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Hospital may not offer sterilisation, termination
New Midland (WA) Health Campus run by SJOG


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#1 Mummy Em

Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:19 PM

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/wa/13...oing-male-snip/

QUOTE
SJGHC is the preferred operator of the planned $360 million Midland Health
Campus, which will have 367 public and private beds when it opens in 2015. It
said yesterday it could not comment on what services would be provided until
negotiations with the State Government were finalised.

But a spokeswoman for
the North Metropolitan Area Health Service said if a contract was reached with
the health group, it was expected services such pregnancy terminations,
sterilisation and contraception procedures would not be provided at the
hospital.



What do you think, should religious organisations running public hospital services be permitted to not offer certain services, as per their religious views?

Edited by Mummy Em, 14 April 2012 - 12:20 PM.


#2 Fenrir

Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:26 PM

No.

If they are accepting public funding then they should offer services that the public may want. After all, an early induction under so many weeks would be classed as a pregnancy termination would it not ? Surely an emergency hysterectomy would be classed as sterilisation? Even a voluntary hysterectomy?

There is a difference between not offering because you don't have the facilities and not offering because you don't think they should happen at all.



#3 LittleListen

Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:26 PM

Yes. They aren't pretending that they are going to and then refuse the service. I figure if they come right out and say it, then so be it.

An Islamic, Greek Orthodox, or Jewish school wouldn't suffer a teacher suddenly teaching from the Anglican Prayer book. I don't see how a hospital service administered by a religious group is any different to a hospital. The doctor agreed not to perform those kinds of surgeries when taking the job. If they didn't want to uphold those ideals, then work in a different hospital.

#4 Guest_tigerdog_*

Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:27 PM

In a word, no.  But I guess it depends what was in the tender (if a tender process was used) - obviously if they've won the contract they have the means to provide all the services required under the contract.  I don't believe in religious organisations deviating into healthcare and other non-related service areas anyway.

When I was at one of the public hospitals in Canberra having my last baby the doctor refused to discuss contraception with me as he wasn't allowed to as the hospital is run by a Catholic organisation (in my books this constituted neglect of the hospital's duty of care to myself as the patient).

#5 EsmeLennox

Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:27 PM

When they are a private enterprise, they can yes (even though I think it's ridiculous).

However, given that this is a public hospital for all intents and purposes I think it really muddies the waters. When it comes to public health I don't think religion should come into it, so I think these services should be offered at the hospital.

#6 EsmeLennox

Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:30 PM

QUOTE (eyesabove @ 14/04/2012, 10:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yes. They aren't pretending that they are going to and then refuse the service. I figure if they come right out and say it, then so be it.

An Islamic, Greek Orthodox, or Jewish school wouldn't suffer a teacher suddenly teaching from the Anglican Prayer book. I don't see how a hospital service administered by a religious group is any different to a hospital. The doctor agreed not to perform those kinds of surgeries when taking the job. If they didn't want to uphold those ideals, then work in a different hospital.


It's different because the situation of the schools you refer to are private enterprise, as are private hospitals, the hospital in question here though is a public hospital being run by private enterprise with government money, healthcare for all, equality and all that.

Edited by Jemstar, 14 April 2012 - 12:31 PM.


#7 LynnyP

Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:31 PM

I think a religious organisation should be able to do what they wish within the boundaries of their religion.

I also think that there should be minimum requirements to be eligible for geting Medicare money and one of those should be conception/termination services.

#8 Soontobegran

Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:33 PM

Whilst I don't have to agree with their stance they of course have a right to decide what services they will provide. Same as religious schools are within their rights to insist on teaching scripture to it's pupils.

There are always other institutions which will perform these procedures and IME they will always refer on.


#9 LittleListen

Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:36 PM

QUOTE (tigerdog @ 14/04/2012, 12:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
In a word, no.  But I guess it depends what was in the tender (if a tender process was used) - obviously if they've won the contract they have the means to provide all the services required under the contract.  I don't believe in religious organisations deviating into healthcare and other non-related service areas anyway.


