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Dear anti-vaxxer...


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#151 FuzzyMum

Posted 29 April 2012 - 09:24 AM

QUOTE
QUOTE (Bek+3 @ 29/04/2012, 09:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There are double standards and this hypothetical thread you speak of probably would be shut down. FF'ers are 'protected' despite the research and evidence which supports human milk for human babies. You would not be allowed to call a FF those things and I think the same should apply to this topic also (on both sides) dispute differences in opinion.



Which double standards are you referring to? However if there is any post that you feel breaches the rules, bring them to the attention of the mods.

I would be interested in links to the research showing protection of breastfeeding against polio etc. You know to the point of not requiring vaccinations.

#152 B.3

Posted 29 April 2012 - 09:29 AM

Fuzzymum, if you are going to quote me, please actually read what I said. *Sigh*

QUOTE
Which double standards are you referring to? However if there is any post that you feel breaches the rules, bring them to the attention of the mods.


I said if there were a HYPOTHETICAL thread.

QUOTE
I would be interested in links to the research showing protection of breastfeeding against polio etc. You know to the point of not requiring vaccinations.


I don't know of any. I specifically said that I DID NOT agree with PP point of view.

#153 dadathome

Posted 29 April 2012 - 10:32 AM

Whilst I am absolutely pro-vaccination, I don't agree with using terms such as "idiot" or "stupid" to describe anti-vaccinators, either here or by Stop the AVN (I am a member of ther SAVN facebook group).

However, given the extensive and overwhelming scientific evidence, I belive that it is absolutely valid to describe anti-vaccinators as irrational on this issue.

#154 soontobegran

Posted 29 April 2012 - 10:41 AM

QUOTE (MadameCatty @ 29/04/2012, 09:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Vaccinating is also a personal decision.  And not b'feeding does affect the larger community.  The many benefits of b'feeding mean less health problems, which means less sick kids, which means less hospital resources used... so no, I can't see the difference.


Vaccinating is actually not just a personal decision. Nobody would need to vaccinate if they didn't live in a community.

There is no place for a breast versus formula debate in a vaccination thread.


Edited to say that I have never called an anti vaxxer stupid or idiotic or any other such thing. I actually find the word frustrating and naive more apt descriptions.

Edited by soontobegran, 29 April 2012 - 10:44 AM.


#155 Great Dame

Posted 29 April 2012 - 11:49 AM

QUOTE (FuzzyMum @ 29/04/2012, 10:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I would be interested in links to the research showing protection of breastfeeding against polio etc. You know to the point of not requiring vaccinations.


Who said that, where?  I said "maybe" if more mothers were b'feeding we wouldn't need to rely on vaccinations.  A possibility, a maybe.  

QUOTE (FuzzyMum @ 29/04/2012, 10:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
However if there is any post that you feel breaches the rules, bring them to the attention of the mods.


Since a Mod has been actively posting in this thread, I assume it's ok to name call.

QUOTE (soontobegran @ 29/04/2012, 11:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Edited to say that I have never called an anti vaxxer stupid or idiotic or any other such thing. I actually find the word frustrating and naive more apt descriptions.


No but you were active in a thread where it was said.  I've seen you call out someone for less.

#156 purplekitty

Posted 29 April 2012 - 03:23 PM

QUOTE (MadameCatty @ 29/04/2012, 11:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Who said that, where?  I said "maybe" if more mothers were b'feeding we wouldn't need to rely on vaccinations.  A possibility, a maybe.
Before vaccination, women breastfed. Many more babies,children and adults died and suffered morbidity in epidemics from vaccine preventable diseases.
I don't see how it's even a possibility.
Please explain why you do.



#157 MegsW

Posted 29 April 2012 - 04:18 PM

And seeing you were directing your post at me MadameCatty - I still stand by what I wrote.  I have seen many more cases in my personal life of those that are affected by the diseases and have never come across anyone that has been affected by vaccinations.  I know it happens, but it is very rare, whilst the morbitity rate due to disease is climbing the less people vaccinate.

