names forum. Essential Kids features a range of free printable worksheets for kids from preschool years through to primary school years. For the latest baby clothes, maternity clothes, maternity accessories, toddler products, kids toys and kids clothing, breastfeeding and other parenting resources, check out Essential Baby and Essential Kids.