The concept of public healthcare was introduced to modern society by religious people. Today's religion-in-health-care simply mirrors what the major world religions have always taught about caring for others. The issue here is funding. If the services they are refusing to offer were specified in the tender they wouldn't have won it.  


QUOTE (Jemstar @ 14/04/2012, 12:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It's different because the situation of the schools you refer to are private enterprise, as are private hospitals, the hospital in question here though is a public hospital being run by private enterprise with government money, healthcare for all, equality and all that.


True, however all of these schools also receive public funding, as to private hospitals.

#10 LynnyP

Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:37 PM

Religious schools can teach scripture and get public funding but they can't refuse to teach science and get public funding.

#11 Soontobegran

Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:42 PM

QUOTE (Beautiful Warlock @ 14/04/2012, 12:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No.

If they are accepting public funding then they should offer services that the public may want. After all, an early induction under so many weeks would be classed as a pregnancy termination would it not ? Surely an emergency hysterectomy would be classed as sterilisation? Even a voluntary hysterectomy?

There is a difference between not offering because you don't have the facilities and not offering because you don't think they should happen at all.



Of course emergency surgery that involves hysterectomy will be done. Voluntary hysterectomy for medical reasons are also done!
It results in the woman being sterile but she is not being sterilised with the view of preventing further pregnancy.

Early induction if the reason is to save the mother's life is also performed in Catholic run hospitals, they will not do them to cause the death of a healthy baby in utero.

Most religious facilities like hospitals, schools, aged care etc receive public funding. I can't see us expecting them to change their philosophies because a portion of their income is from the public purse.

#12 Guest_tigerdog_*

Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:44 PM

QUOTE
The concept of public healthcare was introduced to modern society by religious people. Today's religion-in-health-care simply mirrors what the major world religions have always taught about caring for others.


It seems we agree in principle but do you have any evidence of the above?  It seems like a gross generalisation - religious people don't have the monopoly on caring!  But I guess what I meant was that religious organisations shouldn't be involved in the public system (as in the OP) as they have views which might preclude certain services being offered to the public.

Nor do I believe they should be involved in profit-making private enterprise (those greedy churches!), although at least in that case they would have the freedom to offer what they like and people can choose to take it or not.  In the public system those without the means don't have any other option and as a PP stated, religion shouldn't come into it.

Edited by tigerdog, 14 April 2012 - 12:48 PM.


#13 Oriental lily

Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:51 PM

In my area we are seriously lacking a public or even a private general hospital.

If an announcement came that public funded hospital was being built but would lack these essential services due to religious beliefs then I would be fuming.

If it was totally private run then that's their choice. As soon as the public dollar is being spent then religious views and choices should be binned.

You can not compare to schooling. There is a accessible public schooling to nearly all regions of Australia.

The same can not be said for health care.



#14 Ruf~Feral~es

Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:52 PM

QUOTE (tigerdog @ 14/04/2012, 10:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It seems we agree in principle but do you have any evidence of the above?  It seems like a gross generalisation - religious people don't have the monopoly on caring!



No, but they do have a track record of running "caring" organisations, more so than Government or private sector organisations.  There is a reason why so many religious organisations are involved in charities and community organisations - because no one else is doing it.  (Again, in general.  Obviously there are also non-religious affiliated charities too, before someone jumps on this).

I see this as the Government wanting their cake and eating it too.  They prefer someone else to run the hospital, as it is cheaper for them.  They open it to tender - and give the tender to the best choice.... The Catholic church make no secret of their policy to not perform certain procedures, but get the tender anyway.

Is it then the Church's fault?  For me, the blame lies with the Government for giving them the tender in the first place.  

And as STBG pointed out, they will undertake many of these procedures.  If a termination is life saving (physically or psychologically) it would be performed.  Same with a hysterectomy.  But they won't do tubal ligations or vasectomies.  Fair enough.

If the Government cares enough about it's people to want them to have access to contraceptive services and abortions at this hospital, they will need to run it themselves or give the tender to someone else.  Don't blame the Catholic Church for the Governments funding decision.