I never called anyone an idiot as well so I don't appreciate you calling me an idiot thanks all the same.

Oh and I have bfed all of my 5 children thanks very much and I still understand the necessity to vaccinate my healthy children to protect both them and those in our community who can't be!

#158 FuzzyMum

Posted 29 April 2012 - 05:49 PM

QUOTE
QUOTE (Bek+3 @ 29/04/2012, 09:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fuzzymum, if you are going to quote me, please actually read what I said. *Sigh*



I said if there were a HYPOTHETICAL thread.



I don't know of any. I specifically said that I DID NOT agree with PP point of view.




Well Bek+3

let me quote you

QUOTE
QUOTE (Bek+3 @ 29/04/2012, 09:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't agree with your anti vax POV but I do agree with this.

There  are double standards and this hypothetical thread you speak of probably  would be shut down. FF'ers are 'protected' despite the research and  evidence which supports human milk for human babies. You would not be  allowed to call a FF those things and I think the same should apply to  this topic also (on both sides) dispute differences in opinion.



I think you do need to read your own post again. I made no reference to your stance on vaccinations, it was your agreement with MC's post about breastfeeding. Hypothetical maybe but your opinion is very clear. You also don't have any evidence to back up this statement.

Again, you made the inference that some posters are somehow being protected. I'll repeat, if you think something is in breach of the rules then follow the procedure. If you've done this and been ignored then complain. Until then, if it bugs you so much then close the thread.

Edited by FuzzyMum, 29 April 2012 - 05:58 PM.


#159 FuzzyMum

Posted 29 April 2012 - 05:55 PM

QUOTE
QUOTE (MadameCatty @ 29/04/2012, 08:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I did say it to be contrary but in a way I did mean it STBG.  Breastfeeding can protect against many illnesses (I know WC is not one) and since it seems acceptable to rant and rave at parents who choose not to vaccinate because they have concerns, I think it's relevant to also bring up breastfeeding.


MC, it doesn't seem to be a 'throw-away' line as you put it. As you asked, I was referring to another pp's post which was in agreement with yours. However as you raised this point, I do think you need to link to evidence even if it's a 'maybe'. No evidence, then it's just your opinion.

I just don't see how decisions to feed babies are relevant to a discussion on vaccinations.

Edited by FuzzyMum, 29 April 2012 - 05:59 PM.


#160 B.3

Posted 29 April 2012 - 06:01 PM

Good grief, what are you on about!!!  wacko.gif

QUOTE
Hypothetical maybe but your opinion is very clear. So you have nothing to back it up.


I didn't say there was a relationship between breastfeeding and immunity to diseases that can be vaccinated against!!!!!!!!! In turn I have NOTHING to back it up!!!  ddoh.gif rolleyes.gif  

The PP was saying how it would not be fair game to call FF'ing mothers in another thread idiots despite breastmilk being better for babies and I agreed with her. If there were a thread about FF'ing it would be shut down if those things were said. I also said that no one should be calling each other in this thread idiots either.

If you are going to critically analyse, read posts both carefully and in context to the previous posts.

efs

Edited by Bek+3, 29 April 2012 - 06:07 PM.


#161 Therese

Posted 29 April 2012 - 06:28 PM

I have just been through and edited some posts. It isn't appropriate to call people names on EB and there was one post before I posted that did so and I missed it. I apologise for that.

The next post that was name calling was after I left the thread and I didn't come back till now.  

There is the report button to use, and so I ask that if you think a moderator has missed something that you use it.

Thanks.

#162 FuzzyMum

Posted 29 April 2012 - 06:28 PM

QUOTE (Bek+3 @ 29/04/2012, 06:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Good grief, what are you on about!!!  wacko.gif



I didn't say there was a relationship between breastfeeding and immunity to diseases that can be vaccinated against!!!!!!!!! In turn I have NOTHING to back it up!!!  ddoh.gif  rolleyes.gif


This Bek+3 which you quoted. Considering you have agreed with a post as indicated here that other pp's have perceived the same way as I have. The one below you have quoted and included. This particular pp was making the inference. Follow the posts leading up to it as well for context if you aren't too clear about it.

QUOTE
I did say it to be contrary but in a way I did mean it STBG.   Breastfeeding can protect against many illnesses (I know WC is not one)  and since it seems acceptable to rant and rave at parents who choose not  to vaccinate because they have concerns, I think it's relevant to also  bring up breastfeeding.  If you are asking parents to go against their  own personal beliefs to protect the greater community, can I not ask the  same?  Or is breastfeeding off limits?


Sure people can ask the question re breastfeeding, just seems strange in a thread about vaccinations unless you're actually making a point re breastfeeding providing protection or to somehow claim bias on the part of the mods. While we're discussing this, I'm just interested, who actually has used the term 'idiots'? I must have missed it as it doesn't seem to be used extensively.

Edited by FuzzyMum, 29 April 2012 - 06:31 PM.


#163 B.3

Posted 29 April 2012 - 06:38 PM

You're still going.  oomg.gif  oomg.gif You're pulling my leg right?  huh.gif  laughing2.gif


QUOTE (FuzzyMum @ 29/04/2012, 06:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This Bek+3 which you quoted. Considering you have agreed with a post as indicated here that other pp's have perceived the same way as I have.


No one has perceived it the same way you have. You're the only one. Now you are imagining posts.  laugh.gif


QUOTE (FuzzyMum @ 29/04/2012, 06:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sure people can ask the question re breastfeeding, just seems strange in a thread about vaccinations unless you're actually making a point re breastfeeding providing protection or to somehow claim bias on the part of the mods.


AGAIN, (third time lucky hopefully) I was not talking about breastfeeding AT ALL. I was agreeing that you could not call FF mothers idiots so people should not call each other idiots here either. Honestly, why don't you just go back and actually read.  ddoh.gif

QUOTE (FuzzyMum @ 29/04/2012, 06:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
While we're discussing this, I'm just interested, who actually has used the term 'idiots'? I must have missed it as it doesn't seem to be used extensively.

They have been deleted at various points throughout the day. PLEASE READ THE MODERATORS POST PREVIOUS TO THE ONE YOU JUST MADE.

Edited by Bek+3, 29 April 2012 - 06:42 PM.


#164 FuzzyMum

Posted 29 April 2012 - 07:21 PM

QUOTE
QUOTE (Bek+3 @ 29/04/2012, 06:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're still going.  oomg.gif  oomg.gif You're pulling my leg right?  huh.gif  laughing2.gif




No one has perceived it the same way you have. You're the only one. Now you are imagining posts.  laugh.gif




AGAIN, (third time lucky hopefully) I was not talking about breastfeeding AT ALL. I was agreeing that you could not call FF mothers idiots so people should not call each other idiots here either. Honestly, why don't you just go back and actually read.  ddoh.gif


They have been deleted at various points throughout the day. PLEASE READ THE MODERATORS POST PREVIOUS TO THE ONE YOU JUST MADE.



Settle petal. No need to get so frustrated nor insulting. Sorry to say you just don't understand my posts. Perhaps you overlooked the ones I was referring to and the poster you were agreeing with. Tried to explain it. You just can't see it. Just remember that while you may not have intended to, perception does count. Just a word of advice, when quoting a poster in order to agree with something specific that they have said which is part of an ongoing discussion, it's best to include only the parts you wish to agree with. You may not realise it but you have agreed with MC's comments in relation to breastfeeding which were disputed by a few pps (you can find these still in the thread). It was because of the first line you left in the quote. Pedantic, yes, but still important. If you simply wanted to discuss the name calling factor, then do so. Don't leave yourself open for interpretation. I probably do need to explain it further but I don't somehow think you would be receptive to it nor do I have the time. Never mind. Just don't feel the need to use emoticons to illustrate. Hope you have a nice evening. If it makes you feel any better I don't agree with name calling either. However I do find it ironic that while criticising the use of name calling that you would use emoticons in the way you have when aimed at me. But then again, it's my perception.