*Disclaimer - whilst I am a Catholic, I also support a woman's right to choose, gay marriage, and many other things the church denounces.*


#15 Ruf~Feral~es

Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:54 PM

QUOTE
Nor do I believe they should be involved in profit-making private enterprise


I think you will find that under the strictures of their "not for profit" and "Charitable organisation" status, they do not actually make a profit.  They put profits back into service provision.  Which is why Governments like them to run these services for them.

#16 Soontobegran

Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:55 PM

QUOTE (Oriental lily @ 14/04/2012, 12:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
In my area we are seriously lacking a public or even a private general hospital.

If an announcement came that public funded hospital was being built but would lack these essential services due to religious beliefs then I would be fuming.

If it was totally private run then that's their choice. As soon as the public dollar is being spent then religious views and choices should be binned.

You can not compare to schooling. There is a accessible public schooling to nearly all regions of Australia.

The same can not be said for health care.



It is most unusual for hospitals that come under a religious umbrella to be built in areas where it is the only choice.

The public coffers fund very many things I will never utilise or agree with.....that is the way it is!



#17 Guest_tigerdog_*

Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:59 PM

QUOTE
There is a reason why so many religious organisations are involved in charities and community organisations - because no one else is doing it.


Not necessarily.  IME working in the community sector, large religious organisations have the edge over smaller, just as (if not more so!) caring organisations in winning tenders from Government as their overheads are lower and they can shift $$ between their different programs - this doesn't necssarily mean they can do a better job, sometimes Peter is robbing Paul and creative accounting allows them to deliver a bare-bones service for next to nothing while still satisfying the terms of the contract.

Edited by tigerdog, 14 April 2012 - 12:59 PM.


#18 Oriental lily

Posted 14 April 2012 - 01:04 PM

It would be interesting to know if te demands for these services are easily being met in the public sector in midlands.

Ultimately this would determine how I felt if I was living in that region.

#19 JRA

Posted 14 April 2012 - 01:06 PM

I think if they are running a public hospital it should offer the services required at a public hospital.

They can get away with it if running a private hospital, but public is different

#20 Jane Jetson

Posted 14 April 2012 - 01:07 PM

QUOTE (tigerdog @ 14/04/2012, 12:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
When I was at one of the public hospitals in Canberra having my last baby the doctor refused to discuss contraception with me as he wasn't allowed to as the hospital is run by a Catholic organisation (in my books this constituted neglect of the hospital's duty of care to myself as the patient).


That makes two of us.

A blanket denial of particular aspects of health care, based upon religious beliefs which may not be held by these patients, is completely inappropriate. Doubly so where there is limited access to public hospitals due to distance.

#21 M1B2G

Posted 14 April 2012 - 01:08 PM

Given this hospital is replacing Swan Districts which is one of the main public maternity hospitals North of the River in Perth I do hope that while they may contract out the ability to manage the hospital it should provide the same public services available now...

I know a heap of my friends who have had their children at Swan Districts but I am unsure whether it currently offers some of the services mentioned...  

I birthed at the nearest private hospital which is catholic so I understood clearly that some of the services mentioned would not be available as they were not supported by their religious faith....

Edited by LKandsoontobe3, 14 April 2012 - 01:10 PM.


#22 purplekitty

Posted 14 April 2012 - 01:15 PM

It is wrong when religious doctrine interferes in the professional duty staff have to their patient.

Last year a Catholic hospital stopped oncologists from giving contraceptive advice to patients having cancer treatment with a thalidomide derivative which can cause birth defects.
My taxes should never support that.


#23 munchmum

Posted 14 April 2012 - 01:21 PM

Tigerdog, gingermeg i had the same experience as did others I know. Completely inappropriate given that advice on contraception was withheld whilst advising not to get pregnant for a year for medical reasons.

#24 Feralishous

Posted 14 April 2012 - 01:21 PM

i think a private hospital should offer the services it chooses to.
like stbg said they wont refuse livesaving procedures,  they just wont voluntarily end life.

#25 MrsNorris

Posted 14 April 2012 - 01:29 PM

I'm confused. Why would teh government award the contract to a health provider if the health provider cannot provide the services that the government has deemed important?  






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