FWIW: I have been following this thread for quite a while. Possibly for longer than you have. I certainly didn't see the extensive usage of 'idiots' as claimed. Ok, maybe once. So, I think my knowledge of this thread is up to date.

Edited by FuzzyMum, 29 April 2012 - 08:04 PM.


#165 Henndigo

Posted 29 April 2012 - 07:55 PM

QUOTE (MadameCatty @ 29/04/2012, 09:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Vaccinating is also a personal decision.  And not b'feeding does affect the larger community.  The many benefits of b'feeding mean less health problems, which means less sick kids, which means less hospital resources used... so no, I can't see the difference.


Vaccination is NOT a personal, standalone decision that has no impact on others outside of your family, I think you would struggle to argue otherwise as you'd be going against basic science.  I know it's hard to hear but your choices do affect others and especially families who have immune compromised children who will not be able to fight a greater incidence of vaccine preventable disease in the community.  

Breastfeeding or lack of only affects others in the community beyond the child not breastfed in so far as slightly raising taxation and perhaps a mildly increased waiting time at the hospital.  If my child however caught a preventable disease that made him deaf, brain damaged, unable to walk the impact is a lot more hard hitting, life changing and personal.



#166 Great Dame

Posted 29 April 2012 - 08:02 PM

FuzzyMum, Bec made it quite clear she didn't agree with me but rather the point I was trying to illustrate about the tone of the thread.  Her opening line went something like, "I don't agree with you however....."

Henndigo, good point.

#167 FuzzyMum

Posted 29 April 2012 - 08:17 PM

QUOTE
QUOTE (MadameCatty @ 29/04/2012, 08:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

FuzzyMum, Bec made it quite clear she didn't agree with me but rather the point I was trying to illustrate about the tone of the thread.  Her opening line went something like, "I don't agree with you however....."

Henndigo, good point.




Madame Catty, I explained myself further in my post. I understand that Bek+3 doesn't agree with your stance on vaccinations. What I was pointing out was the first line that she retained in your post which she quoted. This was relating to a comment you made that was criticised by some pps about breastfeeding and immunity against diseases (as this is a thread about vaccinations against life threatening diseases). By including this I perceived this as agreeing with your statement in addition to the name calling argument. She however did not understand what I was getting at.

#168 BlondieUK

Posted 29 April 2012 - 10:56 PM

QUOTE (MadameCatty @ 29/04/2012, 07:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Vaccinating is also a personal decision.  And not b'feeding does affect the larger community.  The many benefits of b'feeding mean less health problems, which means less sick kids, which means less hospital resources used... so no, I can't see the difference.


Quite frankly, if you chose to FF your child, you don't put my health, or the health of my children at risk.

Comparing not breastfeeding to not vaccinating is like comparing having a glass of wine before driving to drinking the whole bottle and then ordering another......

#169 B.3

Posted 29 April 2012 - 11:02 PM

QUOTE (FuzzyMum @ 29/04/2012, 08:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
She however did not understand what I was getting at.


I understood exactly what you were getting at. You didn't understand what I was getting at when I told you repeatedly to go back and re-read.  biggrin.gif


#170 FuzzyMum

Posted 29 April 2012 - 11:09 PM

QUOTE
QUOTE (Bek+3 @ 29/04/2012, 11:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I understood exactly what you were getting at. You didn't understand what I was getting at when I told you repeatedly to go back and re-read.  biggrin.gif




Actually, no you still don't as you would have phrased your posts in a way that were less insulting. Perhaps I thought you were trying to cover your opinion. Who knows. I don't know you personally, I only have the way you have phrased your posts to go on. I do start to wonder when emoticons are used in such a descriptive way. But hey, let's find some common ground and agree to disagree. There, a nice end. No emoticon needed.

Edited by FuzzyMum, 29 April 2012 - 11:22 PM.


#171 B.3

Posted 29 April 2012 - 11:22 PM

cool.gif

#172 FuzzyMum

Posted 29 April 2012 - 11:29 PM

QUOTE
QUOTE (Bek+3 @ 29/04/2012, 11:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

cool.gif




Ahhhh. You made me laugh. Let's hug and make up.




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